Hi Tom,
Sure. The first paragraph describes the current situation regarding the
use of a controversial single word.
The second paragraph steps back and looks at the bigger picture within
our community. My speculation that the animus and hard feelings that
this word has elicited among callers
Rich,
I'm not clear why Woody's question is directed to me. And I see he's
indicating that's this long involved conversation about terminology is related
to creating a callerlab for contra. I'm not clear on his thinking so I suppose
I'll have to hear from him before honestly responding
This
As a member of Callerlab for 25 years, I can answer Woody's question with a
definitive "NO".
Callerlab does offer many benefits, but it has its drawbacks as well.
Standardization was supposed to be a good thing, and perhaps in the MWSD
world that is more good than bad, but it also diminishes the r
Woody, I really don't understand your question. Please connect the dots.
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 30, 2018, at 2:20 AM, Woody Lane via Callers
> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> Earlier this year in Eugene, a caller was struggling with trying to be extra
> careful with alternative terms for gypsy.
Hi Tom,
Earlier this year in Eugene, a caller was struggling with trying to be
extra careful with alternative terms for gypsy. She referred to the
"g-word" and then tried using other terms. She was actually trying to
demonstrate something else on the floor. The crowd said in a friendly
way bu
these dances are thriving amidst a decline of attendance of
> contra in general.
>
>
>
> Donna Hunt
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ron Blechner via Callers
> To: Jeffrey Spero
> Cc: callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> Sent: Wed, Mar 28, 2018 1
dst a decline of attendance of contra in general.
Donna Hunt
-Original Message-
From: Ron Blechner via Callers
To: Jeffrey Spero
Cc: callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Sent: Wed, Mar 28, 2018 12:47 pm
Subject: Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?
Hi Jeff,
I think your un
ent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 10:49 AM
> To: call...@sharedweight.net
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?
>
> I have a friend who danced for the pure joy of it until he got sick of
> being asked why a black man wanted to contra dance. I dance with more,
> purer joy now
Tom,
Ron's point wasn't that changing terminology in some dances has been
beneficial; his point was simply that the terminology has indeed changed in
some dances, and he gave exactly the right amount of data necessary to
support that point. If you want to go do your own study on whether it has
be
Yes in DC I have noticed one or two cross gendered people attending and some,
not many gay folks too. Perhaps these populations are finding contra for the
first time or finding out that it's a safe place to have fun.
I used to remodel houses in the DC area with a cross gendered person. There
In NYC there are more dances now then there ever have been in the past. They
are all pretty progressive in Dance roles. Two are gender free and one is not
but has a significant majority of dancers that dance both roles and lots who
dance with everyone.
Attendance fluctuates so it’s hard to tel
Ron,
I keep on reading your writing and see that you often give only partial
information. What you write below is interesting:
> In New England, New York, Seattle, and the Bay Area, many callers have been
> examining terminology and changing. Several dance series have gone genderfree
> withou
Not that the world at large was waiting for me to weigh in on this, but:
I completely endorse Jen's point that "political correctness" is usually
used as code for resenting having to treat people with respect.
I completely endorse Louise's point that the past where everyone could
dance for th
riginal Message-
From: Callers On Behalf Of Louise
Siddons via Callers
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 10:49 AM
To: call...@sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?
I have a friend who danced for the pure joy of it until he got sick of being
asked why a black man wanted
Hi Jeff,
I think your understanding of there being "no to little movement" is
inaccurate.
In New England, New York, Seattle, and the Bay Area, many callers have been
examining terminology and changing. Several dance series have gone
genderfree without being specifically chartered as LGBTQ dances.
> On Mar 28, 2018, at 8:56 AM, Maia McCormick wrote:
>
> While Jeffrey makes a compelling point, I want to chime in with another
> thought: that not having these discussions is just as divisive (if not more
> so) than having them, just in ways that are harder for some sides of the
> community
(Ah, to clarify, by "offered a dance to split them from their partner" I'm
talking about the phenomenon that Louise mentioned, where a queer couple
(or heck, even same-gender friends!) are offered dances by people to slot
them into opposite-gender couples.)
On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 11:56 AM, Maia M
While Jeffrey makes a compelling point, I want to chime in with another
thought: *that not having these discussions is just as divisive (if not
more so) than having them*, just in ways that are harder for some sides of
the community to see. While people make (very valid) claims that long
discussion
I have a friend who danced for the pure joy of it until he got sick of being
asked why a black man wanted to contra dance. I dance with more, purer joy now
that fewer men “offer” to split me up from my girlfriend when we join a line
together.
I’d love everyone to dance for the pure joy of it, b
He’s right… and she’s right. How can they both be right?
Well… they ARE both right. There is no clear cut answer on this. People who
feel strongly on one side or the other may like to think there is a clear cut
answer, but if one thing seems clear to me by the amount of back and forth on
thi
I agree wholeheartedly with Jen, and appreciate her thoughtful response.
Donald makes the excellent point that history is the source of an ongoing
challenge (it’s not the present, and the values of any one historical moment
are not the same as those of another) for which language usefully offers
While it's true that language is often not the problem, it's less relevant
to the discussion of what words to use as a caller than you might think.
Scenario A:
If we have to keep finding new ways to describe square dancing because it's
viewed as an activity only danced by weird old white people, t
When history shows a number of new terms introduced over the years,
and each, after a while, picks up the taint of being derogatory, you
eventually figure out that
the word itself isn't the real problem.
Using the tainted water analogy, if the person serving your water has
typhoid, asking for a ne
Hello folks
I'd just like to second what Ron said. We keep hearing about how
organisers would like to "get Young People in", but then express disdain
for the things we care about, such as avoiding offensive language.
The idea that we should be allowed to say whatever we want when calling as
long
"Living Tradition"
Preserving tradition and being appropriate to our day and age are not
mutually exclusive.
I actually love rich traditions that we keep alive. We talk about "living"
traditions, so what do we mean by this phrase?
For something to be alive, it changes. It adapts. What it doesn't
I want to echo the words of Alex D-L and Dave Casserly.
I'm also appalled at the casual use of the n-word on this thread without
anyone whatsoever calling it out. This is really giving me pause. :(
Contra's attendance is dwindling - I hear it from every organizer I talk
to, with a couple exceptio
An important thing to remember is that sometimes *you just can't
please everyone* no matter what you do. That applies not only
to issues that some would characterize as being about "political
correctness" (singing call lyrics; the "g-word"; gendered vs.
gender-free names for dance roles), but to m
I am an example of someone who gradually left a dance community partly because
of what I saw as offensive lyrics in singing calls….. When my wife and I were
dancing modern western squares in the late 1980s, in Ohio, many callers were
using contemporary pop and country songs for their singing ca
I learned it as a child as "She's a young girl." That would at least get
rid of the people are things issue.
On Sat, Mar 24, 2018, 10:12 PM Rich Sbardella via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hello folks,
>
> I have been calling singing squares for years, and there is one I lov
Rich,
I don't think your situation here is exactly what Colin describes-- you're
not worried about any of the particular words, as many of us are regarding
the word "gypsy," for instance. The question here is whether the phrase
has an offensive *meaning* of "women are things," and if so, is that
Hey Rich:
Several replies are of the "it's OK in context" or "that's how things were
back then" variety.
Perhaps.
To use that as the sole argument, however, leads me to a cute little rhyme
my friends and I would sing out when we were about 5 years old and playing
in the yard out on the west coas
ative American
traditions as an exception to what I am saying!!)
I agree with Tom and some of the others.. "Yes always be respectful, not
intentionally disrespectful."
nuf said - bill
________
From: Callers on behalf of Donna Hunt
via Callers
Sent: Monday, March
aught in the middle.
BTW: I MWS in an LGBTQ group and we use "boys and girls" and no one cares
and almost everyone switches...such a delight!
Donna Hunt
-Original Message-----
From: Rich Sbardella via Callers
To: Bob Hofkin
Cc: Caller's discussion list
Sent: Sun, Mar 25, 201
are caught
in the middle.
BTW: I MWS in an LGBTQ group and we use "boys and girls" and no one cares and
almost everyone switches...such a delight!
Donna Hunt
-Original Message-
From: Rich Sbardella via Callers
To: Bob Hofkin
Cc: Caller's discussion list
Se
Well said Colin.
On Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 6:20 AM Colin Hume via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I'm going to be controversial, so please think hard about what I'm saying
> - and why you're reacting to it the way you
> are - before replying.
>
> I think "Political correctness" is
I'm going to be controversial, so please think hard about what I'm saying - and
why you're reacting to it the way you
are - before replying.
I think "Political correctness" is mainly an American problem, though it seems
to be spreading to England too.
The word "nigger" was not originally a pejo
Historically, a lot has changed. Take the traditional singing square
"Marching Through Georgia." Does anyone really think the original song
is about ambling with friends along a quiet country road near Atlanta?
I have a thin 1989 book "Just One More Dance" by Carole Howard. It lists
scores of
I feel that the old dances, like old movies, shouldn’t be left in the dust
because they are offensive in our modern context. Rather we can take them in
their context, as a relic of an older day.
I happen to LOVE the song Billy Boy, it was on a movie I saw as a child and was
one of the few piec
I visited, more than once, an assisted living home, here in CT, to talk to a
prominent caller of "back in the day".He told of dancing as a teen. So many
young folks did then. The call was "swing her in the center and kiss her if
you dare".He stammered and turned red as she poked fun at his sh
Often people don’t speak up. It doesn’t mean they like the language. There
aren’t very many dances that actively solicit feedback and even the ones that
do don’t get it all the time. There are often callers or phrases that bother
me. I very occasionally tell the callers if they are friends of m
I have to agree with Tom. The only push back I have ever received was from two
female callers I helped get started. This was in the early 90s. I have
otherwise never had a complaint about calling singing square dances as they
have been traditionally called/sung.
That said, I try to know my cro
It looks like this is the version Rich is referring to:
http://www.ceder.net/recorddb/viewsingle.php?RecordId=1891
More background on the English folk song / sea shanty this American folk
song is based on:
https://mainlynorfolk.info/martin.carthy/songs/billyboy.html
In traditional songs things do
If you are concerned about sexism alternate between she/her and he/his. 😎
On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, 1:39 AM Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> People are not things. I don’t think it’s appropriate for any crowd.
> Try your hand at some new lyrics!
>
> Sent fr
Rich,
I agree with Tom. This is one of the most traditional tunes I grew up with.
Isn't one of CDSS' objectives to promote and continue TRADITIONAL song...
I say leave it alone.
Mary
On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, 1:12 AM Rich Sbardella via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hello folks,
Yes Bob,
You are correct, but the tag line for each verse remains the same. I would
have to find a word to replace -young "thing".
I think perhaps it is a generational thing. I have been calling this song
to my seniors who are about 75% women in their 70's and 80s and they sing
along. No obje
If I recall the folk song, it's more satirical--she can bake a cherry
pie and stuff, and turns out to be older than Billy lets on. See if you
can't find lines in one of the versions that shift the focus.
Bob
On 3/25/2018 02:07, Don Veino via Callers wrote:
I've started doing singing squares
In the land of freedom and rugged individualism I find that my choices in many
realms of my life are being eaten away.
Go for it! Call what you want and don't worry about what others are going to
say. For me the PC stuff has gone over board. Calling is difficult enough
without having to be
I've started doing singing squares over the past year and have been making
adjustments to lyrics for each one I do. So far the changes have been
relatively easy - mostly eliminating explicit gender and talking to
everyone whenever possible vs. a "talk to the (assumed) lead" focus.
There are real c
Thus did Ophelia's suicide become merely an accidental drowning, thanks to
Thomas Bowdler, who criticized Shakespeare for exposing his readers to "the
danger of being hurt with any indelicacy of expression."
On Mar 25, 2018, at 1:39 AM, Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers
wrote:
> People are not
People are not things. I don’t think it’s appropriate for any crowd.
Try your hand at some new lyrics!
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 25, 2018, at 1:12 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers
> wrote:
>
> Hello folks,
>
> I have been calling singing squares for years, and there is one I love by
> Dic
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