On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 11:04 US/Pacific, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Events are used for more than just GUI functionality.
>
> You can, for instance create an event listener. Then, on your web
> page, create an event that the listener picks up and acts upon.
>
> The nice thing is, the event c
Thus, to me, providing another layer of abstraction on
> top of
> this to make everything look like it's event-driven seems to be
> potentiallyfraught with hazards.
Well, I do think it works quite well. And MS themselves tell you, that if you don't
need the functionality, don't use it. They'r
> > Well, sure, but the illusion seems less illusory on a
> > desktop than in a web application. Thus, I submit that
> > it makes for a more useful model for desktop applications
> > than for HTTP applications, where the request-response
> > model sticks out like a sore thumb.
>
> Well, see, it
> Well, sure, but the illusion seems less illusory on a desktop than
> in a web
> application. Thus, I submit that it makes for a more useful model for
> desktop applications than for HTTP applications, where the request-
> responsemodel sticks out like a sore thumb.
Well, see, it's not the reque
> There is no such thing as "event driven" programming.
>
> All event driven programming, everywhere, is fake. It's an
> abstraction created so that humans can model the world
> better, and to solve certain problems.
Well, sure, but the illusion seems less illusory on a desktop than in a web
ap
No if statements
that try to figure out which button I pressed.
- Original Message -
From: Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, July 18, 2003 12:37 pm
Subject: RE: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
> > Anyhow, in terms of ASP.NET and presentation, the event model
&
> Anyhow, in terms of ASP.NET and presentation, the event model
> exists to make web development closer to traditional
> client/server development. The fact that VS.NET works well
> with it is a nicety. The event model came first; it does not
> exist for an IDE's sake.
In event-driven GUI envi
ECTED]
*
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 2:05 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
Events are used for more than just GUI functionality.
You can, for instance create an event listener.
IDE's sake.
- Original Message -
From: Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, July 18, 2003 11:34 am
Subject: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
> > You don't need VS.NET for the event model. You can write it
> > yourself.
> >
> > Wiring an even
> You don't need VS.NET for the event model. You can write it
> yourself.
>
> Wiring an event handler is extremely easy - it's one line of
> code for each event. The extra code you alluded to earlier
> is for VS.NET's benefit - it allows the IDE to know exactly
> what methods are called for an
On Thursday, Jul 17, 2003, at 11:07 US/Pacific, Angel Stewart wrote:
> Does Macromedia have a 'real world' database application example
> written
> in CF MX that would showcase the features of the CFMX suite the way
> Microsoft is using these examples to push .Net?
I'm not quite sure what you're
any given event.
I myself don't really bother to use this functionality.
- Original Message -
From: "Dave Watts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 9:58 PM
Subject: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
>
> Not at all! I've found this thread very interesting. I'm
> just trying to figure out how ASP.NET implements an event
> model using HTTP. I have Virtual PC on order, and if I ever
> get it, I might just install Visual Studio and find out
> for myself how it all works.
It doesn't implement an
It's faked. The form gets posted, and then the event is dealt with then.
- Original Message -
From: "Christian Cantrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: MSDN on CF -> ASP.n
On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 05:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> If anyone wants me too, I can also go on a nice tirade of things that
> are wrong with ASP.NET :)
Not at all! I've found this thread very interesting. I'm just trying
to figure out how ASP.NET implements an event model using
> But still, this is all presentation code. Some of it is HTML, some
> is C#,
> but it's all presentation-layer stuff. It creates and controls the
> interface. When I think of application partitioning, I usually have
> something a bit different in mind.
So do I. Codebehind is a very small, nice
> It depends on the type of changes you're making to the
> presentation layer. No system is going to help you if you
> remove the textbox from the page - you're going to have to
> make not-insignificant code changes. All architectures like
> MVC do is _minimize_ the _number_ and _impact_ of c
> It looks to me like this is just a fancy way of generating a bunch
> of
> HTML and JavaScript to give the appearance of events. When you
> talk
> about changing something at run time, do you mean that the aspx
> page is
> generating the JavaScript necessary to change elements in respons
If anyone wants me too, I can also go on a nice tirade of things that are wrong with
ASP.NET :)
- Original Message -
From: Christian Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 2:32 pm
Subject: Re: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
> It looks to me like this is just a
ed.
> btnSave.Click += new EventHandler(this.FooBar);
> }
>
> protected void FooBar(object sender, System.EventArgs e)
> {
> // Let's change the text in the button.
> btnSave.Text = "You cli
lk
Subject: RE: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
> Isn't there 3 files? The caller file, the custom file for
> codebehind, and the file that defines "button" itself. Unless
> the "button" itself is part of the application server. So, at
> worse, 3 files in CF, 2
It depends on the type of changes you're making to the presentation layer. No system
is going to help you if you remove the textbox from the page - you're going to have to
make not-insignificant code changes. All architectures like MVC do is _minimize_ the
_number_ and _impact_ of changes. It
ay, July 17, 2003 1:42 pm
Subject: RE: RE: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
> Um, so the class is what, magical fairy dust? ;) Sone had to write the
> class. A class is a file, right? Now, that being said, it's "built-in"
> to ASP
Yoda
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 1:37 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: RE: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
>
>
> There's only 2 files in ASP.NET.
>
> Remember, the button is an obj
I'd love to see CF exposed as classes. This way, you could actually override the
render method for CF, for instance.
- Original Message -
From: jon hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 1:20 pm
Subject: Re: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
> Ok, I see what you
There's only 2 files in ASP.NET.
Remember, the button is an object - an instantiation of a class. The class is part of
the .NET framework.
- Original Message -
From: Raymond Camden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 1:18 pm
Subject: RE: RE: MSDN on CF
r(this.FooBar);
}
protected void FooBar(object sender, System.EventArgs e)
{
// Let's change the text in the button.
btnSave.Text = "You clicked me!";
}
}
- Original Message -
From: Raymond Camden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 1:04 pm
Subject: RE:
> Isn't there 3 files? The caller file, the custom file for
> codebehind, and the file that defines "button" itself. Unless
> the "button" itself is part of the application server. So, at
> worse, 3 files in CF, 2 files in ASPX, but I still say the
> feature you describe is possible.
In ASP.NE
> Here's my .aspx page...
>
> <% Page Inherits="myPage" CodeBehind="myPage.aspx.cs" %>
>
> ...
>
> Here's my codebehind page...
>
> using System;
> using System.Web;
> using System.Web.UI;
> using System.Web.UI.WebControls;
> using System.Web.UI.HtmlControls;
>
> public class maintainGroup : Sys
Ok, I see what you mean...it really comes down to CF's lack of
event's then, not CF's lack of ability to separate UI from logic.
If you count Flash as CF's UI layer though...an argument could be made
that it does have events though.
CF > Flash > Event > Web Service > CF > Flash > UI change...whew :
> > However, again, this is certainly doable in CF. If ASPX
> uses a second
> > file .aspx.cs to contain such code, you could easily make
> > button.cfm check for the existence of such a file and then
> include it
> > so it could call custom event handlers for your specific button.
>
> Not su
y, July 17, 2003 12:52 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
>
>
> No, actually with your model (and Jon's) this is somewhat
> possible (it'd be somehat annoying to differentiate between
> two textboxes on the same page, for instance).
>
&
werful ally it is." - Yoda
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: jon hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 12:51 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
> >
> >
> > See Raymon
This isn't at runtime. This would work when a post back is done, however.
- Original Message -
From: jon hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 12:50 pm
Subject: Re: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
> See Raymond's response :)
>
>
>//hmm
to place the control there).
- Original Message -
From: Raymond Camden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 12:37 pm
Subject: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
> Or do you mean you can't change the properties based on actions, ie,
> make it so that on change, the bu
age-
> From: jon hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 12:51 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
>
>
> See Raymond's response :)
>
>
> //hmmm spotted problem...should name defaults differently
> &l
ll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ksc> Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 12:28 pm
ksc> Subject: Re: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
>> Ok...if you insist.
>>
>> input.cfm:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > maxlength="#m
: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
Anyways...Another thing I am interested in is :
Does Macromedia have a 'real world' database application example written
in CF MX that would showcase the features of the CFMX suite the way
Microsoft is using these examples to pus
: morpheus
"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 12:24 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
>
>
> No,
As with Raymond's suggestion, you can't change them at runtime.
- Original Message -
From: jon hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 12:28 pm
Subject: Re: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
> Ok...if you insist.
>
> input.cfm:
>
>
>
>
&g
IL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 12:24 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
>
>
> No, because you still can't change the properties of the
> button at runtime. All you've done is provided a way to
> separate the default s
spotted a bug...need name parameter. oops :)
name = id
--
jon
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thursday, July 17, 2003, 2:28:36 PM, you wrote:
jh> Ok...if you insist.
jh> input.cfm:
jh>
jh>
jh>
jh>
jh>
jh>
jh>
jh>
jh> callingpage.cfm:
jh>
jh>
jh>
jh>
jh>
jh> Untested...bu
wouldn't that be the CF version of the petStore App?
Ben
- Original Message -
From: "Angel Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 2:07 PM
Subject: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
> Anyways...Ano
No, because you still can't change the properties of the button at runtime. All
you've done is provided a way to separate the default state of the button, again at
"compile" time, as it were.
> You could easily write a button.cfm that says, if .cfm.cs
> exists, cfinclude it and handle any event
July 17, 2003 11:37 am
ksc> Subject: RE: RE: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
>> Um, how is this any different from
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Customer name
>>
>> ?
>>
>> ==
> Come on...you know as well as I do what the answers to these questions
> are. input.cfm defines default value, whether or not it is a
> string of
> 0 length or not is up to the logic in input.cfm and nowhere else. Same
> with the size, maxlength, and js events. I see nothing you mention
> tha
Yoda
> -Original Message-
> From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:54 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
>
>
> What you mean the objects on the page, you mean these things:
>
>
>
> What you mean the objects on the page, you mean these things:
>
>
Yes.
>
> If I use
>
>
>
> I can very easily edit textbox.cfm to change how the textbox acts.
Yes, but you have to edit the file, before you run the template. I'm changing the
properties of the textbox _at runtime_.
Let's
Anyways...Another thing I am interested in is :
Does Macromedia have a 'real world' database application example written
in CF MX that would showcase the features of the CFMX suite the way
Microsoft is using these examples to push .Net?
-Gel
~~~
Thursday, July 17, 2003, 1:31:31 PM, you wrote:
ksc> What if I don't want the default value?
ksc> How do I change the size of the texbox?
ksc> How do I change the maxlength of the textbox?
ksc> How do I attach JavaScript to the textbox?
Come on...you know as well as I do what the answers to the
When viewed In Opera 7.11:
An invalid browser has been detected
We were unable to complete your request. The version of your browser
does not appear to be compatable with this application. While the
Infragistics Net Advantage Suite support both up and down level browsers
this applications dem
Damn.
Checked a few of those pages.And they rock.
I love this functionality:
"ASP.Net Grid
Grid in flat mode
Dynamic Group By
Grid formatting features
Database bounding
Footer Totaling and Count
Multicolumn client-side sorting
Pagination
Embedded hyperlinks in cells
Column Moving and Reor
eus
"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:45 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
>
>
> You
:37 am
Subject: RE: RE: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
> Um, how is this any different from
>
>
>
>
>
> Customer name
>
> ?
>
>
> ===
> Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Min
Talk
> Subject: Re: RE: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
>
>
> Sure..
>
> Here's my .aspx page...
>
> <% Page Inherits="myPage" CodeBehind="myPage.aspx.cs" %>
>
>
>
> My Page
>
>
>
>
> Customer Name:
>
>
What if I don't want the default value?
How do I change the size of the texbox?
How do I change the maxlength of the textbox?
How do I attach JavaScript to the textbox?
> I see your point, asp.net almost forces developers to separate ui from
> logic. It's entirely possible to go 100% inline wit
}
protected void FooBar(object sender, System.EventArgs e)
{
// Let's change the text in the button.
btnSave.Text = "You clicked me!";
}
}
- Original Message -
From: Raymond Camden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 10:35
ksc> - Original Message -
ksc> From: jon hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ksc> Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 10:38 am
ksc> Subject: Re: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> See where I'm going with this? Tell me where the app logic is
&g
Threading
CF
No support, aside from the fact that simultaneous page requests happen
in separate threads.
ASP.NET
Fully supported. Not only do simultaneous page requests happen in
separate threads, but also each page can (if needed) spawn its own
threads to perform simultaneous or asynchronous w
I've got Visual Studio here. If Microsoft likes, I can write a godawful
ASP.NET page with queries, business logic and display parameters in the
same page in about 10 minutes if they like. Same with any other web
development methodology, including ColdFusion. Good design takes time.
- Jim
Mi
c. All the time. With no exceptions.
ksc> This still isn't possible in CF, or JSP, or ASP, or PHP, etc...
ksc> - Original Message -
ksc> From: Mike Brunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ksc> Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 10:07 am
ksc> Subject: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
>
And then...
There's your app logic right there...
- Original Message -
From: jon hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 10:38 am
Subject: Re: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
>
>
>
>
> See where I'm going with this? Tell me where the app
> I'm on my way out so can't read all, but paragraph 3 deserves
> some kind of response: -
>
> "ColdFusion follows the same development and page execution
> model as that of classic ASP, PHP, JSP, and other similar
> Web-scripting languages. Specifically, code is embedded in
> HTML markup, and
, or PHP, etc...
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Mike Brunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 10:07 am
> Subject: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
>
> > I'm on my way out so can't read all, but paragraph 3 deserves some
> > kind of
e: Thursday, July 17, 2003 10:07 am
Subject: RE: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
> I'm on my way out so can't read all, but paragraph 3 deserves some
> kind of
> response: -
>
> "ColdFusion follows the same development and page execution model
> as that of
> clas
Erm what were you expecting ?
It's a Microsoft Article promoting a Microsoft product of course its going
to bias towards its own product... Otherwise it's a bit like BlueDragon
saying "yea we got a cool product, but your better off with Macromedias CF"
?
Mikey
-Original Message-
From:
m Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 10:00 am
Subject: Re: MSDN on CF -> ASP.net
> Glancing over it, it's a little unfortunate (but not surprising,
> this
> *is* Microsoft) that they only mention CFML and CFScript for the
> development languages, but
Any "XXX" support in ASP.NET is via the .NET framework DB access, sessioning,
etc... Even System.Web.UI.Page is part of the .NET framework. That's because ASP.NET
is part of the .NET framework (whose classes consist of the System.Web namespace).
> It contains a few errors, especially 'fo
I'm on my way out so can't read all, but paragraph 3 deserves some kind of
response: -
"ColdFusion follows the same development and page execution model as that of
classic ASP, PHP, JSP, and other similar Web-scripting languages.
Specifically, code is embedded in HTML markup, and as a given page e
Glancing over it, it's a little unfortunate (but not surprising, this
*is* Microsoft) that they only mention CFML and CFScript for the
development languages, but roll out the "over 25 languages" bit for
support of ASP.NET. I can write Java to support CF applications, making
it most definitely
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