Re: P112

2019-12-03 Thread Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
On 12/3/19 8:15 PM, Fred Cisin via cctech wrote: > On Wed, 4 Dec 2019, Bill Gunshannon via cctech wrote: >> Along this line I have solved one problem.  I mentioned INIT in >> RSX180 printing gibberish on the screen when trying to init a >> hard disk partition where it had worked on a floppy.  Probl

Re: P112

2019-12-03 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019, Bill Gunshannon via cctech wrote: Along this line I have solved one problem. I mentioned INIT in RSX180 printing gibberish on the screen when trying to init a hard disk partition where it had worked on a floppy. Problem was the size of the partitions. I had tried just makin

Re: P112

2019-12-03 Thread Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
On 12/3/19 7:51 PM, Craig Ruff via cctech wrote: > Just in case someone else hasn't already responded, the P112 does not use DOS > style fdisk partitioning for a hard disk. It is done in the BIOS image, and > then the logical disks have to be initialized. This is described in the "P112 > GIDE Co

Re: P112

2019-12-03 Thread Craig Ruff via cctalk
Just in case someone else hasn't already responded, the P112 does not use DOS style fdisk partitioning for a hard disk. It is done in the BIOS image, and then the logical disks have to be initialized. This is described in the "P112 GIDE Construction.pdf" document. I've only used 3.5" floppies,

Re: PBX (or something) for modem testing

2019-12-03 Thread Glen Slick via cctalk
On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:35 PM Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > > That said, I went out to eBay to see if I could source a 2-8 line > something to help, and got smacked around with my lack of telephone > system knowledge. > > So, any ideas (or links to eBay auctions) of brands/models/etc. I should >

Re: PBX (or something) for modem testing

2019-12-03 Thread Grant Taylor via cctalk
On 12/3/19 9:35 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: So, any ideas (or links to eBay auctions) of brands/models/etc. I should focus on? I would purchase a Partner system from AT&T / Lucent / Avaya. I think they are both analog and digital. The analog will work for modems. You will likely need a

PBX (or something) for modem testing

2019-12-03 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk
To continue validating modem functionality, I think it makes sense to set up a closed loop phone system in my lab that will function well enough to allow modems to connect to each other (dial tone, ringing, busy signal, etc.). I know I can probably whip something up with a 9 v battery and a pi

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Antonio Carlini via cctalk
On 03/12/2019 20:22, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Watch out.  PDF with OCR can show you a clear and crisp  [possibly wrong] interpretation of the scan, not what the actual scan looked like. The OCR may well say "0" where the printing says "8" but what your eyes will see will be the represe

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: The trouble (for both of these) is that many of the users don't know the limitations and blindly use the wrong tools. "To the man who has a hammer, the whole world looks like a thumb." (which is an idictment about misuse, not an indictment of h

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
> JBIG2 .. introduces so many actual factual errors (typically > substituted letters and numbers) On Tue, 3 Dec 2019, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: It's probably worth noting that there are often errors _in the original documents_, too - so even a perfect image doesn't guarantee no errors

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Eric Smith via cctalk
On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 10:59 AM Paul Berger via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Is there any way to know what compression was used in a pdf file? > There's not necessarily only one. Every object in a PDF file can have its own selection of compression algorithm. I don't know of any user-

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Paul Koning via cctalk
> On Dec 3, 2019, at 12:59 PM, Paul Berger via cctalk > wrote: > > ... > Would TIFF G4 still be preferable to JPEG2000? It would seem I can control > the compression used by selecting the pdf compatibility level. JPEG2000 apparently has a lossless mode (says Wikipedia). If so, it would be

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Paul Berger via cctalk
On 2019-12-02 4:57 p.m., Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 8:51 PM Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote: When I corresponded with Al Kossow about format several years ago, he indicated that CCITT Group 4 lossless compression was their standard. There are newer bilevel encodings t

Re: One old Sol, Two old names...

2019-12-03 Thread Eric Smith via cctalk
On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 7:43 PM William Sudbrink via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Other interesting things about the Sol include that it has an 80/64 video > modification > (with patches all over): > http://wsudbrink.dyndns.org:8080/images/fixed_sol/20191125_202606.jpg > Cool! Here's

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Grant Taylor via cctalk
On 12/3/19 10:30 AM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: PDF was never _intended_ for documents that should undergo any further processing. Okay. Fair rebuttal. The few things that have been hacked onto it for interactive use are actually the worst thing about PDF. My opinion Okay. I don't hav

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Paul Koning via cctalk
> On Dec 2, 2019, at 11:12 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk > wrote: > > On 12/2/19 9:06 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: >> In my opinion, PDFs are the last place that computer usable data goes. >> Because getting anything out of a PDF as a data source is next to impossible. >> Sure, you, a hu

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Eric Smith via cctalk
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 9:06 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > My problem with PDFs starts where most people stop using them. > > Take the average PDF of text, try to copy and paste the text into a text > file. (That may work.) > Sure. Now try thing same thing with a TI

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Eric Smith via cctalk
On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 1:50 AM Christian Corti via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > *NEVER* use JBIG2! I hope you know about the Xerox JBIG2 bug (e.g. making > That's _LOSSY_ JBIG2. YOU DON"T HAVE TO USE LOSSY MODE!

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Eric Smith via cctalk
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 7:08 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I *HATE* doing anything with PDFs other than reading them. PDF was never _intended_ for documents that should undergo any further processing. The few things that have been hacked onto it for interactive use

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Eric Smith via cctalk
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 5:34 PM Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: > Mentioning JBIG2 (or any of its predecessors) without noting that it is > completely unacceptable as a scanned document compression scheme, > demonstrates > a lack of awareness of the defects it introduces in encoded documents. > Perh

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Noel Chiappa via cctalk
> From: Guy Dunphy > JBIG2 .. introduces so many actual factual errors (typically > substituted letters and numbers) It's probably worth noting that there are often errors _in the original documents_, too - so even a perfect image doesn't guarantee no errors. The most recent one (of

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Guy Dunphy via cctalk
At 01:20 AM 3/12/2019 -0200, you wrote: >I cannot understand your problems with PDF files. >I've created lots and lots of PDFs, with treated and untreated scanned >material. All of them are very readable and in use for years. Of course, >garbage in, garbage out. I take the utmost care in my scans t

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread ED SHARPE via cctalk
actually   we scan to pdf  with back ocr  also text  also tiff also jpegwith the slooowww   hp 11x17 scan fax print thing i can scan entite document then save 1 save2 save3  save 4 without rescanning each time   ed  at smecc In a message dated 12/3/2019 2:16:01 AM US Mountain Standard Time, ccta

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread ED SHARPE via cctalk
very nice  file yep, we prefer pdf   with  ocr   back  stuff   ed smecc,orgIn a message dated 12/2/2019 8:20:36 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: I cannot understand your problems with PDF files. I've created lots and lots of PDFs, with treated and untreated scanned mate

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Jan-Benedict Glaw via cctalk
Hi! On Tue, 2019-12-03 11:34:06 +1100, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: > At 01:57 PM 2/12/2019 -0700, you wrote: > >On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 8:51 PM Jay Jaeger via cctalk > >wrote: > > > > > When I corresponded with Al Kossow about format several years ago, he > > > indicated that CCITT Group 4 loss

Re: Scanning docs for bitsavers

2019-12-03 Thread Christian Corti via cctalk
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019, Eric Smith wrote: There are newer bilevel encodings that are somewhat more efficient than G4 (ITU-T T.6), such as JBIG (T.82) and JBIG2 (T.88), but they are not as widely supported, and AFAIK JBIG2 is still patent encumbered. As a result, *NEVER* use JBIG2! I hope you know a