Re: Two suggestions re: core.spec, `ns`, and clojure 1.9alpha11

Hi Brian, Not crazy at all! Spec errors are maps at the bottom, and IMO these maps should flow anywhere we are making exceptions. This is already true for the exceptions coming from spec.test, and we should make it true for the macroexpand exceptions as well. (I actually prefer reading the map

Re: Two suggestions re: core.spec, `ns`, and clojure 1.9alpha11

Brian, The tone of your previous post is not constructive. Let's keep the discussion about ideas, not people. Thanks, Stu On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 8:46 PM, Brian Marick wrote: > > On Aug 24, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Stuart Halloway > wrote: > > 3.

Re: Two suggestions re: core.spec, `ns`, and clojure 1.9alpha11

I do not think your tone and lack of constructive feedback to Alex's (and others) thoughtful responses is helping your case. On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 8:46:47 PM UTC-4, Brian Marick wrote: > > > On Aug 24, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Stuart Halloway > wrote: > > 3. "Follow

Re: Two suggestions re: core.spec, `ns`, and clojure 1.9alpha11

> On Aug 24, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Brian Marick wrote: > So why not do it in the bottom layer? Is there some deep reason why only an > unserious programmer would want information in anything other than the > current clojure.spec order? (We’re talking here about reordering

Re: Two suggestions re: core.spec, `ns`, and clojure 1.9alpha11

> On Aug 24, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Stuart Halloway > wrote: > > 3. "Follow the inverted pyramid so people see what is most important." This > kind of thing is easily done in a layer above spec, e.g. a custom REPL > printer for spec macro errors. Worth working on but

Re: Two suggestions re: core.spec, `ns`, and clojure 1.9alpha11

This is almost exactly the intuition behind the standard error reporting heuristic for grammars involving alternations. It is a heuristic, but it has to be since on a failure it's impossible to entirely accurately determine the user's intention. But intuitively, generally the rule that has managed

[ANN] Leiningen 2.7.0

Greetings, fellow Clojurians! I am happy to announce Leiningen 2.7.0! This release contains mostly bugfixes, but two major new improvements were added. There is now a PowerShell version of `lein.bat`, and `:managed-dependencies` has been added to Leiningen. Both improvements should be considered

Re: Parsing namespaced XML with clojure.data.xml

Namespaced XML is inherently value-comparable and unambiguous. It would be shame to give up on that, and disperse the burden throughout every layer of library and consumer. Pretty-printing need not be a concern of the XML parsing library. Everyone seems to be interested nowadays in easing

Re: Two suggestions re: core.spec, `ns`, and clojure 1.9alpha11

Hi Alex, I could track down why explain stops early. http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-2013 On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 11:33:43 PM UTC+2, Leon Grapenthin wrote: > > > On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 3:27:28 AM UTC+2, Alex Miller wrote: >> >> predicate: (cat :args (*

Re: Two suggestions re: core.spec, `ns`, and clojure 1.9alpha11

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 3:27:28 AM UTC+2, Alex Miller wrote: > > predicate: (cat :args (* :clojure.core.specs/binding-form) :varargs (? > (cat :amp #{(quote &)} :form :clojure.core.specs/binding-form))), > > the predicate that is actually failing in the spec, probably not >

Re: Two suggestions re: core.spec, `ns`, and clojure 1.9alpha11

Hi Beau, Yes. Nevermind and everyone should learn to read spec. :-) That said, such customizations allow people to experiment and flesh out a bunch different ideas in parallel. Best, Stu On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Beau Fabry wrote: > Just specifically on a custom

Re: Two suggestions re: core.spec, `ns`, and clojure 1.9alpha11

Just specifically on a custom REPL printer, wouldn't that negate the benefits Alex sees in people becoming accustomed to reading spec error messages? If every error report from each different environment potentially looks different? Also, from the position of a community maintainer Brian is

Re: Two suggestions re: core.spec, `ns`, and clojure 1.9alpha11

A suggestion for making all errors better would be to give not only the precise file and line _of the beginning of the top level form containing the problem_, but a more precise line and column of _the part of the form that spec is complaining about_. Multi-line forms are the biggest and hardest

Re: Two suggestions re: core.spec, `ns`, and clojure 1.9alpha11

Brian originally raised 5 points that were concrete & specific, and therefore potentially actionable. That is usefully-shaped feedback, thanks Brian! My take on those points, which I will recast in my own words: 1. "Loosen rules about ns form to match what people have actually done." This is

Re: Job Opportunity | Application Developer (General)-Expert| St Louis, MO 6 months

Hi Revanth, You might want to join and post on the St. Louis Clojure meetup discussion group too to reach a more targeted audience. http://www.meetup.com/stl-clojure/ Alex On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 8:21:00 AM UTC-5, Revanth Kumar wrote: > > *Application Developer* > > > > Location:

Job Opportunity | Application Developer (General)-Expert| St Louis, MO 6 months

*Application Developer* Location: St Louis, MO Duration: 6 months *Description:* Provides application software development services or technical support typically in a defined project. Develops program logic for new applications or analyzes and modifies logic in existing

ANN: konserve 0.4.0 - A clojuresque key-value/document store protocol with core.async.

Hi, I am pleased to announce the 0.4.0 release of konserve. The major change is key iteration for the file-store and a fast append-log + reducing function for all stores. >From the README: A simple document store protocol defined with core.async semantics to allow Clojuresque collection

Re: Two suggestions re: core.spec, `ns`, and clojure 1.9alpha11

Sure, at the end of the day I don't really care about thre require/:require issue, it just seems a little incongruent with previous decisions which have promoted backwards compatibility. I generally prefer increased strictness, so I'm fine with the change. I do care about the error messages,

Re: Two suggestions re: core.spec, `ns`, and clojure 1.9alpha11

I agree Colin, this feels more like the beatings shall continue until morale improves ;-) More seriously, I understand the point of the musical instruments analogy to be a reminder to programmers that learning a language and understanding it in depth will increase your power and expressivity

0-arity of transducer in transduce

Hi, I'm trying to use the transducer framework for some sequence processing where I have a core reduction function, but depending on options, extra functionality can be added to the reduction function. I thought that's a good fit for hand-written transducers. However, I'm running into a