> From: Josh Dersch
> I recently picked up a copy of the PDP-11/60 Processor Handbook, not
> sure if that's useful for your research
Yes, it almost certainly is (without seeing it, I can't be 100%, but it sounds
like it is). Is it by any chance EK-KD11K-TM-001?
Thanks!
Noel
> From: Grant Taylor
> I agree with your logic.
> However your valid logic
Anyone who thinks logic starting from common sense has anything to do with
the workings of legal systems is likely in for a rude awakening at some
point.
Noel
> From: Brent Hilpert
>>> Back in 1965 Jack Kilby, Jerry Merryman and James Van Tassel at texas
>>> Instruments created an integrated circuit designed to replace the
>>> calulator. Historians, though not all, credit this development as the
>>> beginning of the
> From: Zane Healy
> Based on his area code, he's in Virginia, near Washington DC. So far
> enough that I can't be tempted
That's a small enough machine that it wouldn't cost much to ship (via
Pak-Mail or similar, if the current owner's not up for dealing with shipping).
I'm not too
> From: Bill Gunshannon
> What about all the cross compilers that ran on PDP-11's?
Good point; by coincidence, I just found the stuff about the 68K
cross-compiler from Alcyon (in San Diego) which we used at Proteon;
it ran on an -11/73 running Ultrix.
According to the ad sheet, it also
> From: Fritz Mueller
> is it possible for you deduce where Unix _should_ be placing these "bad"
> bits (from file offset octal 4220)?
Yes, it's quite simple: just add the virtual address in the code to the
physical address of the bottom of the text segment (given in UISA0). The VA
> From: Brent Hilpert
> what about the refresh circuitry of the memory board?
> ...
> It might also explain why a number of 4116s were (apparently) failing
> earlier in the efforts ... replacing them might have just replaced them
> with 'slightly better' chips, i.e. with a
> From: Phil Pemberton
> * Anything not on this list ;)
The TRIX project at MIT-LCS did a 68K compiler very early on (soon after the
first 68K wa released)x, using Steve Johnson's Portable C Compiler as a base.
Noel
> From: Mattis Lind
>> we've also looked at what's in memory at that location, and the low
>> part of the text segment seems to be correct, but there was junk at
>> the top, around the target of the JSR (i.e. at 'csv'). Not just one
>> word, but everything around that location
For those who are intrigued by the VAX-11/780, here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/321399703349
If you can't have a real 780, at least you can have the prints! :-)
Noel
> From: Al Kossow
> I have a source tape. I'm trying to figure out why modern tar doesn't
> understand it.
I had an issue reading some TAR's of Unix V7 stuff; I brought up an older
version of TAR under Windoze and they read fine with it. I don't recall if I
figured out what the
> From: Fritz Mueller
> This seems the best place to start with the LA this weekend then.
I'm going to respectfully semi-disagree! I think that at this point there's a
good chance we can localize to within a gate or two before we start applying
test instuments.
My thinking starts with
> From: Alan Frisbie
> I am finding this entire discussion extremely fascinating! Every day I
> look forward to reading the latest twists in the plot.
:-)
> The ideas, hunches, tests, dead ends, and results are an excellent
> example of the debugging process.
Yeah, and it
> From: Alan Frisbie
> I am finding this entire discussion extremely fascinating! Every day I
> look forward to reading the latest twists in the plot.
I forgot to mention the most amazing part of the whole story: he first
acquired the machine while he was a student (I think?) at CMU,
> From: Jerry Weiss
> I am trying to understand how the diagnostics didn't reveal this defect.
Vondada #12: "Diagnostics are highly efficient in finding solved problems." :-)
Noel
> From: Jon Elson
> Likely some disk controllers did NOT SUPPORT crossing 64K boundaries!
No; the RK11 spec says "[the two extended memory bits] make up a two-bit
counter that increments each time the RKBA overflows".
The actual error turns out to be slightly different to my guess;
> From: Jerry Weiss
> Though not a disk controller, the DEC DR11-B/DA11-B would not cross 64K
> boundaries.
Interesting! What's odd is that the DR11-B uses the Bus Interface card (M7219)
from the RC11 controller, and that _can_ cross moby boundaries, so clearly it
has the right
> From: Alan Frisbie
> Harbor Freight sells a nice hydraulic lift table for under $200 that I
> have found very useful for that sort of thing. It doesn't go up very high
> (like for the top of a rack), but I used it with some wood blocks
Thanks for the tip! I got one on sale for
> From: Jerry Weiss
> it is impressive that UNIX booted successfully without tripping over a
> boundary.
Well, V6 is (or can be configured to be) extraordinarily small, so I'm not
surprised it booted OK without going over the 017 mark.
I have this persistent memory that the
> From: Paul Koning
> Studied it for a while, took out a small hammer, whacked the device at
> some spot, and reported "fixed".
That reminds me of an amusing story from the first time I went to see 'Star
Wars; I went with a group of people from Tech Sq. It has that scene where
> From: Paul Koning
> or a backup team of subsystem experts at the home office to call on.
Actually, the actual hardware problem wasn't too hard for Fritz to find, I
gather, once we knew exactly was failing (the RK11), and how (at 017, the
XM incremented). It's not like it was a
> From: Jon Elson
> I'm thinking it is bad memory. ... I think it is just a bad memory chip
Nothing so simple, I'm afraid! The memory actually contains:
PA:171600: 016162 004767 000224 000414 016700 016152 016702 016144
and it's _supposed_ to be holding:
PA:171600: 110024 010400
> From: Fritz Mueller
> It looks like the question boils down to either "how did that part of
> the binary get to that part of memory?", or "how did we end up
> executing out of that part of memory?"
More the former, I think.
UISA0 contains 001614, and physical memory at 0161400
If anyone out there needs an EIA distribution panel to go with their
DZ11, here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/321225351590
are some of the 8-line ones (as used in the later modular back panel
system). The seller (Efi) is good people.
Noel
> From: Grant Taylor
> I do know that there are a lot of companies here in the US that are
> filtering their website like this.
It does go both ways; a while back, a vintage rail site I read regularly
('Weekend Rails') moved to a new hosting service, and that service filtered
out and
> From: Fritz Mueller
> If, as you are suspecting, we find damning evidence pointing
> specifically to the RK11
I got an update from Fritz. As you all will recall, the problem seemed to be
a corrupted 'pure text'. So the question was 'when was it damaged, and how'.
After some
From: Jay Jaeger
> Here is what I have for drawings:
Wow. You have some very desirable stuff there! Let me point at a couple
of things of particular interest:
> B-TC-FP11-C-6 FP11-C (Print Set MP00038) December 75
> [M8126, M8127, M8128, M8129]
AFAIK, prints for the FP11-C are
Does anyone know what the difference is between the M8290 and M8291 versions
of the CR11? The only version of the CR11 manual online only seems to cover
the M8290?
Noel
> From: Bill Gunshannon
> Why did none of the available PDP-11 Unixes support the TU-58?
> I have looked at Ultrix-11, V7M and BSD 2.11
The 'TUHS' list might be more likely turn up the reasoning?
Noel
> From: Fritz Mueller
> I've had a bit of time in front of the machine to repro this and take a
> look. What I actually see is:
> R0 10
> R1 0
> R2 0
> R3 0
> R4 0
> R5 34
> R6 141774
> PC 000254
Argh. (Very red face!)
I worked out the trap stack
So I've been helping Fritz look into his -11/45 problem, and things have
gotten to a point where I'd like to reach out for help, more eyes, etc.
I have to say, I spent almost a decade at the start of my career working on
PDP-11 hardware ('new build' DMA devices, as well as fixing broken stuff),
> From: Paul Koning
> Another possibility occurs to me: bad bits in the MMU (UISAR0 register
> ... if UISAR0 has a stuck bit so the "plain" case maps incorrectly
> you'd expect to come up with execution that looks nothing at all like
> what was intended.
One would hope that
> From: Fritz Mueller
> those PDP-11's have their toggles set for V6 single-user boot! :-)
Very observant! (Although I guess you've been using that a lot recently! :-)
> From: Paul Koning
> Was the 11/74 ever shipped?
I don't think so. (Well, I vaguely recall rumours of a
> From: Jon Elson
> Does the MMU classify what the error condition was
Yes, there are a series of bits in SSR0 to indicate the particular error:
'non-resident', 'length', 'read-only', etc (and also the segment number the
error's from). As my message mentioned, we're seeing the 'length'
> From: Wayne S
> it might be a wonky filesystem. ...
> The corruption probably came because the entire disk was going bad.
This theory is contradicted by the fact (mentioned several times, including in
the message you were replying to) that doing a plain 'ls' bombs, but 'sleep
300
> From: Jay Jaeger
> This sort of situation, where DEC diagnostics run OK but UNIX has issues
> was reported to be not all that uncommon - to the point where the urban
> legend was that some DEC FE's would fire up Unix V6 as a sort of system
> exerciser.
Amusing! Never heard
> From: Cindy Croxton
> I changed email providers, and received no emails for a week. If you
> tried to contact me, please ask again!
Perhaps 'test' was not an optimal Subject: line - a lot of people think that
flags a message they can ignore, and not even look at - which was not
> From: Charles Morris
> it appears that the RXV21 will only work with an RX02 drive...
So an RX02 can be jumpered to work with the non-DMA RXV11; but the DMA RXV21
can't be configured to work with an RX01. Which of these two is a more
interesting/useful thing to be able to do?
People
> From: Christian Corti
> 3710 Euro... someone with definitely too much money ... So no, we did
> not get the system, and it probably won't go into a museum.
Well, I did send you email offering to contribute, to help you all buy it.
Did my email not make it to you?
Noel
> From: W2HX
> i have a few CPUs available to me, a 11/23+, an 11/73 and I also have
> available to me an 11/83
> I would like to try to run as many different OS's as may interest me,
> including some unixes as possible (bsd...etc).
Early Unixes in general will run on those
> From: Rod Smallwood
> 4. I need a tried and tested list of step by step instructions to
> put RD54.dsk on the SCSI drive.
Well, this isn't a list of directions, but... I've had good luck doing
almost this exact same thing (on a Windows XP box, copy a filesystem in
Windoze file onto
> From: Holm Tiffe
> You have to have an already existing parition structure on the disk and
> an OS that knows what todo with that.
The "--list" command to 'dd' gives a whole bunch of stuff:
Win32 Available Volume Information
\\.\Volume{cd4ae459-0daa-11e2-9625-806d6172696f}\
Hi, sorry about the delayed reply; been dealing with this:
http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/jpg/backoak/WholeTreeS.jpg
The cranes arrive tomorrow...
> I took a look at all the lines you mentioned. BDAL3-13, BDIN, BSYNC, and
> BBS7 are all active and jump around in some manner.
Hmm.
> From: Systems_Glitch
> I believe the big difference was in the current-supplying capability on
> the +15V rail -- 1A vs. 4A.
Ah, thanks for the tip.
I have an H742, so I was exable to examine it, and the 5409730 (difference
details on that below). The transformer may also be
> From: Mister PDP
> Wow, I wasn't aware that the ODT console needed memory to run.
It was news to me too! (And apparently to most others here too?)
I was going to look at those confusing bus cycles, using an only slightly
mis-addressed console, and wanted to first check that that
> From: Josh Dersch
> how is the backplane in the H11 currently configured? (i.e. what boards
> are in what slots?) Could the issue here be something as simple as a
> break in the qbus due to a misplaced board?
He did mention that he had the console card in the slot next to the
> From: Systems Glitch
> I finally fixed the power supply in my PDP-11/10S ... For those who
> have original 5411086s that haven't failed yet, you might want to
> make up a little pigtail with an inline fuse holder.
Congratulations, and a great blog write-up.
The issue you point
> From: Paul Anderson
>> (I also should check to see if the H742 uses the same 15V board; it
>> uses the same 'bricks', so it may.)
> Didn't the H7420 , which replaced the H742, use that also? The H742 uses
> a different one .
Oooh, good catch! The H742 uses a 5409730, but
> From: Holm Tiffe
>> The "--list" command to 'dd' gives a whole bunch of stuff:
> aha:
> $ dd --list
> dd: unknown operand --list
I was talking about the program I had mentioned in the previous email, "dd
for Windows". The "--list" command to it produced that long list of
> From: Liam Proven
> There was a certain simplicity and understandability about Win9x,
> yes, but NT was far more reliable, even back in the NT 3 era. ..
> So I moved to NT as soon as my kit could run it, and never looked
> back.
I was speaking from a user's perspective; I
> From: Alan Perry
> a chance to see and touch something that I haven't seen in decades
> that was once a big part of my life.
I know exactly what you mean. PDP-11's were a huge part of my professional
life:
-11/20: the first computer I actually used, in high school
-11/45:
> From: Lawrence Wilkinson
> Nothing to report other than what's at https://ibms360.co.uk
Any partial results in trying to figure out a way to get all the
stuff back from Nuremberg?
You all may wind up having to rent a large truck yourselves, alas...
Noel
> From: Cindy Croxton
> I have a large qty to donate
Roughly what does it go to - old PC's; Windows boxes; etc?
Noel
> From: Allison
> ODT for the two systems are very different. .. KDF-11 the ODT is part
> of the higher level code. The larger cards (11/23 and 23+) boot to
> resident (ep)rom.
Ah, no. (Well, the KDF11 CPU's can boot to EPROM, which in the -11/23+ can be
on the CPU card; the
> From: Jim Brain
> Probably too light for folks in here, but maybe some will find some
> interest
Good high-level view of the importance of the AGC work.
For those who want technical details, there's a Web-site (I can dig up the
URL if anyone wants) about the recovery of the
> From: Joe Zatarski
> OK, so where should a thing like this go: ... Anybody got a decent
> place to upload that?
As always, the CHWiki is available for any vintage computer stuff. I can
set up an account for anyone here who wants one.
I have posted similar information for PDP-11
> From: Steve Malikoff
>> According to this page that Dennis Ritchie wrote ...
>> https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/picture.html
> It states that their 11/20 had a KS-11 memory management unit, was
> that mandatory for running v1 Unix on an 11/20?
Well, the page does say
> From: Al Kossow
> It is in the Dick Best Options and Modules List 197503
Ah, thanks for the pointer; I see it's listed as a "Memory Extension
Control" - not sure that tells me much, alas!
Interestingly, it's not in the earlier Options and Modules lists, e.g.
June '74, but the KS11 is
> From: Al Kossow
> Does anyone know where Steve Rothman is?
And also Bill Weiske, who's listed as the go-to for the KS11.
Noel
> From: Allison
>> "The console emulator Octal Debugging Technique (ODT)is a portion of
>> the processor microcode ... The console ODT implemented on the
LSI-11/23,
>> PDP-11/23 and PDP-11/23-PLUS is identical."
> However LSI-11/23 whatever that is, typo?
No, that's
> From: Liam Proven
> This is what makes a PDP-11/35 or PDP-11/40 tick. It turns out to be
> 441 ICs.
I wondered if it was fair to list the DEC 23B00A2, etc that hold the ucode
as separate parts; they might have been a bunch of 256x4 PROMs, and the
separate part numbers were just for
> From: Liam Proven
> Now, my tablet and iPhone and Android phones need *at least* 3 or 4
> apps updating every day. ... The OS needs to be replaced every month
> or two to fix all the flaws in it, and that's a gigabyte or so of
> storage.
> I am *furious* about this.
So, a couple of posts yesterday did not show up in the date archive:
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2019-June/date.html
which is how I read the list. They are:
Software for Fairy YL-23 IC tester wanted
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2019-June/048094.html
> From: Ray Jewhurst
> I would really like to get my own classic computer but I don't know
> where to begin.
Two questions you need to sort out in your mind, to decide, are i) do you
want something with a bit-mapped video screen, or are you happy with ASCII
serial line only, and ii)
> From: Joe Zatarski joezatarski at gmail.com
> The posts you mentioned were sent to cctech. .. that list is
> moderated .. You'll notice these posts are now in both archives.
Ah, that could be it. I thought I'd found them in the Subject: thread
archive at the same time they
> From: Bob Smith
> there have been refs to another more modern unit, based on LSI[-]11
> or later chip set
I've never heard of that, and I wonder if DEC would really have released
a new product with the same name as an old one (the two PDP-11/10's
are different, as I'm not sure many
A follow-up to close out something:
> OK, now a picture of the bus with no console card:
> http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/jpg/BSYN-BDAL_NoMem.jpg
[Note: image re-named, to correctly say what it's showing]
> It's a bit hard to interpret what's going on here .. The long
As a result of an inventory error on my part, I wound up with an extra copy
of "LSI-11, PDP-11/03 User's Manual" (EK-LSI11-TM-003).
I'd like to pass it along to someone, provided I'm reimbursed _most_ of
my eBait expenditure on it (it was not, alas, cheap). Anyone interested?
Noel
> From: Mister PDP
> the 'Run' light does not come on when the switch is toggled
Yeah, it wouldn't come on full unless it somehow fell into a loop of some
kind - very unlikely. (Does that model LSI-11 have the on-board memory? I'm
too lazy to look it up! :-) And what do you have the CPU
> From: Mister PDP
> I was wondering if any in depth troubleshooting material existed online
I am not aware of any; I would be glad to be corrected. Unlike the early
gneration of UNIBUS CPU's, these generally weren't intended for internal
fault analysis and repair - module swapping and
From: Paul Anderson
> They did make the RT100, RT340, etc. which were rugidized versions or
> the VTs.
We also ran into a VT52 (I think, although possibly it was a VT100) which
apparently had been TEMPEST secured; the inside of the casing had been
coated with a metallic film. (Or
> From: Glen Slick
> According to the M7270 LSI-11/2 Microcomputer Module User's Guid[e],
> it uses BC1, BD1, BE1, BF1 for SCLK3 H, SWMIB18 H, SWMIB19 H, SWMIB20 H.
Oh, thanks! I wonder how I missed that, looking at the prints? (The
drawings have these nice dark arrowheads to
> On the LSI-11/2, with the machine stopped, 'run' was off, and the
> output on AF1/AH1 was always high (i.e. not asserted).
> I don't have any guesses as to what the behaviour of yours is about.
Hah! Eureka! I had a brainwave, and decided to look at my machine with
the serial console
> From: Jon Elson
> Yes, this is most likely a bus timeout
The good news is that it looks like his CPU is 'mostly' working; and if
the NXM is due to a fault on the CPU (e.g. bad bus transceiver sending
the wrong address), that would be fixable (it uses 8641's).
If the fault is in the
> From: Jos Dreesen
> And so the story continues
> https://ibms360.co.uk/
Wow, what a great recover, and a great site documenting it!
Renting temporary local storage was a great idea; it would have been hard
to get all that out of there on schedule any other way. (Alas, I don't
> From: Ed Cross
> I saw a mystery PDP-11 in the garage that I believe to be an 11/70.
Yeah, I think so; someone has transplanted a few red/purple toggles into it
(perhaps some of the original blues got broken), but it's a /70 front panel,
which won't (without major kludging/surgery)
> From: Mister PDP
> After a day of confusing and mixed up signals (I don't really use
> this type of equipment very often) .. I switched over to the
> oscilloscope
Don't feel bad, I too prefer to rely on an oscilloscope by default; not
only does it let you see what's really
> From: Mister PDP
Well, I verified that the LSI-11/2 should work in a Q22 backplane -
in the sense that the only pins it tries to talk to are standard
QBUS pins, and AF1/AH1 for SRUN. It doesn't drive BREF, which might
cause issues in later QBUS systems.
Although it's a different board from
> From: Jules Richardson
> On 5/15/19 9:29 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote:
>> Here's the Industrial 11 version of the 11/05
There's an Industrial 11 version of the -11/70, too:
http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/consoles/1170IndustCenter.jpg
So the only one missing
> although the /35 was _usually_ supplied in a BA11-D 10-1/2" box
Oh, that should be 'early units in the BA11-D; later ones used the BA11-K'.
Noel
> From: Paul Anderson
>> although the /35 was _usually_ supplied in a BA11-D 10-1/2" box
> I'm pretty sure the 11/35 came in a F box too.
That would be why I said "usually"! :-)
Noel
> From: John Foust
> I missed the start of this discussion... exactly why did you want to
> rely on a wireless connection and couldn't string a network cable?
The list archive:
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/
is your friend. (That's actually how I read it, so my
> From: Zane Healy
> How safe is it to put modern rack rails (HP) in a classic DEC Rack?
May I ask why you're doing that? Are you trying to mount modern units
in an old rack?
If you're trying to mount old units (RK05's, BA11's, etc) in an old rack,
I've been working on finding old
> From: R. Stricklin
> I saved a copy in 2012. ... Grab them while you still can.
The tendency of links to go bad is momumental; the probability of it
happening over long time periods seems to asymtotically approach 1.0.
So everyone ought to make a habit of down-loading a copy of
> From: Allison
> Experience is that an 11/23 or 23+ will run V6 as mine does.
What changes did you make to get it to run? (I assume the stock binary
wouldn't run.)
Noel
> From: Jon Elson
> As soon as somebody figured out that you could combine the sense and
> inhibit wires, everybody immediately went to 3-wire planes.
I"m suprised the idea wasn't patented. Or maybe it was, and they made the
license widely available at modest terms?
Noel
> From: Curious Marc
> I believe 3 wire memory was first introduced by IBM in their 360
> systems ... They would almost certainly have patented their way to do it
Correct (and your knowledge and memory is good)! Motivated by this clue, I
looked in:
Emerson W. Pugh,
> From: Mister PDP
> I have this DEC M8017-AA / DLV11 module that I am trying to configure
> ... the only manuals or resources I can seem to scrounge up are for the
> DLV11-E, DLV11-F, and DLV11-J.
> If anybody knows what the jumper settings are, or where I can find
> them
> From: Mister PDP
> reading through the "DLV11-E and DLV11-F asynchronous line interface
> user's manual", the diagrams of the DLV11-E and F do not line up my
> module.
Oh, must be a later board rev, one that's not covered in EK-DLV11-OP-001.
(I should have compared your pic
H960 (rack only, really, although it looks like there are two NA11-N/S sheaths
as well):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/123729450695
Not a bad price; pick-up only though (just as well, considering how much it
costs to ship the blasted things).
Noel
> From: Tomasz Rola
> Is it really down?
I suppose this is actually good news, in a way - someone must have been
trying to use it, to notice that it was down! :-)
So let me take this opportunity to appeal once again for people to contribute
content; I've added a lot of PDP-11 stuff, and
> Tomasz Rola
> However, I have added this line to my /etc/hosts:
L-rd, I must be getting old - it never dawned on me to do that. Anyway,
that shows the server was fine, it was just the missing DNS entry.
Back now.
Noel
> From: Liam Proven
> This is *epic*.
Indeed. I was blown away by the complexity of his technique for reading
the digits.
I can't believe there wasn't a much easier technique, though, e.g. using a
logic analyzer and a small program to read through the ROS!
Perhaps the challenge of
> From: Eric Smith
> two separate backplanes that are combined for the RH20s (if
> present), one backplane for the A through D positions (upper 2/3 of
> each module slot), and one for E and F.
How odd. DEC was quite happy to do hex backplanes elsewhere, and it looks
from the
> From: Nigel Johnson
> Anybody have any docs on the DEC LSI 11/93 (KDJ11-E)?
Info on the -E is thin on the ground. The User's Manual (EK-KDJ1E-UG-001)
is available online, though, which is a start - it gives info on how to
configure it, etc.
> I am trying to run it in a BA23
> From: Evan Koblentz
> what the owners plan to do in the future.
Sell the Apple I and retire to a tropical island on the proceeds, if
they have any sense! :-)
Noel
> So my new theory is that it's the MBox (either the backplane, the
> boards, or the wiring from it to connectors, etc) that is the difference
> between the KL10-A and the KL10-B.
So I wuz confused; the second backplane is not the MBox (which is apparently
on the main CPU backplane),
> From: Diane Bruce
> Works fine.
Probably a left-over cached entry; neither my ISP's DNS, nor MIT's ("Host
gunkies.org not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)") can resolve it at the moment.
One year Tore was off hiking or something, and it took a few days, but past
experience is that he will get to
> From: Tomasz Rola
> Is it really down? Could it come back?
Tore forgot to pay the bill for his DNS entry; this is the third year in a row
the exact same thing has happened, on the exact same date! :-) :-( I've
already sent him an email about it, this morning; hopefully he'll get with
So I'm a little puzzled by something, and I was wondering if anyone
here knows the answer.
So early KL10's (KL10-A's, to be precise) only support a single DTE20, and
no RH20's. Later ones supported up to 4 of the former, and up to 8 of the
latter.
I always supposed this to be part and parcel of
501 - 600 of 888 matches
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