Re: [Computer-go] LZ-1a198f-t1-v2600 on CGOS

2018-03-05 Thread Andy
With the recent upgrade to 10 block 128 filter net for LZ a few more people have started running LZ bots on CGOS. I'm running the last 6x128 net as LZ-b3b00c-t1-v3200, and it is using a recent build from the next branch (v0.12-24-g4a77da5). I plan to make this an anchor that runs a long time. I

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

2018-03-05 Thread Hideki Kato
DCNNs are not magic but just non-linear continuous function approximators with finite freedom and we can provide up to 10^8 samples (board positions) in practice. Why do most people believe VN can approximate (perfect or near perfect) value function? What do they estimate the complexity of

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

2018-03-05 Thread Rémi Coulom
Hi, I am not convinced it is better. I guess rollouts can bring some additional strength, especially in a CPU-only setting. I'll test this later. For the moment, my main objective is shogi. I will participate in the World Computer Shogi Championship in May. So I am developing a

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

2018-03-05 Thread Dave Dyer
At 06:31 AM 3/5/2018, valky...@phmp.se wrote: >My guess is that there is some kind of threshold depending on the relative >strength of MC eval and the value function of the NN. My experiments suggest it's better to train with much longer MCTS time than will be used in actual play, so the MCTS

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

2018-03-05 Thread Gian-Carlo Pascutto
On 5/03/2018 12:28, valky...@phmp.se wrote: > Remi twittered more details here (see the discussion with gghideki: > > https://twitter.com/Remi_Coulom/status/969936332205318144 Thank you. So Remi gave up on rollouts as well. Interesting "difference of opinion" there with Zen. Last time I tested

Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

2018-03-05 Thread Gian-Carlo Pascutto
On 5/03/2018 10:54, Dan wrote: > I believe this is a problem of the MCTS used and not due > to for lack of training.  > > Go is a strategic game so that is different from chess that is full of > traps.      Does the Alpha Zero result not indicate the opposite, i.e. that MCTS is workable? --

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

2018-03-05 Thread valkyria
Remi twittered more details here (see the discussion with gghideki: https://twitter.com/Remi_Coulom/status/969936332205318144 On 2018-03-05 10:16, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: On 28-02-18 07:13, Rémi Coulom wrote: Hi, I have just connected the newest version of Crazy Stone to CGOS. It is

Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

2018-03-05 Thread Dan
Actually prior to this it was trained with hundreds of thousands of stockfish games and didn’t do well on tactics (the games were actually a blunder fest). I believe this is a problem of the MCTS used and not due to for lack of training. Go is a strategic game so that is different from chess that

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

2018-03-05 Thread Gian-Carlo Pascutto
On 28-02-18 07:13, Rémi Coulom wrote: > Hi, > > I have just connected the newest version of Crazy Stone to CGOS. It > is based on the AlphaZero approach. In that regard, are you still using Monte Carlo playouts? -- GCP ___ Computer-go mailing list

Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 is last frontier?

2018-03-05 Thread Gian-Carlo Pascutto
On 02-03-18 17:07, Dan wrote: > Leela-chess is not performing well enough I don't understand how one can say that given that they started with the random network last week only and a few clients. Of course it's bad! That doesn't say anything about the approach. Leela Zero has gotten strong but