Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Low Energy Bitcoin PoW

2021-05-17 Thread Keagan McClelland via bitcoin-dev
A few things jump out at me as I read this proposal First, deriving the hardness from capex as opposed to opex switches the privilege from those who have cheap electricity to those who have access to chip manufacturers/foundries. While this is similarly the case for Bitcoin ASICS today, the

[bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Low Energy Bitcoin PoW

2021-05-17 Thread Bogdan Penkovsky via bitcoin-dev
Hi Bitcoin Devs, We would like to share with you a draft proposal for a durable, low energy Bitcoin proof of work. BIP: ? Title: Durable, Low Energy Bitcoin PoW Author: Michael Dubrovsky , Bogdan Penkovsky Discussions-To: Comments-Summary: No comments yet. Comments-URI:

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Force to do nothing for first 9 minutes to save 90% of mining energy

2021-05-17 Thread Michael Fuhrmann via bitcoin-dev
Am 17.05.2021 um 04:58 schrieb Luke Dashjr: It increases security, and is unavoidable anyway. You can't. There must be a way. dRNG + universal clock + cryptographical magic?! I'll think about more. Because if there is a safe way of knowing when a block was mined then this can work and no

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Force to do nothing for first 9 minutes to save 90% of mining energy

2021-05-17 Thread Keagan McClelland via bitcoin-dev
In principle the idea of making your transactions not mineable except by miners who follow some particular practice is something that can and should be discussed. For instance, it could help give economic signals for future soft forks such that users can declare preference in a costly, sybil

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Opinion on proof of stake in future

2021-05-17 Thread Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev
Verifiable Delay Functions involve active participation of a single verifier. Without this a VDF decays into a proof-of-work (multiple verifiers === parallelism). The verifier, in this case is "the bitcoin network" taken as a whole. I think it is reasonable to consider that some

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Force to do nothing for first 9 minutes to save 90% of mining energy

2021-05-17 Thread Anton Ragin via bitcoin-dev
Hello, list >Hello centralisation. Might as well just have someone sign miner keys, and get >rid of PoW entirely... >No, it is not centralization - No, it is not centralization, as: (a) different miners could use different standards / certifications for 'green' status, there are many already;

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Force to do nothing for first 9 minutes to save 90% of mining energy

2021-05-17 Thread befreeandopen via bitcoin-dev
Hello list, >>Hello centralisation. Might as well just have someone sign miner keys, and get >>rid of PoW entirely... >>No, it is not centralization - > > No, it is not centralization, as: > > (a) different miners could use different standards / certifications for > 'green' status, there are

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Force to do nothing for first 9 minutes to save 90% of mining energy

2021-05-17 Thread Anton Ragin via bitcoin-dev
>> 2. I am not a huge data-center specialist, but it was my understanding that they charge per unit of installed (maximum) electricity consumption. It would mean that if the miner needs X kilowatts-hour within that 1 minute when they are allowed to mine, he/she will have to pay for the same X for

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Force to do nothing for first 9 minutes to save 90% of mining energy

2021-05-17 Thread Zac Greenwood via bitcoin-dev
> > > Are there people who can freely produce new mining equipment to an > arbitrary degree? > Close. Bitmain for example produces their own ASICs and rigs which they mine with. Antpool is controlled by Bitmain and has a significant amount of the hash power. The marginal cost of an ASIC chip or

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Force to do nothing for first 9 minutes to save 90% of mining energy

2021-05-17 Thread yanmaani--- via bitcoin-dev
This is silly, but I'll add my take: This would create the incentive to have chips that are idle 50% of the time and work harder 50% of the time. This means miners would buy twice the chips to use the same amount of power, for example. This in turn means a greater portion of your operational

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Force to do nothing for first 9 minutes to save 90% of mining energy

2021-05-17 Thread Karl via bitcoin-dev
On 5/16/21, Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev wrote: > https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Efficiency-Paradox > https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Proof-of-Memory-Fallacy The chain security actually reduces by 10% in this proposal. So the efficiency paradox is not