[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Just for fun, I keyed in and ran the "Ahl Benchmark" on a few "boots-to-BASIC" systems that I still have setup: Exploring Project Ahl in 2024 — voidstar https://voidstar.blog/exploring-project-ahl-in-2024/ On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 5:58 PM

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 12:48 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > >> Where would you fit the Tandy Model 100 in here? Ultimately it > >> supported a disk drive, ran basic and also sported an expansion box > >> that included video support and a floppy. > > On Fri, 3 May 2024, Bill Gunshannon via

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

> On May 3, 2024, at 6:22 PM, Sytse van Slooten via cctalk > wrote: > > And since nobody else seems to, allow me to recall: > > - MINC BASIC, with all its extensions for I/O and real time events. > > - MUBAS, the multi-user basic for RT-11. > > And playing around with BASIC is just so

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On 5/3/24 17:48, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: I seem to recall that MCBA's business applications were originally coded in DG BASIC. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 7:49 PM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > BASIC-PLUS (part of RSTS) had a weird floating point history. The original > version, through RSTS V3, used 3-word floating point: two words mantissa, one > word exponent. Then, presumably to match the 11/45 FPU, in version 4A

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

> On May 3, 2024, at 5:31 PM, Sean Conner via cctalk > wrote: > > It was thus said that the Great Steve Lewis via cctalk once stated: >> Great discussions about BASIC. I talked about the IBM 5110 flavor of >> BASIC last year (such as its FORM keyboard for quickly making structured >> input

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

And since nobody else seems to, allow me to recall: - MINC BASIC, with all its extensions for I/O and real time events. - MUBAS, the multi-user basic for RT-11. And playing around with BASIC is just so much easier and more fun than anything else you can do with old hardware or emulations

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

It was thus said that the Great Steve Lewis via cctalk once stated: > Great discussions about BASIC. I talked about the IBM 5110 flavor of > BASIC last year (such as its FORM keyboard for quickly making structured > input forms), and recently "re-learned" that it defaults to running with >

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Fri, 3 May 2024 at 10:58, Gordon Henderson via cctalk wrote: > > The original Acorn Archimedes (First ARM CPU system) had an OS initially > called "Arthur" which was written in BBC Basic and assembler. It supported > a graphical user interface - later re-written in assembler and called >

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Quick Basic and I seem to recall all or most of M$ Quick compilers were released at 99$ US. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. As I think on it maybe QB i itially was 150$. Those were the cheap compilers I was referring to. By 1987/88 the cost was less then 1/2 a week's take home earnings no

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Where would you fit the Tandy Model 100 in here? On Fri, 3 May 2024, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote: The Model 100 had a great keyboard, a text editor, and a built-in modem, and was apparently very popular among journalists who used it to write and submit stories from the field. So maybe it saw

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Hardly. The Model 100 basic had a ton of features including modem support, date/time, and so forth. Lots of programs and utilities were written in the BASIC, and games such as Heartbreaker worked perfectly. There was also a really amazing compiler that could compile basic programs to make

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Where would you fit the Tandy Model 100 in here? Ultimately it supported a disk drive, ran basic and also sported an expansion box that included video support and a floppy. On Fri, 3 May 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: Ultimately, so did the TRS-80. At least Model I, III and 4. and

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 9:14 AM KenUnix via cctalk wrote: > Where would you fit the Tandy Model 100 in here? The Model 100 had a great keyboard, a text editor, and a built-in modem, and was apparently very popular among journalists who used it to write and submit stories from the field. So

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Yes, Microsoft certainly did not invent linked list allocation. But, the Microsoft implementation of the existing idea happened to be what inspired Tim Paterson to do it. On 5/3/24 11:05, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: "Remembering his conversation at NCC with Marc McDonald about File

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On 5/3/24 11:05, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > "Remembering his conversation at NCC with Marc McDonald about File Allocation > Tables in his unfinished, large, and never-released 8-bit MIDAS operating > system, Paterson decided that the FAT scheme was a better way to handle disk > information

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Fri, 3 May 2024, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: Steve, Where would you fit the Tandy Model 100 in here? Ultimately it supported a disk drive, ran basic and also sported an expansion box that included video support and a floppy. -Ken The Model 100 BASIC (puportedly the last product that billg

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Fri, 3 May 2024, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: Microsoft BASIC appears on the 1979 NEC PC-8001, which includes disk drive support (similar to the later additions to Commodore BASIC also around 1980). But in the NEC PC-8001 manual about BASIC, it refers to a "FAT" format used on disks. So I

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

> ROM BASICs outlived their usefulness very quickly. > Certainly a very subjective statement. I was thinking the other day, that I wish the startup BIOS of modern systems had BASIC - such as in a modern i7 based laptop. At the very least, with all the trig functions, it's as useful as any

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On 5/3/2024 10:13 AM, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: Steve, Where would you fit the Tandy Model 100 in here? Ultimately it supported a disk drive, ran basic and also sported an expansion box that included video support and a floppy. Ultimately, so did the TRS-80. At least Model I, III and 4.

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Steve, Where would you fit the Tandy Model 100 in here? Ultimately it supported a disk drive, ran basic and also sported an expansion box that included video support and a floppy. -Ken On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 4:18 AM Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: > Great discussions about BASIC. I talked

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Thu, May 2, 2024, 7:58 PM Just Kant via cctalk wrote: > > ROM BASICs outlived their usefulness very quickly. Certainly a very subjective statement. Sellam

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Thu, May 2, 2024, 1:33 PM Gordon Henderson via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > I'm still fond of BASIC (or Basic, whatever). Since it's an acronym it should be written as BASIC (or I guess B.A.S.I.C.). Sellam

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Fri, May 03, 2024 at 02:51:06AM +, Just Kant via cctalk wrote: > BASICs available at bootup were nice, but really were only useful with 8 > bit micros. IBM ROM BASIC was hobbled until you ran BASICA from disk. And > if you had a floppy it only made sense to buy a cheap compiler (Quick >

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Fri, 3 May 2024, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: There was talk regarding BASIC as an operating system. Basic as an Operating System vs. An Operating system written in Basic? The original Acorn Archimedes (First ARM CPU system) had an OS initially called "Arthur" which was written in BBC

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

I still have Microsoft's first product somewhere, in my garage I think. 4K and 8K BASIC on Paper tape. Alas, no paper tape reader anymore.. On Thu, May 02, 2024 at 01:30:33PM -0500, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > Microsoft loves to take languages developed by others and transmogrify them > into

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Great discussions about BASIC. I talked about the IBM 5110 flavor of BASIC last year (such as its FORM keyboard for quickly making structured input forms), and recently "re-learned" that it defaults to running with double-precision. But if you use "RUNS" instead of "RUN" then the same code is

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

compiled basics too longer to run and debug because of the compile time. Anything I did was limited to floppy disk, or later even hard disk speed, the greater speed from compiling could not be noticed. --Carey > On 05/02/2024 9:51 PM CDT Just Kant via cctalk wrote: > > > BASICs available

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

BASICs available at bootup were nice, but really were only useful with 8 bit micros. IBM ROM BASIC was hobbled until you ran BASICA from disk. And if you had a floppy it only made sense to buy a cheap compiler (Quick Basic, Turbo Basic, etc.). Whatever you were missing by not dropping 4-500$

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On 5/2/24 13:59, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote: > There's also Geoff Graham's BASIC for the Pi Pico. > > https://geoffg.net/picomite.html Then there's the 8042 MCU-embedded BASIC, the BASIC stamp, etc. I have a little MicroPy board here that's fun to play with. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Thinking back over the last couple of months, I realize that most of my recent programming has been in Linux Bash scripts. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

There's also Geoff Graham's BASIC for the Pi Pico. https://geoffg.net/picomite.html On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 3:32 PM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > > > > On May 2, 2024, at 4:23 PM, Gordon Henderson via cctalk > > wrote: > > > > ... > > I'm told Lua is the new Basic or Python is the new

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

> On May 2, 2024, at 4:23 PM, Gordon Henderson via cctalk > wrote: > > ... > I'm told Lua is the new Basic or Python is the new Basic, but the best thing > for me about Basic on the old micros was being able to turn the computer on > and type Basic into it immediately And to that end,

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Wed, 1 May 2024, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: Let's hear your earliest introduction to BASIC. The first computer I used ran BASIC - HP9830A. I was at school in Edinburgh in '77/'78. I was 15/16 at the time. The "stupid computer" beat me at "NIM" then the teacher showed me the listing -

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

> On May 2, 2024, at 2:30 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk > wrote: > > Microsoft loves to take languages developed by others and transmogrify them > into the "Microsoft Universe". > > Quick Basic, Visual Java, Visual Basic, Visual C# (barely resembles C) and > the worst offender of all Visual

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Microsoft loves to take languages developed by others and transmogrify them into the "Microsoft Universe". Quick Basic, Visual Java, Visual Basic, Visual C# (barely resembles C) and the worst offender of all Visual C++ .NET. Your post reminded me that Postscript is an actual programming

[cctalk] Re: BASIC and other languraes

> On May 1, 2024, at 11:03 PM, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk > wrote: > > I very much miss CMS PIPELINES which was ported to MVS, but afaik never > beyond IBM mainframes. > CMS PIPELINES was a mainframe implementation of a “standard" UNIX facility (with some small extensions, e.g. multiplexed

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

I'll add a postscript with my reaction upon seeing my first Microsoft Visual BASIC program code: "What the hell is this? It's not BASIC!" --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On 5/1/24 18:43, Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote: APL is very much alive - it was invented in the '60s. Lisp is slightly older and it, as well, is still in active use - and it's older than FORTRAN, which was the inspiration for BASIC. Lisp is VERY VERY much alive, but rarely seen.  The emacs

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote: BASIC was always a popular language in the Hewlett-Packard world. From the HP 2000 timesharing BASIC that was popular in educational settings similar to the original DTSS, To BASIC/3000 on the HP 3000 which was a first-class language with both interpreter and

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On 5/1/24 23:00, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote: > I recall IITRAN for the IBM 7044, and am i correct that there was an IITRAN > for the Univac 1108, which was significantly different? I believe that IITRAN was moved from the 7040 to a 360/40 for a few years, then to an Univac 1108. All

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

> On May 1, 2024, at 6:44 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > > IMHO, “C” nomenclature really screwed up the equality vs assignment > statements. The == made it difficult to understand especially if you came > from a language that didn’t have it. Basically all languages before “C”. Well, sort

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

> On May 1, 2024, at 6:26 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk > wrote: > > The Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code (BASIC) > > Developed by John G. Kemeny and Thomas E. Kurtz at Dartmouth College in 1963. > This ran on the Dartmouth Time Sharing System (DTSS) which was an early time >

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

I learnt to program at uni on prompt-48, an 8048 development system. Hand-coded assembly, entered in hex and saved to EPROM. Later I moved to z80 with an assembler hosted on a pdp 11/34. Later still I had to do a customer project specified to be written in BASIC on an apple II (no square brackets

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Gavin Scott via cctalk [02/05/2024 05.44]: BASIC was always a popular language in the Hewlett-Packard world. From the HP 2000 timesharing BASIC that was popular in educational settings similar to the original DTSS, To BASIC/3000 on the HP 3000 which was a first-class language with both

[cctalk] Re: BASIC and other languraes

I very much miss CMS PIPELINES which was ported to MVS, but afaik never beyond IBM mainframes.

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

I recall IITRAN for the IBM 7044, and am i correct that there was an IITRAN for the Univac 1108, which was significantly different? --Carey > On 05/01/2024 6:37 PM CDT Sellam Abraham via cctalk > wrote: > > > On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 4:36 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > > To be

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Then there  was Phantasm for basic  Gavin wrote! Sent from AOL on Android On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 8:44 PM, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote: BASIC was always a popular language in the Hewlett-Packard world. From the HP 2000 timesharing BASIC that was popular in educational settings similar to

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Am I the only one on this list who designed and implemented a business BASIC? (I did have two programmers to work with me. Did it in about 4 months). Multiuser on an 8085; later versions were re-hosted on Xenix.

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

BASIC was always a popular language in the Hewlett-Packard world. From the HP 2000 timesharing BASIC that was popular in educational settings similar to the original DTSS, To BASIC/3000 on the HP 3000 which was a first-class language with both interpreter and compiler (producing very fast code),

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

My first experience with programming (BASIC) and even computers was on an Atari 400 in 9th grade. I hated those damned things, I guess mainly on account of the membrane keyboard. Elfin tight wads. In 10th I again decided to enroll in computer courses, FARTRAN and then COBOL. Mostly on teletype

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Fred, It's not a big deal.  I was exposed to the DTSS as a 7th grader because I was going to a boarding school near by in 1972. The school I was at had a PDP-8/L and I became an early adopter computer geek. On 5/1/2024 6:05 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: On Wed, 1 May 2024, Mike Katz

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Wed, 1 May 2024, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: Yet FORTRAN, the granddaddy of them all, continues on... It should be noted that FORTRAN celebrates its 70th anniversary this year: I didn't start until May 29, 1965. I had previously been doing some keypunching, and 084 counting sorter. IBM

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

In ‘81 FORTRAN77 was the first language I learnt, but it was BASIC that started my IT career. I was writing programs at Griffith University for various lecturers and research staff. This was before the uni even had a dedicated Computer Science Degree. If it wasn’t for BASIC, I’d probably be a

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On 5/1/24 16:37, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 4:36 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > >> To be sure, BASIC was hardly unique in terms of the 1960s interactive >> programming languages. We had JOSS, PILOT, IITRAN and a host of others, >> based on FORTRAN-ish

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

" Cc: "Sellam Abraham" Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2024 4:37:46 PM Subject: [cctalk] Re: BASIC On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 4:36 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > To be sure, BASIC was hardly unique in terms of the 1960s interactive > programming languages. We had JOSS, PILOT, I

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 4:36 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > To be sure, BASIC was hardly unique in terms of the 1960s interactive > programming languages. We had JOSS, PILOT, IITRAN and a host of others, > based on FORTRAN-ish syntax. not to forget APL, which was a thing apart. > > --Chuck >

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

To be sure, BASIC was hardly unique in terms of the 1960s interactive programming languages. We had JOSS, PILOT, IITRAN and a host of others, based on FORTRAN-ish syntax. not to forget APL, which was a thing apart. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Anyone interested in a flavor of BASIC try my version of BWaterBasic for Linux, Windows and DOS athttps://yeolpishack.net/repos/KenUnix/BwBasic It's pretty fast. Full source and DOCs are also there. Ken On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 7:05 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, 1 May 2024,

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

Considering the time that it was introduced to the world, and what it was intended to do, and what it did do, and how it went on to become something much, much greater than what Kemeny and Kurtz ever envisioned (even though they didn't like much of it), BASIC does not get nearly as much credit as

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Wed, 1 May 2024, Mike Katz wrote: I'm sorry but the original BASIC as run on the Dartmouth Time Sharing System was compiled. I wasn't around Dartmouth, and my first experiences with BASIC were all interpreted. I had run a trivial program in it on a Silent 700 connected through a phone

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

I'm sorry but the original BASIC as run on the Dartmouth Time Sharing System was compiled. On 5/1/2024 5:26 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: On Wed, 1 May 2024, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: Nostalgia keeps pressing ahead: It was 60 yrs. ago that BASIC came into existence. I remember

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

IMHO, “C” nomenclature really screwed up the equality vs assignment statements. The == made it difficult to understand especially if you came from a language that didn’t have it. Basically all languages before “C”. Sent from my iPhone > On May 1, 2024, at 15:39, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

I remember that one of the changes that "street" BASICs made was to make the keyword "LET" be optional. Thus, instead of writing LET X = 3 you could write X = 3 unfortunately, that further confused the issue of ASSIGNMENT versus EQUALITY, and many beginners tried to write 3 = X while they

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

On Wed, 1 May 2024, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: Nostalgia keeps pressing ahead: It was 60 yrs. ago that BASIC came into existence. I remember very well writing in Apple Basic and GW Basic later on. As a non-compiled OS, an interpreted OS, it was just the right tool for a microcomputer

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

The Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code (BASIC) Developed by John G. Kemeny and Thomas E. Kurtz at Dartmouth College in 1963.  This ran on the Dartmouth Time Sharing System (DTSS) which was an early time sharing system running on Honeywell and GE Main Frames with Datanet systems