Re: [ccp4bb] SHELXL eating REFMAC5 waters - whom to trust?

2009-11-13 Thread Jan Dohnalek
Dear Wulf, I have had a similar experience recently when water treatment in SHELXL became a nightmare - as you say they started shifting away even if those were clear water sites. I have not found a final solution to this but I was not worried by those where density disappeared - those were the

Re: [ccp4bb] SHELXL eating REFMAC5 waters - whom to trust?

2009-11-13 Thread Pavel Afonine
A few remarks: I still believe that this is related to the max. likelihood vs. conjugated gradients and FFT vs. full summation Fourier and bulk solvent treatment in those programs. - max. likelihood is a refinement target function, and conjugated gradients is an optimization method. - FFT

Re: [ccp4bb] SHELXL eating REFMAC5 waters - whom to trust?

2009-11-13 Thread Martin Hallberg
Hi Wulf, For your waters that move slightly out of the centre of density I think SHELX FAQ #27 would apply: Q27: Some Waters are moving away from the centre of density toward the corner of the density. What is going on ? George: We have sometimes seen atoms move to the edge of density in a

[ccp4bb] SHELXL eating REFMAC5 waters - whom to trust?

2009-11-11 Thread Wulf Blankenfeldt
Dear all, I am blessed/tormented with a 0.8 A data set for a small protein. I first refined it using COOT/REFMAC5 until I deemed it done, which meant manually adding quite a few water molecules that were weak and a little more distant to the protein. R is 10.2%, R-free is 10.8%. I realize