Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread Joel Wirāmu Pauling
The tendency has been (I am also guilty of this) to go down the route of 'here I made this $bandwidth test' using some $combination_of_scripts - tell users to use this It's better and more reflective of what users should be testing for" That route is the one I am kinda trying to steer away from,

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread Jonathan Morton
On 12 Sep, 2014, at 4:49 am, Joel Wirāmu Pauling wrote: > So if ookla implemented a udp based test, changed it's statical weighting and > data mining methods overnight. At least in NZ that might help. Isn't that the whole point of this discussion? - Jonathan Morton _

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread Rich Brown
Jonathan, > Could we make use of the existing test servers (running netperf) for that > demonstration? How hard is the protocol to fake in Javascript? Not having coded a stitch of this, I *think* it would require the following: - Web page on netperf-xxx.bufferbloat.net that served out the java

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread Joel Wirāmu Pauling
Changing to better test suites isn't the answer, I know I've tried a lot to educate and push for bespoke test sites for our customers . This is all about happy illusions on the user side. This is a branding and markets problem. In NZ, 'the' site for reference that users go to is speedtest. Becaus

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread dpreed
The speedof.me API probably can be used directly as the measurement of download and upload - you can create a competing download or upload in Javascript using a WebWorker talking to another server that supports the websocket API to force buffer overflow. (sort of poor man's RRUL). The speedo

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread Jonathan Morton
On 12 Sep, 2014, at 3:35 am, dpr...@reed.com wrote: > Among friends of mine, we can publicize this widely. But those friends > probably would like to see how the measurement would work. Could we make use of the existing test servers (running netperf) for that demonstration? How hard is the p

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread dpreed
Among friends of mine, we can publicize this widely. But those friends probably would like to see how the measurement would work. On Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:13pm, "Rich Brown" said: > ___ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread dpreed
I will sign. It would be better if we had an actual demonstration of how to implement a speedtest improvement. On Thursday, September 11, 2014 12:03pm, "Dave Taht" said: > The theme of networks being "engineered for speedtest" has been a > common thread in nearly every conversation I've

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread Rich Brown
Dave, I'll sign too. (And I like the 98th percentile measure for each direction to give a single number that represents what's happening. It could include ping loss rate, as well...) But more importantly, an open letter would likely be more powerful than the results I got from sending a note t

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Updates to the "Setting up an interior gateway router" page.

2014-09-11 Thread Theodore Ts'o
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 04:06:33PM -0400, Jim Gettys wrote: > > We need a volunteer to write an installation page for those demented enough > to want to run CeroWrt in bridging mode, or at an alternate minimum, a page > to explain to people why they really don't want to do that ;-). Or someone to

[Cerowrt-devel] Updates to the "Setting up an interior gateway router" page.

2014-09-11 Thread Jim Gettys
​ My exterior router has now been up for 40 days; bug 442 seems well and truly dead! I seldom survived more then 24 hours before 3.10.50. I've started reconstituting my network empire, which had withered to a single router to ensure I could reproduce 442 unambiguously and as quickly as possible f

[Cerowrt-devel] "unreachable" feature request for openwrt /etc/config/network or /etc/config/firewall

2014-09-11 Thread Dave Taht
I use the ip "unreachable" mechanism to export a covering route for babel in cerowrt, so I don't have to export all the /27s, just the /24, to other routers. I am presently dumping that one line of code into /etc/firewall.user e.g.: ip route add unreachable 172.30.42.0/24 proto static and runnin

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread David Personette
FWIW, I'll sign it. -- Please excuse my brevity, this was sent from my Android. On Sep 11, 2014 2:20 PM, "Maciej Soltysiak" wrote: > On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 6:03 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > > If Verizon can petition the FCC to change the definition of > > broadband... why can't we petition speedtes

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread Maciej Soltysiak
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 6:03 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > If Verizon can petition the FCC to change the definition of > broadband... why can't we petition speedtest to *change their test*? > Switching to merely reporting the 98th percentile results for ping > during an upload or download, instead of the

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] IEEE 802.11 meeting sept 14-21 athens, greece

2014-09-11 Thread Dave Taht
Two bits of potential inspiration for the morning: Vint Cerf, "Bufferbloat and other Internet Challenges" http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=6886125 and for a little bit of revolutionary fervour: https://plus.google.com/u/0/107942175615993706558/posts/eG8wZh7Qshs On Wed, S

[Cerowrt-devel] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread Dave Taht
The theme of networks being "engineered for speedtest" has been a common thread in nearly every conversation I've had with ISPs and vendors using every base technology out there, be it dsl, cable, ethernet, or fiber, for the last 4 years. Perhaps, in pursuing better code, and RFCs, and the like, w

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] 10GigE nics and SFP+ modules?

2014-09-11 Thread Dave Taht
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:31 PM, wrote: > I'm confused > > > > SFP is not SFP+. SFP carries at most 4.25 Gb/sec. SFP+ works at >10 > Gb/sec. So, it's not clear that the MikroTik is very useful in a 10 Gig > world. It's not immediately clear but VERY likely, that this is an "edge > swi