That's why it was in quotes. I try to use what others have said to focus on
my points.
> Didn't some US officer say that to CBS during the Vietnam war?
>
> larry
>
> > "Sir, we had to destroy the village to save the village"
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Didn't some US officer say that to CBS during the Vietnam war?
larry
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 12:48 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: News bias
>
>
> "Sir, we had
> Actually, our viewpoints are not that different. On a personal level I
hold
> as you do. A fight is a fight and the winner gets to write the history.
(But
> when I fight, I'm fighting the person who's attacking me, not their wife
and
> kids. )
Also, I think it depends on the fight. If it's
And there's the point of this entire thread. Despite the restraint on the
side of Israel and the lack of it on the side of the Palestinians, the moral
justification is being skewed by news agencies by their use of language.
A terrorist is a bad guy, a militant can be seen as a good guy. Blow up
inn
You can also die with honor and win...just to add a twist.
-Original Message-
From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 1:07 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: News bias
While I understand the "win by any means" mindset (it was how I too was
Actually, our viewpoints are not that different. On a personal level I hold
as you do. A fight is a fight and the winner gets to write the history. (But
when I fight, I'm fighting the person who's attacking me, not their wife and
kids. )
Problem is, I also think in the large scale and we as humans
While I understand the "win by any means" mindset (it was how I too was
taught), I think restraint gives credence to moral justification for the
violence in the first place. It is what is refered to as "honor on the
battlefield".
Is it better to die with honor or to win? And what is winning?
-Kev
I think I stated my position clearly enough Mike. We are way past
the original issue of whether someone is a terrorist or not. You and I
obviosuly have differing viewpoints of the morality and effectiveness of
whatever strategy a side uses to win its war.
"Sir, we had to destroy the vill
"Sir, we had to destroy the village to save the village"
So we should do away with the Geneva convention as it really doesn't matter.
We should do away with any war crimes tribunals as all's fair in any fight
as any fight is a war. If you have to rape the cows, kill the woman and
drink their blood,
Now I'm gettin all misty.. ;-)
-Original Message-
From: Heald, Tim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 12:39 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: News bias
I have to say I am with you man.
--
Timothy Heald
Web Portfolio Manager
Overseas Security Advisory Co
opinions been approved or sanctioned by these organizations. This e-mail is
unclassified based on the definitions in E.O. 12958.
-Original Message-
From: John Stanley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 12:30 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: News bias
>> You'l
I was thinking the same thing.
-Original Message-
From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 12:24 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: News bias
Where can I get aphrodisiac laced gum? :-)
-Kevin
> Can you point me to the references. I have no prob
anyone saying, boy I wish I could have faced a miltary tribunal instead of
that testy jury that convicted me.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 12:20 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: News bias
So all I have to do is kill people
>> You'll excuse me when I say this, but your rather sick. Using a child to
>> transport a weapon of death is reprehensible and has no place in 'war'.
But it does happen and is a fact of warfare.
>> Red Dawn was a movie, this is real life. Are you now saying that the
kid should
>> be shot
I wish I knew. I've got lots of 'warfare' related uses for it. :)
> Where can I get aphrodisiac laced gum? :-)
>
> -Kevin
>
> > Can you point me to the references. I have no problem changing my
> > perspective on their activities, but I need proof. This is more
important
> > now than ever as I've
> That said, a significant part of the problem is that many are trapped by
the
> past and past events. That is why I suggest depopulating the area and
> starting over again. Perhaps move the Serbs to Israel, the Northern Irish
> Catholics to Rwanda, and the Tutsis of Rwanda to Serbia. That way all
Where can I get aphrodisiac laced gum? :-)
-Kevin
> Can you point me to the references. I have no problem changing my
> perspective on their activities, but I need proof. This is more important
> now than ever as I've also heard tales told of how Israel sends gum laced
> with aphrodisiacs to Egyp
So all I have to do is kill people, rob banks, blow stuff up and when I'm
caught claim it's all part of a war? "I'm from the CF milita, we're at war
with you". That's a cop-out. Where's the limit?
> As to the Malvo thing, I say no. That was a crimminal act. If it was found
> that he was a member o
You'll excuse me when I say this, but your rather sick. Using a child to
transport a weapon of death is reprehensible and has no place in 'war'. Red
Dawn was a movie, this is real life. Are you now saying that the kid should
be shot as a enemy combatant? Should all children be prevented from going
Egypt has bigger and better weapons and they set them aside (for the time
being) to make peace. Jordan did the same. Egypt got the entire sinai
peninsula from their peace deal which is worth 100 times what all of Israel
is. Jordan got huge water deals. The Palestinians would get just as much if
the
John Stanley wrote:
>
>Then I am also torn, because when I try to look at this from the Palestinian
>perspective (which I'll admit upfront I am not the most educated on). Do the
>palestinians have a legitimate beef about their land being taken?
The people in the occupied territories have legitima
>> Very true. There are many in europe using the middle east as their proxy
>> against America.
Yeah, you know alot of these cant wait to see us stumble and fall so they
can pounce on us like death incarnate. I'll bet if the US was invaded by
Grongians from outer space, that the next day the F
15, 2004 11:44 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: News bias
>>The Eu, France, etc. Hm. Arn't they supposed to be our friends? Of course,
>>Saudi Arabia is supposed to be our friend as well and we all know what
they
>>think.
Personally I think the American and Israeli list of tr
). Nor have these
opinions been approved or sanctioned by these organizations. This e-mail is
unclassified based on the definitions in E.O. 12958.
-Original Message-
From: Doug White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:41 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: News bias
d then boom.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:48 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: News bias
Large explosive device found by Israeli roadblock in 10-year old Palestinian
schoolboy's book-bag on his way home from sc
>>Terrorism, and murdering of innocent civilians, such as that which is
taking
>>place is not open warfare at all, You are sadly mistaken on this point.
Open
>>warfare is military against military.
Right. So I wont bring up the whole indian thing with the US government. Or
the razing of cities b
> >>The Eu, France, etc. Hm. Arn't they supposed to be our friends? Of
course,
> >>Saudi Arabia is supposed to be our friend as well and we all know what
> they
> >>think.
>
> Personally I think the American and Israeli list of true friends in Europe
> is suprisingly small, and even more scarce in
March 15, 2004 11:12 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: News bias
The point I was making is that the people we now know as the Palestinians
were living in the area well before the partition. Also the Jews who were
living in the area were as likely to massacre their non-Jewish neighbours as
they were l
> I'll have to look at my sources and get back to you on that one. I have
not
> looked at this issue for a while. I do know that they bombed the King
David
> Hotel, but that was used by the British administration at the time.
Yes, they did bomb the hotel which was the center of the British military
Large explosive device found by Israeli roadblock in 10-year old Palestinian
schoolboy's book-bag on his way home from school to Nablus village. Child
held for questioning.
www.debka.com
So this is warfare?
> Sorry, but I disagree. I think it is warfare. To me, its all the same.
> Whether it is t
ED]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:26 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: News bias
So your saying that the Palestinians are at war with Israel and Israel
should kill them all? That's what people do in war. Problem is, this is not
war. This is a conflict between terrorists and Israel with t
Actually, by your own words, the Jews were retaliating, not starting the
killings. That seems to be the pattern. Have Jews attacked anyone in France?
Yes, Irgun and Stern were terrorists by that days mores but by todays they
are lightweights. As for Sharon, I'd like to see evidence, not just hears
ilto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:35 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: News bias
>
>
> Can you point me to the references. I have no problem
> changing my perspective on their activities, but I need
> proof. This is more important now than ever
Maybe I am diluting it, in your viewpoint, but in someone elses maybe I am
asking a pertinent question. I'm not saying that what has happened countless
times in Israel isn't wrong, or reprehensible. I am saying that to anothers
viewpoint it is open warfare, and that is all.
Terrorism, and murderin
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:26 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: News bias
So your saying that the Palestinians are at war with Israel and Israel
should kill them all? That's what people do in war. Problem is, th
Can you point me to the references. I have no problem changing my
perspective on their activities, but I need proof. This is more important
now than ever as I've also heard tales told of how Israel sends gum laced
with aphrodisiacs to Egypt to corrupt their children and uses poison gas on
Palestini
Problem is that he's financed by the 'friends' of America ranging from the
EU to Saudi Arabia and beyond. With money comes political control.
> Alas, a large part of the problem. Arafat is no leader, and I fear that
there is no true hope for peace until that grizzled thug leaves our
company.
>
>
So your saying that the Palestinians are at war with Israel and Israel
should kill them all? That's what people do in war. Problem is, this is not
war. This is a conflict between terrorists and Israel with the mass of
Palestinians over on the side cheering.
> >>Bottom line is that when murderous t
> 2. Irgun never attacked women and children, only military targets and
always
> warned before (not after) a blast.
I'll just politely say that what I've read differs from your account.
-Kevin
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> Subject: Re: News bias
>
>
> Well, I don't know who did it, but my dad (who was there in
> '48) tells a slightly different story, one in which women,
> children, and everyone else most certainly _were_ killed.
> Different sides to every story
Alas, a large part of the problem. Arafat is no leader, and I fear that there is no true hope for peace until that grizzled thug leaves our company.
>All Arafat has to do (if he is a leader or even in control) is
>stop the terrorists rather than pay them.
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Well, I don't know who did it, but my dad (who was there in '48) tells a slightly different story, one in which women, children, and everyone else most certainly _were_ killed. Different sides to every story...
>2. Irgun never attacked women and children, only military targets and always
>warned b
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:56 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: News bias
>
>
> 1. Israel returned most of the land from the wars in return
> for peace. 2. Jews have been living there for the same time
> and earlier (when not killed
> Romans drove out the Jews in what is refered to as the Diaspora.
Not all, just most.
> Ottoman Empire covers the entire region (Muslims)
And allowed many Jews to settle, especially those kicked out of Spain during
the inquisition.
> WWI. The Arabs help the English and the English establish a co
Yes, CNN was one of the only ones who did so. All the others white washed
it. CNN said what it was.
I'm not speaking on the rights or wrongs of the situation in Israel here.
I'm speaking on how news agencies are presenting it. I see a distinct
difference between a strike on a millitary complex and
>>Bottom line is that when murderous thugs are attacking and killing unarmed
>>women and children, then it's terrorism.
Sorry, but I disagree. I think it is warfare. To me, its all the same.
Whether it is the US carpet bombing Dresden, killing hundreds every week
(probably alot more than that),
1. Israel returned most of the land from the wars in return for peace.
2. Jews have been living there for the same time and earlier (when not
killed by crusaders, Muslim mobs, etc.)
3. The amount of Arabs living in the area were very low in comparison to all
that claim it now. All you need is a rel
Jews, Bedouins, and misc. Arabs. We're not talking a country that existed
before Israel, we're talking an expanse of deserts, marshes and a few
ancient cities. The Bedouins have accepted the reality of the situation and
have integrated into Israeli society and even hold high ranks in the
military a
Yes and no. The land in question, including what is now Jordan was set
asside by the league of nations to be a Jewish homeland. After land was
peeled off and peeled off again and again all Israel got was a sliver of
nothing. And even that was to much for the Arabs. Do they have a beef? Did
they hav
IL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:35 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: News bias
> So who lived in that area before the formation of Isreal? I dont know who
> did, I am just asking. Did they live there because they had taken the land
> from the Jews in recent history, or was t
> So who lived in that area before the formation of Isreal? I dont know who
> did, I am just asking. Did they live there because they had taken the land
> from the Jews in recent history, or was this part of another country that
> was annexed by the formation of Isreal?
Very, very rough:
Romans d
Mike,
I know that you are passionate about this, but some perspective...
The attacks in Spain were the worst in that country's history, by far. They were Spain's "9/11" if you will. Further, while there have been attacks in the past in Spain, they are not the regular occurrances that they have (s
ohn Stanley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:13 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: News bias
>
>
> Larry, thanks for the info.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lyons, Larry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004
Larry, thanks for the info.
-Original Message-
From: Lyons, Larry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:08 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: News bias
It's a bit complicated. From the early middle ages to the 12th Century, the
area was controlled by the Is
01 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: News bias
>
>
>
>
> >>There is not much justification for a "palestinian
> perspective" This because
> >>the so-called Palestinians are not native to the land, but are
> >>refugees
>
Those were my comments, but thanks for the link. ;-)
-Original Message-
From: Harkins, Patrick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:06 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: News bias
Hi Doug,
You might want to take a look at this gutsy Canadian woman's site...
Hi Doug,
You might want to take a look at this gutsy Canadian woman's site...
http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/ Or even
better, get your hands on her book. It is one of the best books I have read
in yearrs on any topic. And it doesn't have a boring word in it.
-Patrick
-Original Message---
>>There is not much justification for a "palestinian perspective" This
because
>>the so-called Palestinians are not native to the land, but are refugees
from
>>other Arab lands where they were driven out. Going back in history, the
actual
>>native Palestinians were, in fact Jews, not Arabs. The Ar
-
Please understand that the questions I am asking in this message are that,
just questions and I am not taking on side over another.
Then I am also torn, because when I try to look at this from the Palestinian
perspective (which I'll admit upfront I am not the most educated on). Do the
pale
It is sad Mike. Truth is with the anti-american sentiment throughout the
world, and the fact that Israel is such a huge ally I would think that a
large part of the world wouldn't mind seeing both of them fall on their
faces and fail miserably, even if it means a few deaths (or thousands) along
the
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