RE: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-31 Thread Robert Koberg
Hi, I just saw this link at webstandards.org: http://www.meryl.net/css/ All-CSS Site Repository CSS boring? CSS too restrictive? No way. Look, here's a collection of nearly 800 table-free CSS designs, courtesy of Meryl who is thankfully mirroring the original archive from webnouveau.net, which

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-29 Thread Stuart Roebuck
On Monday, October 28, 2002, at 08:43 pm, Tony Collen wrote: Steven Noels wrote: Miles Elam wrote: But then again, this is all sophostry and rhetoric without something to look at or back it up with. So, getting to my point, I got bored today and made a mockup of

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-28 Thread Steven Noels
Miles Elam wrote: But then again, this is all sophostry and rhetoric without something to look at or back it up with. So, getting to my point, I got bored today and made a mockup of http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/ in XHTML 1.0 Strict. http://cocoon.iguanacharlie.com/ I hope this illustrates

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-28 Thread Tony Collen
Steven Noels wrote: Miles Elam wrote: But then again, this is all sophostry and rhetoric without something to look at or back it up with. So, getting to my point, I got bored today and made a mockup of http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/ in XHTML 1.0 Strict. http://cocoon.iguanacharlie.com/ I

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-28 Thread David Crossley
Tony Collen wrote: Steven Noels wrote: snip/ We could use some helping hands over at Forrest to finish our skins. Where do I sign up? :) http://xml.apache.org/forrest/ and send subscribe email to: forrest-dev-subscribeatxml.apache.org --David

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-23 Thread Miles Elam
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Robert Koberg wrote: even if it is about .1% of the general Internet users? There might be an argument if stats could be provided for the user base, but that does not seem to be acceptable. What if you have 0 hits with Nav4? Do you still need to support it? Oh, god,

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-19 Thread Stefano Mazzocchi
Robert Koberg wrote: even if it is about .1% of the general Internet users? There might be an argument if stats could be provided for the user base, but that does not seem to be acceptable. What if you have 0 hits with Nav4? Do you still need to support it? Oh, god, we already had this

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-19 Thread Geoff Howard
Excuse my ignorance here, but isn't xml.apache.org still being served statically? Geoff Howard --- Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Koberg wrote: Oh, god, we already had this conversation on forrest-dev a while ago and the figures say that xml.apache.org is hit by 10% of

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-19 Thread Diana Shannon
On Saturday, October 19, 2002, at 09:17 AM, Geoff Howard wrote: Excuse my ignorance here, but isn't xml.apache.org still being served statically? You are correct. For the record, I updated the site earlier today. Diana -

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-19 Thread Stefano Mazzocchi
Geoff Howard wrote: Excuse my ignorance here, but isn't xml.apache.org still being served statically? Pretty please: don't ask! There are tons of reasons. The smartest being: to ease mirroring. Even if nobody is mirroring xml.apache.org (that I know of, at least). The real reasons are a mix

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-19 Thread Stefano Mazzocchi
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: It won't be hard to have different stylesheets depending on the browser selection. So, let's use the power of cocoon instead of forcing CSS down everyone's neck. Ah, ok, now I get it. Yes: xml.apache.org is static and will remain so for a while. In my mind I was

RE: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-18 Thread Conal Tuohy
But Nicola's point is valid: if browsers are going to CRASH (even a few browsers) then that's one BIG reason against it :-( Robert Koberg: even if it is about .1% of the general Internet users? There might be an argument if stats could be provided for the user base, but that does not

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-18 Thread Tony Collen
Conal Tuohy wrote: I think we all hate table-based layouts and would prefer to use CSS. It would be much easier to design and specify the look and feel using CSS. It's more concise ... there are a thousand reasons. But Nicola's point is valid: if browsers are going to CRASH (even a few

RE: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-18 Thread Conal Tuohy
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout Tony Collen wrote: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Koen Pellegrims wrote: YES! Please! The current layout is not flexible at all and I for one would welcome a simple, CSS-based design. I would

RE: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-18 Thread Hunsberger, Peter
I suggest we would need: 1) a CSSGenerator to convert the CSS to XML as SAX (a wrapper around the batik SAC parser). 2) a CSSCascadeTransformer to cascade the styles and apply them to the document being styled. This would copy the appropriate style attributes to each element of the

RE: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-18 Thread Robert Koberg
Hi, -Original Message- From: Conal Tuohy [mailto:conalt;paradise.net.nz] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 2:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout I think we all hate table-based layouts and would prefer to use CSS. It would be much

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-18 Thread Miles Elam
Crashers are always bad. Yes, it's Netscape 4's fault, but the page author can still take some responsibility. On the bright side, there are ways of hiding CSS declarations from Netscape 4 and its ilk. If you specifiy a main stylesheet with a minimum set (if any) of CSS declarations and also

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-17 Thread Nicola Ken Barozzi
Tony Collen wrote: On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Koen Pellegrims wrote: YES! Please! The current layout is not flexible at all and I for one would welcome a simple, CSS-based design. I would do it myself if it wasn't for the time, or the lack thereof... ;-) Soon we'll

RE: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-16 Thread Koen Pellegrims
Title: RE: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout YES! Please! The current layout is not flexible at all and I for one would welcome a simple, CSS-based design. I would do it myself if it wasn't for the time, or the lack thereof... ;-) Koen -Original Message- From: Tony

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-16 Thread Nicola Ken Barozzi
Koen Pellegrims wrote: YES! Please! The current layout is not flexible at all and I for one would welcome a simple, CSS-based design. I would do it myself if it wasn't for the time, or the lack thereof... ;-) Soon we'll use http://xml.apache.org/forrest/ It's not only CSS because some

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-16 Thread Tony Collen
On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Koen Pellegrims wrote: YES! Please! The current layout is not flexible at all and I for one would welcome a simple, CSS-based design. I would do it myself if it wasn't for the time, or the lack thereof... ;-) Soon we'll use

[RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-15 Thread Tony Collen
*Huge* RT: Has anyone thought of getting rid of the table-based layout in favor of something that uses all CSS and super basic XHTML? Would this be welcome at all? I'd hate to see the nice panel navbar go away, but it's possible to do that with CSS, too. Maybe get rid of all the offending

Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout

2002-10-15 Thread Steven Noels
Tony Collen wrote: *Huge* RT: Has anyone thought of getting rid of the table-based layout in favor of something that uses all CSS and super basic XHTML? Would this be welcome at all? I'd hate to see the nice panel navbar go away, but it's possible to do that with CSS, too. Maybe get