Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Hi Blink API owners, We would like to get approval to start doing a limited experiment on deprecating unload handlers, proposal below. First some updates. MessagePorts After some investigation, it turns out that Robert Knight (Hypothesis)'s use of `unload` to signal that a MessagePort can be

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Hello blink-dev team, I work for SAP and try to understand how the process of web standards deprecations works in general. I just posted couple of questions on MDN, illustrated by "unload event" deprecation example. Feedback over this or that channel welcome:

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Created crbug/1472321 to track that improvement On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 1:28 AM Fergal Daly wrote: > On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 at 09:08, Brandon Heenan wrote: > >> That makes sense—I suppose a more general wording that would apply here >> would be "These flags prevent or revert a breaking change and

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 at 09:08, Brandon Heenan wrote: > That makes sense—I suppose a more general wording that would apply here > would be "These flags prevent or revert a breaking change and will only be > available for a limited time." Does that sound better to you / others on > the thread? >

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

That makes sense—I suppose a more general wording that would apply here would be "These flags prevent or revert a breaking change and will only be available for a limited time." Does that sound better to you / others on the thread? On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 4:33 AM Fergal Daly wrote: > On Wed, 9

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

[BCC blink-dev, we can add them back when we have something concrete] On Fri, 28 Jul 2023 at 16:42, Robert Knight wrote: > > Robert, in your case could you use the permission policy to re-enable > unload events on the frame until we come up with a better fix? Or are there > scenarios where you

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

On Wed, 9 Aug 2023 at 07:23, Brandon Heenan wrote: > Still, previous breaking changes to the unload event that affected SAP > were present in the /deprecated page, so the safest thing to do is to > follow the same pattern here, no? > The switch landed here , It's in

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Still, previous breaking changes to the unload event that affected SAP were present in the /deprecated page, so the safest thing to do is to follow the same pattern here, no? On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 12:18 AM Fergal Daly wrote: > On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 at 08:00, Brandon Heenan wrote: > >> Flipping

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 at 08:00, Brandon Heenan wrote: > Flipping the permission policy default is still a breaking change that > requires some action from the developer to keep unload events, right? If > so, we still want en entry in the /deprecated page so that unmanaged > (vendors/BYOD/outbound)

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Flipping the permission policy default is still a breaking change that requires some action from the developer to keep unload events, right? If so, we still want en entry in the /deprecated page so that unmanaged (vendors/BYOD/outbound) users accessing on-prem deployments have some mitigation.

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

On Sat, 8 Jul 2023 at 07:55, Brandon Heenan wrote: > Hello, I'm chiming in to provide some thoughts from the enterprise > perspective. > > Our goal is to not block forward progress to the web, but to improve the > web in an enterprise-friendly way. You shouldn't ever hear me say "you > can't do

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

> Robert, in your case could you use the permission policy to re-enable unload events on the frame until we come up with a better fix? Or are there scenarios where you lack the ability to add "allow=" attributes to the iframe elements? If I understand correctly, this attribute has to be set

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Hi Fergal, In the general case the frames involved in communication may be cross origin, though I think we could find workarounds for the most common use cases, possibly using Web Locks. > Could you give us some more detail on the structure of this communication? How do you end up with a

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

[CC: bfcache-dev, BCC: blink-dev and others we can discuss this and get back with a summary, let me know if you want a CC ] On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 at 16:44, Robert Knight wrote: > Hello, > > Hypothesis (https://web.hypothes.is, a web page/PDF/ebook annotation > tool) uses the "unload" event to

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

On Fri, 28 Jul 2023 at 04:23, Ian Clelland wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 1:38 PM Rick Byers wrote: > >> On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 11:37 AM Greg Whitworth >> wrote: >> >>> Hey folks, >>> >>> Salesforce hasn't had a chance to do a full scan yet but we can almost >>> guarantee we'll have

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 1:38 PM Rick Byers wrote: > On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 11:37 AM Greg Whitworth > wrote: > >> Hey folks, >> >> Salesforce hasn't had a chance to do a full scan yet but we can almost >> guarantee we'll have this somewhere. We do have two questions that we'd >> like answered:

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 11:37 AM Greg Whitworth wrote: > Hey folks, > > Salesforce hasn't had a chance to do a full scan yet but we can almost > guarantee we'll have this somewhere. We do have two questions that we'd > like answered: > Thanks Greg! I imagine it's going to be quite hard to know

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Hey folks, Salesforce hasn't had a chance to do a full scan yet but we can almost guarantee we'll have this somewhere. We do have two questions that we'd like answered: 1. Are you also removing the beforeunload event? 2. Will sendBeacon still work when navigating to another page? Thanks, Greg

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

[Just back from vacation, sorry for the delay] On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 3:44 AM Robert Knight wrote: > Hello, > > Hypothesis (https://web.hypothes.is, a web page/PDF/ebook annotation > tool) uses the "unload" event to signal to one end of a message channel > when the other end is in a frame that

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Hello, Hypothesis (https://web.hypothes.is, a web page/PDF/ebook annotation tool) uses the "unload" event to signal to one end of a message channel when the other end is in a frame that is about to go away. This is a workaround for the lack of a "close" event in the Channel Messaging API

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Thanks for chiming in, Brandon! I'm glad to hear that the Enterprise constituency is comfortable with the plan. I'm concerned that there may be a couple other constituencies that may not be: - Third party widgets that currently use unload to send a single "end of page" beacon. fetchLater()

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Hello, I'm chiming in to provide some thoughts from the enterprise perspective. Our goal is to not block forward progress to the web, but to improve the web in an enterprise-friendly way. You shouldn't ever hear me say "you can't do X because it's scary to the enterprise team." You should

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 1:47 AM Kenji Baheux wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 1:48 PM Fergal Daly wrote: > >> On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 at 01:16, Rick Byers wrote: >> >>> Hi Fergal, >>> Thanks for pushing through this contentious and challenging deprecation. >>> We discussed this in the API owners

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 at 14:41, Mike Taylor wrote: > Hi Fergal, > > Nice to have lunch with you today. > On 6/28/23 5:06 PM, 'Fergal Daly' via blink-dev wrote: > > Hi API-owners, > > > I am now asking for permission to go ahead with the following concrete > unload deprecation plan below. > > > >

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 1:48 PM Fergal Daly wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 at 01:16, Rick Byers wrote: > >> Hi Fergal, >> Thanks for pushing through this contentious and challenging deprecation. >> We discussed this in the API owners meeting today and were worried that >> this plan seemed likely

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Hi Fergal, Nice to have lunch with you today. On 6/28/23 5:06 PM, 'Fergal Daly' via blink-dev wrote: Hi API-owners, I am now asking for permission to go ahead with the following concrete unload deprecation plan below. * Tools and outreach o M115 Enable

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 at 01:16, Rick Byers wrote: > Hi Fergal, > Thanks for pushing through this contentious and challenging deprecation. > We discussed this in the API owners meeting today and were worried that > this plan seemed likely to be seriously problematic for enterprises (policy >

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Hi Rick, Thank you for your review and feedback. On the enterprise engagement, we have informed them about these upcoming planned changes back in March and have continued the engagement with them to ensure enterprise visibility

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Hi Fergal, Thanks for pushing through this contentious and challenging deprecation. We discussed this in the API owners meeting today and were worried that this plan seemed likely to be seriously problematic for enterprises (policy opt-out is helpful, but far from a silver bullet unfortunately).

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Hi API-owners, I am now asking for permission to go ahead with the following concrete unload deprecation plan below. - Tools and outreach - M115 Enable `Permission-Policy: unload` (PP:unload) with the default being enabled. This allows sites to opt-in to unload

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

On Mon, 8 May 2023 at 17:51, Rick Byers wrote: > Hi Fergal, > It's exciting to see this moving forward! Just to clarify, this is > effectively an I2S for the unload permissions-policy, is that right? Or are > you also requesting permission to stop firing unload events now too? The > latter is

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Hi Rick, Some extra details in case it helps: - Enterprise/Edu environments: the default behavior will be controllable via a dedicated group policy (i.e. admins will have the option to opt-out), and we have drafted a heads-up in the next Chrome for Enterprise release notes. -

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 10:51 AM Rick Byers wrote: > Hi Fergal, > It's exciting to see this moving forward! Just to clarify, this is > effectively an I2S for the unload permissions-policy, is that right? Or are > you also requesting permission to stop firing unload events now too? The > latter

Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Hi Fergal, It's exciting to see this moving forward! Just to clarify, this is effectively an I2S for the unload permissions-policy, is that right? Or are you also requesting permission to stop firing unload events now too? The latter is going to require some significant compat analysis, but could

[blink-dev] Intent to Deprecate: Deprecate unload event

Contact emails fer...@chromium.org, kenjibah...@chromium.org Explainer https://github.com/fergald/docs/blob/master/explainers/permissions-policy-deprecate-unload.md Specification https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/7915 Summary A Permission-Policy for creating unload event listeners will be