[ccp4bb] Occupancy Refinement limitation

2023-09-05 Thread Matt McLeod
Hi all, I am trying to get some insight in the accuracy/precision of occupancy refinements. I have done some 2-state occupancy refinements and have observed the refinement achieving ~0.25-0.3 occupancy for the minor population. This population, when observing the electron density maps, had es

Re: [ccp4bb] Occupancy Refinement limitation

2023-09-05 Thread Pavel Afonine
Hi Matt, I believe figure 3 here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06957-w is relevant to your question. Pavel On Tue, Sep 5, 2023 at 11:32 AM Matt McLeod wrote: > Hi all, > > I am trying to get some insight in the accuracy/precision of occupancy > refinements. I have done some 2-sta

Re: [ccp4bb] Occupancy Refinement limitation

2023-09-05 Thread Eleanor Dodson
Well - occupancy refinement is particularly imprecise, and highly correlated with temperature factors. Also the population for a surface ARG or LYS may well have more than two conformations, whereas some internal residue is better defined. There is also the Q of solvent - dual occupancies will gene

Re: [ccp4bb] Occupancy Refinement limitation

2023-09-06 Thread Tim Gruene
Hi Matt, this can be done with SHELXL, even at 2-3A resolution. Anomalous data do help reduce the correlation between B-factor and occupancy (see e.g. https://doi.org/10.1126/science.1254840 to stick with Pavel's example) SHELXL prints the correlation coefficient between occupancy and b-factor,

Re: [ccp4bb] Occupancy Refinement limitation

2023-09-06 Thread John R Helliwell
Dear Matt,I believe this study we made may well assist your evaluations:-(IUCr) Experience with exchange and archiving of raw data: comparison of data from two diffractometers and four software packages on a series of lysozyme crystalsjournals.iucr.orgBest wishes,John Emeritus Professor John R Hell

Re: [ccp4bb] Occupancy Refinement limitation

2023-09-06 Thread Matt Mcleod
Hi, I should be a bit more specific. We have many crystal structures to indicate that a loop adopts conformation A and conformation B, or - the loop can be disordered where the electron density is washed out. These states are dependent on how we perturb the system. We have a series of data, as

Re: [ccp4bb] Occupancy Refinement limitation

2023-09-06 Thread a . perrakis
I would be tempted to try phenix.ensemble_refinement instead. Look at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3949522/ or https://phenix-online.org/phenixwebsite_static/mainsite/files/presentations/ensemble_refinement_burnley_at_al_10DEC2012.pdf or https://elifesciences.org/articles/00311 T

Re: [ccp4bb] Occupancy Refinement limitation

2023-09-06 Thread Eleanor Dodson
Low tech but simple. Exclude both conformers from the refinement. (set occs to 0.00 so you still see the coordinates in COOT) Look at the difference map density and make a rough estimate of occupancy from peak heights for a "fixed" bit of the conformers.. The relative ratios for different states s