I gave you a proof of what I am claiming, I really dont see what I can do more.
Anyway we all now all this is just a waste of time for pleasure. People who are
really working on a UCT engine (I dont anymore) will find solutions to these
problems as soon as they become relevant to playing strength
y 23, 2008 11:45:01 AM
Subject: Re : Re : [computer-go] Bent four in the corner was:Scalability
problem of play-out policies
Hi,
This is correct.
Do you think there will be no playouts where the group dies ?
I think there will be around 50% where the group dies. If you think
this is not
ivan dubois wrote:
Hello,
- Message d'origine
De : Michael Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
À : computer-go
Envoyé le : Mercredi, 23 Janvier 2008, 20h38mn 32s
Objet : Re: Re : [computer-go] Bent four in the corner was:Scalability problem
of play-out policies
ivan dubois wro
practical point of view.
Ivan
- Message d'origine
De : Michael Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
À : computer-go
Envoyé le : Mercredi, 23 Janvier 2008, 20h38mn 32s
Objet : Re: Re : [computer-go] Bent four in the corner was:Scalability problem
of play-out policies
ivan dubois
Hello,
- Message d'origine
De : Michael Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
À : computer-go
Envoyé le : Mercredi, 23 Janvier 2008, 20h38mn 32s
Objet : Re: Re : [computer-go] Bent four in the corner was:Scalability problem
of play-out policies
ivan dubois wrote:
> I agree th
I think many of you miss the point completely about the scalability issue.
You can ALWAYS construct a situations where leaf node evaluation is
wrong or where it will take an arbitrary number of play to solve a
particular problem. In chess it is possible to construct problems
that cannot be so
ivan dubois wrote:
I agree that the current implementation of Mogo (from what I know about
it) will not know for sure that the D17 black group is 100% dead.
It will think that it is X% dead and stick to that estimation, whatever
thinking time you give it. X is a constant that does not depend o
sday, January 23, 2008 7:51:52 AM
Subject: Re : [computer-go] Bent four in the corner was:Scalability problem of
play-out policies
Hello,
I agree that the current implementation of Mogo (from what I know about it)
will not know for sure that the D17 black group is 100% dead.
It will th
-go
Envoyé le : Mercredi, 23 Janvier 2008, 17h22mn 35s
Objet : Re: Re : [computer-go] Bent four in the corner was:Scalability problem
of play-out policies
it will only assign it a positive probability of being
dead if there are playouts where the group dies, right?
s.
- Origi
o play perfectly.
- Message d'origine
De : terry mcintyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
À : computer-go
Envoyé le : Mercredi, 23 Janvier 2008, 16h24mn 53s
Objet : Re: Re : [computer-go] Bent four in the corner was:Scalability problem
of play-out policies
Feed any M
ntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
À : computer-go
Envoyé le : Mercredi, 23 Janvier 2008, 16h24mn 53s
Objet : Re: Re : [computer-go] Bent four in the corner was:Scalability problem
of play-out policies
Feed any MC-UCT program the position after White B1, at move 195, and ask the
probability of
players.
Terry McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
- Original Message
From: ivan dubois <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: computer-go
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:17:17 AM
Subject: Re : [computer-go] Bent four in the corner was:Scalability problem of
play-out policies
Hello,
After th
it)
Ivan
- Message d'origine
De : Harald Korneliussen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
À : computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé le : Mercredi, 23 Janvier 2008, 15h31mn 20s
Objet : [computer-go] Bent four in the corner was:Scalability problem of
play-out policies
Ivan Dubois mentioned the bent fou
From: Harald Korneliussen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>I recalled a KGS game of Mogo I'd looked at, where something very similar
>happened, and with a little digging I found it again:
> http://files.gokgs.com/games/2007/12/1/Ardalan-MoGoBot3.sgf
Thanks for the example! That's the infamous "square four"
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008, Harald Korneliussen wrote:
> It turns out it's not the "bent four" shape, but I suspect it's
> another such shape, where more playouts only confirm that "these moves
> aren't worth including into the tree", so that UCT catches them very
> late, if ever.
Just a quick note tha
Ivan Dubois mentioned the bent four in the corner shape as a
scalability killer, a situation where more playouts doesn't help
(much), because playouts systematically misevaluate it. As I
understand it, it could be corrected in the tree, but this is very
unlikely to happen until the very end of a g
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