On Aug 14, 2013, at 7:51, Graham Cox graham@bigpond.com wrote:
On 14/08/2013, at 1:38 AM, Steve Mills smi...@makemusic.com wrote:
unning an open panel modally is a user-hostile experience that prevents
the user from interacting with other documents. OS X applications should
not behave this
On Aug 14, 2013, at 2:14 AM, Uli Kusterer witness.of.teacht...@gmx.net wrote:
Also keep in mind that in current MacOS X releases, open and save panels are
out-of-process windows managed by PowerBox (think sandbox), and NSOpenPanel
and NSSavePanel are only proxy objects in your process.
On Aug 14, 2013, at 04:14:58, Uli Kusterer witness.of.teacht...@gmx.net wrote:
I vaguely remember having the same issue where an open panel stayed open too
long. I think it might be related to autorelease pools holding on to the
actual window-owning object (some private thing, I think). You
On Aug 15, 2013, at 06:41:49, Kyle Sluder k...@ksluder.com wrote:
This is only true for sandboxed apps, but it is a very good point. If Steve's
app is sandboxed, it needs to forward the- orderOut: message to Powerbox over
XPC. That would require running the runloop.
It is not sandboxed.
--
Graham Cox (14/8/13, 06:51) said:
They did, which is why first modeless dialogs (from System 1? 2?) and
then sheets (OSX 1.0) were developed. Even as far back as the original
Inside Macintosh the use of modal dialogs was strongly discouraged when
it was possible to use something else. The
running on 10.5.8.
Pages '08
Safari 5.0.6
M
On Aug 14, 2013, at 3:05 AM, Jeremy Hughes wrote:
Graham Cox (14/8/13, 06:51) said:
They did, which is why first modeless dialogs (from System 1? 2?) and
then sheets (OSX 1.0) were developed. Even as far back as the
original
Inside
On 14/08/2013, at 12:05 PM, Jeremy Hughes jer...@softpress.com wrote:
I must be missing something here.
Which Apple applications have non-modal Open dialogs?
All the ones that I tried (TextEdit, Preview.app, Safari, Xcode 3.2.6) have
modal Open dialogs - you can't do anything in other
On Aug 13, 2013, at 18:56:20, Kyle Sluder k...@ksluder.com wrote:
And for a long time you used to have to keep the mouse button held down
while navigating a menu hierarchy. Times change.
Let's focus on the question, shall we?
The fact that -orderOut: didn't dismiss the open panel points at a
On Aug 14, 2013, at 5:49 AM, Graham Cox graham@bigpond.com wrote:
Well, just quickly looking at TextEdit Preview for example, the Open dialog
is quite definitely non-modal (10.8).
Not for me, also on 10.8. They are application-modal...
--
Scott Ribe
scott_r...@elevated-dev.com
On 14 Aug, 2013, at 10:03 PM, Steve Mills smi...@makemusic.com wrote:
There most certainly is not a deeper issue with my code. Run this and you'll
see for yourself:
-(IBAction) openDocument:(id)sender
{
NSOpenPanel*p = [NSOpenPanel openPanel];
On 14/08/2013, at 4:14 PM, Scott Ribe scott_r...@elevated-dev.com wrote:
Not for me, also on 10.8. They are application-modal...
Strange - maybe it's due to iCloud support being enabled? I get a
different-looking dialog that has iCloud/On My Mac buttons and it's certainly
non-modal. But
On Aug 14, 2013, at 09:23:11, Roland King r...@rols.org wrote:
What does that code end up doing? Not order the window out, not order it out
until after the 5 seconds have elapsed or what? Not much of an OSX guy but
something similar on iOS, with a 5 second piece of work on the main thread,
On Aug 14, 2013, at 8:23 AM, Graham Cox graham@bigpond.com wrote:
Strange - maybe it's due to iCloud support being enabled? I get a
different-looking dialog that has iCloud/On My Mac buttons and it's certainly
non-modal. But this is getting well off-topic.
AHA! I do not have iCloud
On Aug 14, 2013, at 09:21:25, Graham Cox appt...@me.com wrote:
Doesn't the main event loop need to run for the window to visibly close? At
least the modal session has to finish. If the completion code is run
synchronously, it will inevitably delay this until the main loop runs.
That must be
On Aug 14, 2013, at 10:33 AM, Steve Mills wrote:
On Aug 14, 2013, at 09:23:11, Roland King r...@rols.org wrote:
What does that code end up doing? Not order the window out, not order it out
until after the 5 seconds have elapsed or what? Not much of an OSX guy but
something similar on
On Aug 14, 2013, at 21:54:00, Alex Zavatone z...@mac.com wrote:
Wild guess, but by any chance are you blocking the thread or blocking the
thread that the UI is drawn on?
Yes. Refer back to the small sample I sent to illustrate that orderOut doesn't
hide the window right away.
The header
On 14/08/2013, at 5:10 PM, Steve Mills smi...@makemusic.com wrote:
The header comment for runModal says It returns only after the user has
closed the panel. The key word here is closed, which makes it seem like
the window should indeed close, not be marked for closure at some later time.
On Aug 14, 2013, at 10:52:55, Graham Cox graham@bigpond.com
wrote:
The only other thing you might try is running the run loop a few cycles in
your completion handler so that the orderOut: is processed. It might have
unexpected side-effects though, which might also reveal a very good
On 14/08/2013, at 5:52 PM, Graham Cox graham@bigpond.com wrote:
The only other thing you might try is running the run loop a few cycles in
your completion handler so that the orderOut: is processed. It might have
unexpected side-effects though, which might also reveal a very good
Steve,
Using Graham's NSRunLoop solution, it looks like you don't even need to send
-orderOut to the panel.
--
Bryan Vines
On Aug 14, 2013, at 11:02 AM, Steve Mills smi...@makemusic.com wrote:
On Aug 14, 2013, at 10:52:55, Graham Cox graham@bigpond.com
wrote:
[[NSRunLoop mainRunLoop]
On Aug 14, 2013, at 11:53:41, Bryan Vines bkvi...@me.com
wrote:
Using Graham's NSRunLoop solution, it looks like you don't even need to send
-orderOut to the panel.
Hmm, most of the time yes. If I go through the dlog quickly, it remains
onscreen until the file has been opened. Like if I
On Aug 14, 2013, at 08:52 , Graham Cox graham@bigpond.com wrote:
Well, there's logically 'closed' and there's having the pixels on the screen
removed or updated. The run loop has to run for that to happen in the normal
course of things.
Actually, it's going to be the Window Server that
...@ksluder.com
Cc: Cocoa dev cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 7:03:59 AM
Subject: Re: Dismissing Open dlog before doc actually opens
On Aug 13, 2013, at 18:56:20, Kyle Sluder k...@ksluder.com wrote:
And for a long time you used to have to keep the mouse button held down
On Aug 14, 2013, at 13:40:00, Lee Ann Rucker lruc...@vmware.com
wrote:
[p orderOut:self];
// Let the run loop finish so the UI updates - button finishes tracking,
window updates, etc
[self performSelector:@selector(documentOpeningStuff:) withObject:p
afterDelay:0];
As I've
On Aug 14, 2013, at 13:11:31, Quincey Morris
quinceymor...@rivergatesoftware.com wrote:
Actually, it's going to be the Window Server that removes the window from the
screen. However, it may be that ordering-out an app window triggers a run
loop source or event, which in turn notifies the
With that in mind, any reason why you wouldn't wrap that in a block and
dispatch to GCD?
Mind you, I only have marginal experience with blocks on iOS, so this is also a
question as a suggestion.
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 14, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Steve Mills smi...@makemusic.com wrote:
On Aug
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:03:59 -0500, Steve Mills said:
There most certainly is not a deeper issue with my code. Run this and
you'll see for yourself:
-(IBAction) openDocument:(id)sender
{
NSOpenPanel*p = [NSOpenPanel openPanel];
if([p runModal] ==
Can't you make the opening a two stage process and use a notification when the
window hasbeenclosed to issue the real opening?
I wonder if there is a delegate to the open dialog that has events for that.
Issuing delays to start a thread blocking operation at this point seems to beg
for
On Aug 14, 2013, at 13:58:42, Sean McBride s...@rogue-research.com wrote:
Are you able to try that on 10.6? I had some similar problems starting with
10.7 because of the document architecture re-architecting. A lot of the
openDocument chain is now done (internally) with libdispatch which
On Aug 14, 2013, at 14:01:59, Alex Zavatone z...@mac.com wrote:
Can't you make the opening a two stage process and use a notification when
the window hasbeenclosed to issue the real opening?
Not the way it's currently written. Hopefully we'll be able to rewrite this
portion another time.
On Aug 14, 2013, at 11:44 , Steve Mills smi...@makemusic.com wrote:
I only used sleep in that example to illustrate that orderOut was not hiding
the window, and that there were not deeper issues in our code base.
What I was trying to say is that using 'sleep' -- as it turns out -- can't
On Aug 14, 2013, at 14:20:42, Quincey Morris
quinceymor...@rivergatesoftware.com wrote:
Keep in mind that even if you get things running smoothly on your Mac, you
have no guarantee that all your customers will see the same good behavior.
Right. That's why we have a great QA department. :)
On 14/08/13 16:00 , cocoa-dev-requ...@lists.apple.com wrote:
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:58:42 -0400
Message-ID: 20130814185842.823741...@mail.rogue-research.com
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:03:59 -0500, Steve Mills said:
There most certainly is not a deeper issue with my code. Run this and
you'll see
OK, but now we're getting into the dodgy bits:
// Give windows a chance to display/disappear because we're tracking
events in a loop.
[[NSRunLoop currentRunLoop] runUntilDate:[NSDate
dateWithTimeIntervalSinceNow:0.1]];
On Aug 14, 2013, at 11:42 AM, Steve Mills wrote:
On Aug 14,
On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 23:27:59 +, Mills, Steve said:
I haven't been able to find any info about this, but I might be
searching for the wrong thing. How can we get rid of the Open dlog so it
doesn't hang around while the document is being read? It's an incredibly
annoying design.
Dismiss the
On Aug 12, 2013, at 21:22:07, Bryan Vines bkvi...@me.com wrote:
Can you run an NSOpenPanel with a completion handler block, and in that
block, call a method on a background thread to actually perform the file read
operation?
Well, this won't work. The current code runs the dlog with
Steve,
Could you use a boolean property such as fileIsBeingRead? Set that to YES when
you start the file read on the background thread, then set it back to NO when
the file read has completed.
I used this technique in a proof-of-concept app. The app has a status label in
its window; the
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013, at 11:02 AM, Steve Mills wrote:
We expect the Open dlog to be modal, not modeless. Any other ideas? I
also tried calling orderOut after runModal returned, but it didn't make
it go away.
Running an open panel modally is a user-hostile experience that prevents
the user
On Aug 13, 2013, at 16:33:25, Kyle Sluder k...@ksluder.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013, at 11:02 AM, Steve Mills wrote:
We expect the Open dlog to be modal, not modeless. Any other ideas? I
also tried calling orderOut after runModal returned, but it didn't make
it go away.
Running an
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013, at 04:38 PM, Steve Mills wrote:
On Aug 13, 2013, at 16:33:25, Kyle Sluder k...@ksluder.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013, at 11:02 AM, Steve Mills wrote:
We expect the Open dlog to be modal, not modeless. Any other ideas? I
also tried calling orderOut after runModal
On 14/08/2013, at 1:38 AM, Steve Mills smi...@makemusic.com wrote:
unning an open panel modally is a user-hostile experience that prevents
the user from interacting with other documents. OS X applications should
not behave this way.
Apple didn't feel that way in the past, so I don't
I haven't been able to find any info about this, but I might be searching for
the wrong thing. How can we get rid of the Open dlog so it doesn't hang around
while the document is being read? It's an incredibly annoying design.
Steve via iPad
___
Steve,
Can you run an NSOpenPanel with a completion handler block, and in that block,
call a method on a background thread to actually perform the file read
operation?
As a test, I put this together. I called the selectAFile method and chose a 4GB
text file. The open panel was dismissed after
On Aug 12, 2013, at 4:27 PM, Mills, Steve smi...@makemusic.com wrote:
I haven't been able to find any info about this, but I might be searching for
the wrong thing. How can we get rid of the Open dlog so it doesn't hang
around while the document is being read? It's an incredibly annoying
On Aug 12, 2013, at 21:42:10, Kyle Sluder k...@ksluder.com
wrote:
Are you using NSDocument? If so, return YES from
+canConcurrentlyReadDocumentsOfType: to let NSDocumentController know it can
initialize your document in the background. Then it will call
-makeWindowControllers on the main
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