Re: Generated symbols

Creating sentinel values a bit like (Object.) but easier on the eye when debugging. On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Kazimir Majorinc wrote: > I'm need review of use of symbol and gensym functions in > Clojure. Beside typical alpha-conversion of variables in macros, what > are other typical or int

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 10:30 AM, James Keats wrote: > I'll re-quote it: "• Most Clojure programmers go through an arc. > First they think “eww, Java” and try to hide all the Java.  Then they > think “ooh, Java” and realize that Clojure is a powerful way to write > Java code.  Rich frowns upon “wra

Generated symbols

I'm need review of use of symbol and gensym functions in Clojure. Beside typical alpha-conversion of variables in macros, what are other typical or interesting uses of these in Clojure? Kazimir Majorinc http://kazimirmajorinc.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed t

Re: Clojure for large programs, was Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

"Many managers, understandably, go with a technology with heavy library support and lots of developers. The common critique that Lisp isn't practical in industry, comes from that position. But Clojure, sitting atop the JVM, doesn't have that problem. " The library part, ok, sure (but if I'm writin

Re: Sample Vaadin application in Clojure

Hi Jason, How do you run the application? When I do lein run, I get the following exception: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: vaadin.Servlet, compiling:(vaadin/jetty.clj:20) at clojure.lang.Compiler.analyzeSeq(Compiler.java:6357) at cloju

Re: Integrating Clojure-CLR w/ VS

Sean, It looks like your not alone, see this https://github.com/jmis/vsClojure/issues/33 I was able to launch an exe outside of VS by adding the following environment variable -> name: clojure.load.path value: %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Local\Microsoft\VisualStudio\10.0\Extensions\jmis\vsClojure\1

Re: Clojure for large programs

On Sat, 2 Jul 2011 18:26:21 -0700 Mark Engelberg wrote: > Ideally, I was hoping to start a more in-depth discussion about the > pros and cons of "programming in the large" in Clojure than just > waxing poetic about Clojure/Lisp's capabilities in the abstract :) > > Yes, much of the initial excit

Re: Clojure for large programs

On Jul 3, 2:26 am, Mark Engelberg wrote: > Ideally, I was hoping to start a more in-depth discussion about the > pros and cons of "programming in the large" in Clojure than just > waxing poetic about Clojure/Lisp's capabilities in the abstract :) > > Yes, much of the initial excitement around Cl

Re: Clojure for large programs

On 3 July 2011 11:26, Mark Engelberg wrote: > But Clojure's > lack of a "fail-fast" philosophy has burned me several times, with > hard-to-track-down bugs that were far-removed from the actual cause. > The larger my code grows, the more this annoys me, reminding me too > much of my days tracking

Re: Clojure for large programs

On Jul 2, 2011, at 8:26 PM, Mark Engelberg wrote: > My Clojure codebase is somewhere around 2-3kloc and I already feel > like I'm bumping up against some frustration when it comes time to > refactor, maintain, and extend the code, all while keeping up with > ongoing changes to libraries, contrib s

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

Ditto Aaron B. -Stuart Sierra clojure.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsub

Agents not updating in lein swank or lein repl

This must be something really stupid I'm doing... If I run a vanilla clojure repl via java -jar clojure-xxx.jar, then agents do what I'd except. Ditto using Leiningen's generated standalone swank-clojure server. If I do a "lein repl" or connect to a "lein swank" in a simple project, then agents d

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 10:39 AM, David Nolen wrote: > I think Clojure is great for programmers with all kinds of experience - from > beginner to advanced. In fact I think people haven't been brain washed by > too much experience in object oriented and imperative languages will have a > much easier

Re: Clojure for large programs

Ideally, I was hoping to start a more in-depth discussion about the pros and cons of "programming in the large" in Clojure than just waxing poetic about Clojure/Lisp's capabilities in the abstract :) Yes, much of the initial excitement around Clojure comes from the feeling of "Wow, I can do so muc

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 2:10 AM, László Török wrote: > I find clojure suitable to pretty much every problem I've come across so > far, since it allows me to write concise, low-ceremony code. The bottom-up > approach helps raising the abstraction level, and soon the concepts of your > domain will su

Re: Clojure for large programs, was Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

As for whether Clojure would work in a large corporate environment (or for large software), I think that's more a function of the internal politics of the organization. Many managers, understandably, go with a technology with heavy library support and lots of developers. The common critique that Li

Re: lein repl syntax highlighting?

Some time ago I wrote a highlighter in clojure: https://github.com/Licenser/clj-highlight I guess it would be possible to integrate something like that in a REPL :) On Jul 2, 2011, at 10:51 PM, Antonio Recio wrote: > Is there any way to highlight syntax in lein repl from a terminal? > > -- > Y

Re: Clojure for large programs, was Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

On Jul 2, 8:33 pm, Mark Engelberg wrote: > On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 12:21 PM, James Keats wrote: > > A very recent quote by Abelson is relevant: > > "One of the things I’m learning here (Google) is the experience of > > working on these enormous programs. I just never experienced that > > before.

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

James, On Saturday, July 2, 2011 9:59:12 PM UTC+2, James Keats wrote: > > > > On Jul 2, 6:41 pm, Stefan Kamphausen wrote: > I would draw a thick line between the community's response to someone > who'd ask an utterly dumb question - I don't me specifically, but any > newcomer - and someone who

lein repl syntax highlighting?

Is there any way to highlight syntax in lein repl from a terminal? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with yo

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

And we certainly will. And, as I stated in my previous email, we will do so with actions. My point is simply that I would rather not spend energy even talking about this, but rather demonstrating that we stand by our decisions by continuing on in the fashion Rich started, and many after have

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 4:19 PM, James Keats wrote: > Sure, "good lisp programmers", I have no argument against that, the > key operative word here being *good*; where do you find those in large > enough numbers to fill industry positions? I would also like to be > specific about what "good" would

Re: Discovering a function's closure

To get the source form of the function "map?": (read-string (with-out-str (source map?))) This may not work only when the function has been AOT'ed already. Hope this helps. Regards, Shantanu On Jul 2, 11:34 am, Oded Badt wrote: > Hey, > > Does anyone know of a way, given a function, to discove

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

On Jul 2, 8:33 pm, David Nolen wrote: > On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 3:21 PM, James Keats wrote: > > And once you encounter the > > reality and frustration infamously characterized by likening the > > managing of lispers to the herding of cats then you begin to admire > > languages like python and ja

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

As mundane as municipal billing sounds, there are actually some instances using 3rd party Windows based address verification (SmartSoft USA's Accumail) while bills are being loaded (before generating the print files) where a good multi-threaded language would help. Python does well as single thread

Re: Any ways to prevent protocol functions from being hardcoded in?

Hi On Jul 1, 8:09 am, Meikel Brandmeyer wrote: > That's not what I understood. I know about the trade-offs between extend and > inline methods. I blogged some time ago about it and voted for extend being > the default until speed matters. However Stuart wrote "protocols are a > low-level implemen

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

On Jul 2, 6:41 pm, Stefan Kamphausen wrote: > FWIW, > > However, as Aaron pointed out, I'd rather a more tolerant, pleasant > community. > > Kind regards, A month ago I asked a question here that barely a minute after clicking "send" realized was utterly dumb. It reminds of an anecdote about an

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 3:21 PM, James Keats wrote: > And once you encounter the > reality and frustration infamously characterized by likening the > managing of lispers to the herding of cats then you begin to admire > languages like python and java and see what they got right in imposing > restr

Clojure for large programs, was Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 12:21 PM, James Keats wrote: > A very recent quote by Abelson is relevant: > "One of the things I’m learning here (Google) is the experience of > working on these enormous programs. I just never experienced that > before. Previously a large program to me was a hundred pages

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

On Jul 2, 6:39 pm, David Nolen wrote: > On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 12:23 PM, James Keats wrote: > > > I therefore see it most suited, as I said, for the advanced > > independent programmer, or at most a small team of advanced enough > > programmers. > > I think Clojure is great for programmers with

Re: Sample Vaadin application in Clojure

The clj-vaadin project is wonderful, it is very useful for me. It has an example of making a tree with vaadin with 2 levels. Do you know how I can add a third and fourth level? (defn level2 [tree n1 n2] (reduce (fn [tree n2] (doto tree

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

FWIW, I've been enjoying the Yegge posts for years. I definitely like his kind of humor and there are posts which made me laughing til the tears were running (*Settling the OS X focus-follows-mouse* debate comes to mind). Some posts deliver some insight, which at times may be well hidden. H

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 12:23 PM, James Keats wrote: > I therefore see it most suited, as I said, for the advanced > independent programmer, or at most a small team of advanced enough > programmers. I think Clojure is great for programmers with all kinds of experience - from beginner to advanced.

Re: Sample Vaadin application in Clojure

you can try the following link https://github.com/hsenid-mobile/clj-vaadin it is a Clojure wrapper written for Vaadin. It's still in its initial stage :) You can check the implantation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to thi

Re: Sample Vaadin application in Clojure

> Is there any hope of getting rid of the servlet altogether, and > somehow get a Ring handler to perform whatever Vaadin stuff that needs > to be done on the server? Well, you could rewrite the servlet in Clojure... right? Aside from that, I don't think so. Ring works on a much lower level of abs

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

On Jul 2, 3:54 pm, David Nolen wrote: > On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 4:05 AM, faenvie wrote: > > I agree, that clojure will not gain java-like popularity in > > a forseeable future. > > > IMO clojure is much more a Language for SystemProgrammers > > (high demands, thinking in concurrency) than a Lang

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

On Jul 2, 4:16 pm, Aaron Bedra wrote: > Although I agree with the ideas here that have already been stated by > Rich, I am concerned about this message.  There is no reason to stand > against somebody.  Steve is welcome to his own opinions and is an > incredibly smart guy.  He should be respecte

Re: ordered map in Clojure?

Alan Malloy writes: Hi Alan, > If I were using this for some performance-critical task and never > disjoined, I'd use ninjudd's version. Otherwise I'd use mine, just > because it's easier to build and tweak since it's in clojure. I tried your implementation, and I couldn't see any relevant slow

Sample Vaadin application in Clojure

The blog http://dev.vaadin.com/wiki/Articles/ClojureScripting describes how to write a simple Vaadin app in Clojure, using lein-war, a web.xml with lots of init params, and a custom servlet written in Java. I realized that it must be possible to get rid of the Java servlet class that the blogger su

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

2011/7/2 Aaron Bedra > Although I agree with the ideas here that have already been stated by Rich, > I am concerned about this message. There is no reason to stand against > somebody. Steve is welcome to his own opinions and is an incredibly smart > guy. He should be respected as a peer. His

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

Although I agree with the ideas here that have already been stated by Rich, I am concerned about this message. There is no reason to stand against somebody. Steve is welcome to his own opinions and is an incredibly smart guy. He should be respected as a peer. His opinions happen to be diffe

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

On Jul 1, 10:50 pm, Gregg Reynolds wrote: > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 2:59 PM, James Keats wrote: > > > ... > > > Whereas when Steve Yegge writes: > > Who? Indeed. I'm not wishing this to be a personal attack on Steve Yegge, but a fair and justified re-examination; if people are going to use thei

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 4:05 AM, faenvie wrote: > I agree, that clojure will not gain java-like popularity in > a forseeable future. > > IMO clojure is much more a Language for SystemProgrammers > (high demands, thinking in concurrency) than a Language for > ApplicationProgrammers (midsize demands

Discovering a function's closure

Hey, Does anyone know of a way, given a function, to discover it's closure programatically? I often find myself holding a pointer to such a function that only when knowing to what values it is bound to one can tell what it actually does. So it can be very helpful to be able to query the runtime (

Re: about lazy-seq

... oops, of course the count realizes the seq, what a silly mistake thank you for your help On 2 juil, 06:45, Alan Malloy wrote: > (count coll) needs to realize the whole sequence all at once in order > to see how big it is. Depending on how much of this you want to do "by > hand", something l

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

I find clojure suitable to pretty much every problem I've come across so far, since it allows me to write concise, low-ceremony code. The bottom-up approach helps raising the abstraction level, and soon the concepts of your domain will surface, so that the code starts reflecting the language you us

Re: Please stand firm against Steve Yegge's "yes language" push

I agree, that clojure will not gain java-like popularity in a forseeable future. IMO clojure is much more a Language for SystemProgrammers (high demands, thinking in concurrency) than a Language for ApplicationProgrammers (midsize demands, thinking singlethread) it does not have to target general

Re: Russ olsen's Clojure Book

I am only really very new to clojure, I actually started with racket and htdp.org(how to design programs). The really unique thing I see with clojure is that super (clean to me) design and rather than shunning java and oop Rich openly advises to embrace it. That's the clincher for me rather than e