Re: [bitcoin-dev] 7 Theses on a next step for BIP-119

2022-04-21 Thread Greg Sanders via bitcoin-dev
Ironically assumptions of bad faith are going to kill any proposal, resulting in the status quo. Let's keep the assumption of good faith, unless you are actually accusing people of being a NSA-adjacent asset. On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:08 AM alicexbt via bitcoin-dev <

Re: [bitcoin-dev] 7 Theses on a next step for BIP-119

2022-04-21 Thread alicexbt via bitcoin-dev
> There are a number of individuals who have stated opposition to attempting to > activate a CTV soft fork in the near term: > > https://gist.github.com/michaelfolkson/352a503f4f9fc5de89af528d86a1b718 sheshek found some issues with the list and some of them are not really an opposition for CTV.

Re: [bitcoin-dev] 7 Theses on a next step for BIP-119

2022-04-21 Thread Zac Greenwood via bitcoin-dev
On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 at 15:49, Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: Assuming 90 percent of miners don't signal for it in one of the Speedy > Trial windows then the activation attempt will have failed and it will be > back in Jeremy's court whether he

Re: [bitcoin-dev] 7 Theses on a next step for BIP-119

2022-04-21 Thread Robin Linus via bitcoin-dev
Hi Michael, Sorry, if my critique of your opinions feels too personal to you. This is nothing personal. As you probably know, one of the most effective attack vectors on Bitcoin is to target the social layer by sabotaging the protocol development[1]. Bike shedding is an easy way to cause a lot

Re: [bitcoin-dev] 7 Theses on a next step for BIP-119

2022-04-21 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
Hi Michael, I'm sympathetic to the idea of allowing time for the community to absorb, review, analyze, discuss, etc any new substantial change to bitcoin, especially consensus changes. I certainly think that over time the frequency of soft forks should generally go down on average, with

Re: [bitcoin-dev] 7 Theses on a next step for BIP-119

2022-04-20 Thread Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev
Ok last one. Whatever you say and whatever personal attacks you come up with I'm not responding after this one :) > Where can I see the use cases you have built out in recent years? Do you have > a writeup in which you compare CTV to existing covenant enabling proposals? > Do you have a strong

Re: [bitcoin-dev] 7 Theses on a next step for BIP-119

2022-04-20 Thread Robin Linus via bitcoin-dev
Hi Michael, Thank you for your reply. You wrote: > I have a better (and safer) way forward which is to continue to build out use > cases of CTV, convince the community it is the best tool for the job > (whatever use case(s) that is), compare it to other existing covenant > enabling proposals

Re: [bitcoin-dev] 7 Theses on a next step for BIP-119

2022-04-20 Thread Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev
Hi Robin I was in two minds to respond because I feel I am just repeating myself from previous emails to this list [1], [2], [3]. I'm not sure whether you have read those posts or are just blocking them out because you disagree with them. I also don't think much (anything?) has changed since I

Re: [bitcoin-dev] 7 Theses on a next step for BIP-119

2022-04-20 Thread Robin Linus via bitcoin-dev
Dear Michael, Firstly, I think it is great that you do share enthusiasm for "vaults, eltoo constructions, payment pools etc". Many people see covenants (or covenant-like features) as one of the most important upgrades currently in the pipe line because it enables so many important use cases

Re: [bitcoin-dev] 7 Theses on a next step for BIP-119

2022-04-20 Thread Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev
> The client has a Speedy trial release similar to Taproots with parameters > proposed to be As I've said before I was hoping we'd avoid this exercise. Best case, it wastes the time of people who could be working on all sorts of valuable projects for the ecosystem. Worst case, we take a

[bitcoin-dev] 7 Theses on a next step for BIP-119

2022-04-19 Thread Jeremy Rubin via bitcoin-dev
Devs, In advance of the CTV meeting today, I wanted to share what my next step is in advocating for CTV, as well as 7 theses for why I believe it to be the right course of action to take at this time. Please see the post at https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2022/04/17/next-steps-bip119/. As always, open