[ccp4bb] Opinion on automation

2012-02-17 Thread Theresa H. Hsu
Dear crystallographers I would like to get some opinion. For someone beginning to learn basic crystallography including indexing, scaling ..., should I start with automated tool like Xia2? Or is manual method for each step better for learning? Thank you. Theresa

Re: [ccp4bb] Opinion on automation

2012-02-17 Thread Poul Nissen
Dear theresa xia2 does a great job so it can be used as your reference when processing your data manually, either for learning or improvement. When comparing different processing programs and protocols try to judge data quality by some objectice criteria like HA site identification, anomalous

Re: [ccp4bb] Opinion on automation

2012-02-17 Thread Graeme Winter
Dear Theresa, My answer would be - it depends. If you are in the business of learning crystallography, then I would absolutely suggest you start from doing everything by hand. Indeed, if you really want to get stuck in I would suggest starting with the programs you need (mosflm, scala, truncate

Re: [ccp4bb] Opinion on automation

2012-02-17 Thread Liz Potterton
Hello Teresa, I need to disagree with Graeme over the idea that ccp4i 'hides' what is happening. If you care to you can see all the gorey details of command files, log files etc.. You can run the programs one step at a time and with various modes with ccp4i and iMosflm and learn something of

Re: [ccp4bb] Opinion on automation

2012-02-17 Thread Harry Powell
Hi In addition to what Poul and Graeme have said, it may be worthwhile attending one of the fine protein crystallography schools that are run, where you will hear lectures on integration scaling etc that attempt to explain the basics of what's being done, and probably have a couple of

Re: [ccp4bb] Opinion on automation

2012-02-17 Thread eugene . krissinel
This is actually very true, I simply want to support/enforce Liz's statement by adding that ccp4i indeed provides for both ends: from elementary scripts, useful for experts, to a rather large-scale automated processing where low-level details are not on the front page, which is more useful for

Re: [ccp4bb] Opinion on automation

2012-02-17 Thread jens Preben Morth
After putting up your quote in the lab, a student quickly replied To do and fail is to remember and to understand :-) On 2/17/12 1:43 PM, Harry Powell wrote: Hi In addition to what Poul and Graeme have said, it may be worthwhile attending one of the fine protein crystallography schools that

Re: [ccp4bb] Opinion on automation

2012-02-17 Thread Bosch, Juergen
You would hope one learns something from failed experiments. I feel prehistoric now after Liz comment. Jürgen .. Jürgen Bosch Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Department of Biochemistry Molecular Biology Johns Hopkins Malaria Research Institute 615 North Wolfe

Re: [ccp4bb] Opinion on automation

2012-02-17 Thread Sanishvili, Ruslan
@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Opinion on automation Hi In addition to what Poul and Graeme have said, it may be worthwhile attending one of the fine protein crystallography schools that are run, where you will hear lectures on integration scaling etc that attempt to explain the basics of what's