Thats a great page Ken. I think this is one of the most
valuable resources on the Apache site I have read. The
definition of some of these phrases is not obvious so it
helps to have them written down. I think it would be
good to have this link publicised when someone joins a mailing
list so the
The general impression that that is too much info for a generic approach.
Unless your goal is to redefine the project pages ;)
I was more thinking in line of a "quick" view page, with all the projects
with the most basic info (description, lists, cvs repo, latest version,
project page link)
So peop
--On Monday, November 04, 2002 14:18:30 -0500 Rich Bowen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Having not been to a hackathon before, I'm not sure how this all works,
but I wanted to mention some of the things that I was hoping to work on
there, so that people can be thinking about it. Likewise, it would be
So do it. I put the link up for POI on this page:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html but I was afraid of
retribution if I put it up for others.
-Andy
Costin Manolache wrote:
On a related issue - I think it would be very nice to include a link to
gmane news gateway. There are quite a fe
So just use gmane.org or pier's new nifty news.betaversion.org onces its
off his DSL (somehow I don't think he wants everyone using it just yet
;-) ...but Pier is weird so maybe he does ;-) )
Henri Yandell wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
Chuck Murcko wrote:
I've
since i answer the asf email, this is something that has bugged
the crap out of me, and about which i have complained several
times to no avail.
there is no canonical /mailing-lists.html location to which
i can point people for j random project, so i have to tell them
to search the project site fo
Is this just driven by the number of config questions and "suscribe"
(and other) trolls to the dev lists? Or the rising percentage of
doofuses in the net world? I knew we should never have let AOL hook up
that gateway to the net. 8^)
yes. yes. agreed.
Martin van den Bemt wrote:
We can always write a maven plugin to get the unified form spit out, for
mavenized projects (don't know forrest, so cannot talk about that..)..
Yes, this is sort of what I was thinking, we can easily do the same.
Personally I prefer to have two files: one describes the pr
* On 2002-11-04 at 16:02,
Vadim Gritsenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> excited the electrons to say:
>
> Here are some suggestions of terms to add:
>
> - CVS (my boss confused this one with drug store once) - it's quite
>related to apache on my taste,
> - hybernated project (as on navbar of xml.a
On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
> > Bear in mind that is -this- is the number one aim - we can do
> > that without a PMC
> no, we can't. please see roy's several messages on this subject.
Perhals not with our current bylaws. But that can be changed.
It is a matter of how on
We can always write a maven plugin to get the unified form spit out, for
mavenized projects (don't know forrest, so cannot talk about that..)..
Mvgr,
Martin
>
> Actually, Gump has its own from the Alexandria one, and basically all
> Java projects already have theirs.
> Forrest extended it and add
Daniel Rall wrote:
Ben Laurie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
Chuck Murcko wrote:
I've noticed in looking around the Apache sites that there's a lot of
inconsistency in providing links (usually in the sidebars) where people
can get on the mailing lists.
since i answer th
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
there have been several mentions over the last three weeks
concerning the need for an apache glossary. i've started
roughing this out; if you're interested, please take a look
at
http://incubator.apache.org/drafts/glossary.html
and let us know what terms/definitions s
Ben Laurie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
> > Chuck Murcko wrote:
> >
>
> >>I've noticed in looking around the Apache sites that there's a lot of
> >>inconsistency in providing links (usually in the sidebars) where people
> >>can get on the mailing lists.
> > since i
Pier already has one running (last week or so). The discussion about that is
on infrastructure though.
Mvgr,
Martin
> -Original Message-
> From: Costin Manolache [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 21:38
> To: community@apache.org
> Subject: Re: Subtle barriers to
On a related issue - I think it would be very nice to include a link to
gmane news gateway. There are quite a few people using it ( I'm no
longer directly subscribed to any list ), and I think it should be at
least mentioned.
I don't know if a news server taking the feed for US distribution or ou
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
Chuck Murcko wrote:
I've noticed in looking around the Apache sites that there's a lot of
inconsistency in providing links (usually in the sidebars) where people
can get on the mailing lists.
since i answer the asf email, this is something that has bugged
the crap out
On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 03:14:24PM -0500, Henri Yandell wrote:
> The mail archives also seem to be a joke. They lack a common look and
> feel, sometimes they don't cover certain mail lists and other times they
> just feel like poor quality user interfaces.
There has been some action lately to try
On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
> Chuck Murcko wrote:
> >
> > I've noticed in looking around the Apache sites that there's a lot of
> > inconsistency in providing links (usually in the sidebars) where people
> > can get on the mailing lists.
>
> since i answer the asf email, thi
Chuck Murcko wrote:
>
> I've noticed in looking around the Apache sites that there's a lot of
> inconsistency in providing links (usually in the sidebars) where people
> can get on the mailing lists.
since i answer the asf email, this is something that has bugged
the crap out of me, and about whi
I've noticed in looking around the Apache sites that there's a lot of
inconsistency in providing links (usually in the sidebars) where people
can get on the mailing lists. Some projects, like Foundation, HTTP
Server, Cocoon and Forrest, provide wide gateways for participation.
Big, friendly, co
Sam Ruby wrote:
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.html
thank you.
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
Sam Ruby wrote:
I'm planning on submitting a proposal to change the bylaws
of Jakarta to bring Jakarta's PMC structure closer to the
HTTPD one.
btw, sam, where are the current bylaws? or do they go by another
name?
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.html
- Sam
"Daniel F. Savarese" wrote:
>
> I hate to digress, but the community-digest list is unusable.
working on it..
I hate to digress, but the community-digest list is unusable.
I (and others) can't handle the volume of email in non-digest mode
and the digest is for the most part broken (i.e., impossible to sift
through efficiently because topic summaries are missing).
My following email to community-digest-own
Sam Ruby wrote:
>
> I'm planning on submitting a proposal to change the bylaws
> of Jakarta to bring Jakarta's PMC structure closer to the
> HTTPD one.
btw, sam, where are the current bylaws? or do they go by another
name?
On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 02:34:43PM -0500, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
> i'm kinda hoping that jeff, nicola, david, and other forrest
> people will be there so we can butt heads.. :-)
Any of you guys want to give us lazy fold a quick tutorial/demo of forrest?
> oh, and likewise for discussing th
i'm kinda hoping that jeff, nicola, david, and other forrest
people will be there so we can butt heads.. :-)
oh, and likewise for discussing the new commons and incubator
projects in person.
[repost in case you've missed it. james/jimw, would you please
forward to any php committers list? php committers are invited,
too..]
In case you had missed it, we'll be having a two-day Hackathon
in Las Vegas before ApacheCon. It'll be the Sunday and Monday
before the conference (17-18 Nov
As far as documentation is concerned, I would be happy to
demonstrate/discuss DocBook and XSLT, if anyone else is interested in
using that for their documentation. I'm quite happy with it for the
Rivet docs, although I'm a bit embarassed to say that at the moment,
we use xsltproc instead of anyth
Having not been to a hackathon before, I'm not sure how this all works,
but I wanted to mention some of the things that I was hoping to work on
there, so that people can be thinking about it. Likewise, it would be
nice to know what other people intend to be working on.
Mads Toftum and I have discu
there have been several mentions over the last three weeks
concerning the need for an apache glossary. i've started
roughing this out; if you're interested, please take a look
at
http://incubator.apache.org/drafts/glossary.html
and let us know what terms/definitions should be added/changed..
On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 06:51:04PM +0100, Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
>...
> Now if this would be all - no worries. However I personally think that the
> transition from that one HTTP crowd to one for HTTP, one for APR, etc, etc
> was already showing that something is a bit amiss in the scaling; e
At 10:26 04.11.2002 -0800, Costin Manolache wrote:
If someone is active in jakarta he probably has all the reasons to
be active in the PMC as well - because most issues will affect him.
Not necessarily. I am not in my town's municipality although many
things that the municipality decides affect me
Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
>
> On 4 Nov 2002, Costin Manolache wrote:
>
> > The protection of the PMC matters the most for those
> > who actually write code and actively participate in jakarta.
>
> Bear in mind that is -this- is the number one aim - we can do
> that without a PMC
no, we can'
On 4 Nov 2002, Costin Manolache wrote:
> The protection of the PMC matters the most for those who actually write
> code and actively participate in jakarta.
Bear in mind that is -this- is the number one aim - we can do that without
a PMC and simply start tracking committers better; or even wid
I partially agree with Dirk's opinion. A very large PMC where people
don't feel a direct need to participate is wrong.
That's the reason I think 'active participants who volunteer for PMC'
is the right solution. If someone doesn't feel 'active' in jakarta or
doesn't have the time or wish to act
I do agree with every point of the proposal - but I can't be fully +1
until the non-normative guidelines are well defined.
I believe everyone who is actively developing code and participate in
jakarta should have the option ( and be encouraged ) to be in the
jakarta PMC.
That's the goal ( IMO
On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
> Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
> >
> > And I do think it is; as a PMC of a hundred members will
> > never act quicker or more focused/quick as a group of 5-10
> > people recruited out of those 100 who have a task (say
> > investigate a license is
Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
>
> And I do think it is; as a PMC of a hundred members will
> never act quicker or more focused/quick as a group of 5-10
> people recruited out of those 100 who have a task (say
> investigate a license issue) and know that there are
> a 100 people looking at them to g
On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 03:52:17AM -0500, Sam Ruby wrote:
> I'm planning on submitting a proposal to change the bylaws of Jakarta to
> bring Jakarta's PMC structure closer to the HTTPD one. Before I do so,
> I would like to gather the opinions of a self selecting cross section of
> both Jakarta
On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Can you tell me what's wrong with a PMC which is almost silent, is
> composed by committers and manages just one codebase? sounds like an
> ideal situation for a PMC.
Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
>Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
>
>>I fundamentally believe that the HTTP PMC model is flawed in
>>its current form; and simply generates another 'layer' and a
>>weird birthday cake.
>
>oh, ah? reminds me of 'democracy is
>(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
You should be ok ;)
Mvgr,
Martin
I would like to apologise for my messing up Costin's vote about the "Ant
to top-level" proposal.
It was a mistake, because I failed to understand that distinction he
made over having a pmc and being top-level (ie leaving jakarta), which
he wanted to convey.
I'll be more careful in collecting v
Ted Husted wrote:
In the interest of precision, my vote on the second item was
actually 0 (not -1) [10/30/2002 09:30:10].
hoopss :) sorry about that. I think we do need a more automatic system
or human accounting will always be buggy like this :/
I personally believe the list should be open, but
On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
> Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
> > I fundamentally believe that the HTTP PMC model is flawed in
> > its current form; and simply generates another 'layer' and a
> > weird birthday cake.
>
> oh, ah? reminds me of 'democracy is the worst system of
Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
>
> I fundamentally believe that the HTTP PMC model is flawed in
> its current form; and simply generates another 'layer' and a
> weird birthday cake.
oh, ah? reminds me of 'democracy is the worst system of government
-- excepting all the others'. :-)
> By simply '
---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: ApacheCon, November 18-21 in
Las Vegas (supported by COMDEX), the only Apache event to be
fully supported by the ASF. http://www.apachecon.com
___
Mvgr,
Martin
On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Sam Ruby wrote:
> I'm planning on submitting a proposal to change the bylaws of Jakarta to
Now this seems an excelent idea to address the immediate and short term
issues around oversight and management.
However I am not sure if this is a good idea in the long run.
I fundam
It smells like a pretty good idea to me.
One question thoughdo you ever sleep? (3:52AM)?
Sam Ruby wrote:
I'm planning on submitting a proposal to change the bylaws of Jakarta
to bring Jakarta's PMC structure closer to the HTTPD one. Before I do
so, I would like to gather the opinions of a s
Sam Ruby wrote:
Thoughts?
+1 to all items.
I think this will help to address the oversight, legal and management issues
that have been raised for the short term. It gives us time for any reorg (is
that a dirty word on this list?) to occur as subprojects desire it, without
having these issues ov
I'm planning on submitting a proposal to change the bylaws of Jakarta to
bring Jakarta's PMC structure closer to the HTTPD one. Before I do so,
I would like to gather the opinions of a self selecting cross section of
both Jakarta and non-Jakarta committers, and it occurs to me that this
mailin
In the interest of precision, my vote on the second item was
actually 0 (not -1) [10/30/2002 09:30:10].
I personally believe the list should be open, but respect the
wishes of others who have a different opinion. At this point, I
thought it best to err on the side of inclusion (of the
Committ
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