[CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Just saw another new Windows ad on TV. No Lauren. A guy this time. He says that Macs are all about esthetics, not computing power. He wants a Windows machine because he is "picky." He is an elitist. Steve * ** List

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Yes! When I saw that I was reminded of some results of a speed test I saw a year or two ago that showed that a Mac ran Windows faster than the Dell, HP and other Windows machines in the test. phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Just saw another new Windows ad on TV. No Lauren. A guy this time. He

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>Just saw another new Windows ad on TV. No Lauren. A guy this time. > He says that Macs are all about esthetics, not computing power. He >wants a Windows machine because he is "picky." He is an elitist. Laptop Hunters strikes again. And misfires again. This time we meet "G." I encounter this

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> Laptop Hunters strikes again. And misfires again. > > This time we meet "G." I encounter this type of person from time to time. > Someone with a tenuous grasp on technology who thinks they know it all. > Best to just stand back and let them waste their money. Not a sympathetic > character either.

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Tom Piwowar wrote: "G" says Macs are all about esthetics and proves he isn't by selecting a really ugly computer. Like Lauren's, the computer he selects is huge, not what most people today think of as a laptop. It is really a compact desktop. Does not look like something a "picky" person would b

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

After reading Tom's response, and the first email calling the windows guy elitist, I'm thinking some don't know what elitist means. It's hard to be an elitist when you are the populist. It's interesting to watch the MFB's sputter on for a page about how much these ads don't matter..so much they h

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

I doubt windows users give it a second thought let alone sit around steaming about how nice a MBP is compared to a HP or Dell. I know when a friend came over with his new MBP the first thing I thought was that it was extremely beautiful. Can't say it was 2300 dollars more beautiful then the HP I

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>Also, Tom, you may want to actually watch the I'm a mac/I'm a pc ads...I >don't recall OS X ever being shown at all. But I could be wrong. You need to work on your vocabulary... personification (põr-sÄn1õ-f¾-kE2shõn) n. Artistic representation of an abstract quality or idea as a person. *

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Mike, You sound like you've never torn down a Mac; maybe not even a PC, to replace or upgrade components. You've probably never spec'ed, sourced and built a PC either. Just another ignorant WFB. So Mac and PC both use the same components, eh? Salesmen at Bestbuy must love you! Thank you, Ma

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>I think again this is mac users attributing their own feelings to those they >think they are competing with. I was listening to Adam Corolla the other >day, he was talking about the worst thing that happens to movie stars when >their name is mentioned is not someone saying 'oh I HATE that guy', i

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Um..might want to read what you wrote...you brought up never showing the product. On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > >Also, Tom, you may want to actually watch the I'm a mac/I'm a pc ads...I > >don't recall OS X ever being shown at all. But I could be wrong. > > You need to wo

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>After reading Tom's response, and the first email calling the windows guy >elitist, I'm thinking some don't know what elitist means. It's hard to be >an elitist when you are the populist. "G" seems to be a caricature of what MS thinks a MFBs looks like, but to me he looked from the start like

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Probably right...I'm only sitting at the ninth or tenth version of my current whitebox I built from ground up. Not to mention the one I have behind the tv. Or the macs from years ago I took apart and put back together.. Best Buy? Nah, I usually stick to the wholesaler downtown or Fry's electro

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

In truth, "most" average users have never torn down anything. They don't tear down their TV's to tweak it's performance, they don't tear down their IPods, or their gaming machines, or their cars. They buy something that does what they want it to do for the price they're willing to pay. Pe

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Ok...who makes the camera in the Apple laptops? Who makes the sensor in the windows box? I'm sure you know who builds them since you know the sensor in the windows box is sub standard. On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > >After reading Tom's response, and the first email call

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>Of course apple ram is so much better, they have the same switch when memory >is made. Read about DDR2 vs DDR3 before you spout off. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, ca

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Okay, so you can tell the different advantages and costs between, say PATA, SATA and SAS, right? You know, for example, which max-out at 7,200 RPM and which go to 15K RPM, and you know the cost differences as well. Same with power supplies and so on, right? You can compare configurations by comp

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>Ok...who makes the camera in the Apple laptops? Who makes the sensor in the >windows box? I'm sure you know who builds them since you know the sensor in >the windows box is sub standard. That entire class of sensors is substandard: Mac and PC. The problem is with the cooing, not the sensor.

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>To imply that the average Joe knows anything more about their equipment >than they read in some magazine somewhere is wrong. Ignorance raised to the level of virtue. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, a

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Kind of reminds me of he old school yard argument on whose daddy could beat up who. Or for the older boys who has the bigger Stewart At 02:04 PM 4/7/2009, you wrote: Hahaha...Not real sure that MS is to blame for the fact that we're easily entertained! :-) This thread has been fun

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Well all I know is that many years ago my boss would answer tech questions this way. We don't do Windows and we don't do Mac's. He himself was a MFB. Stewart At 02:21 PM 4/7/2009, you wrote: mike wrote: ..all the other users are just sitting around saying, apple who? They know who Apple i

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> Four times faster memory access. It's like a 4-lane road, desgined to handle 1,000 cars/minute, with a speed limit 100 MPH, but has 6,000 cars per minute on it. It doesn't matter how big the road is if it's filled with nothing but 911 Targas driven by legally-blind little old ladies with glacia

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

mike wrote: ..all the other users are just sitting around saying, apple who? They know who Apple is, it's just not on their radar . Is that the definition of cluelessness or ignorance? * ** List info, subscription ma

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>Basically, the laptop hunter ads are not targeted to those that populate >this list I don't believe. But we are more entertained by them than the average joe. Have you seen the various stop-motion dissections of the ads posted on YouTube? I hope MS does not start issuing take down orders.

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Hahaha...Not real sure that MS is to blame for the fact that we're easily entertained! :-) This thread has been fun to watch though. I will admit that! D In a message dated 4/7/2009 3:01:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, t...@tjpa.com writes: But we are more entertained by them than the

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>> Read about DDR2 vs DDR3 before you spout off. > >A marginal performance increase, ~5%, in most applications for a >significant price premium, ~100%-200%. IOW, very Mac-like. Four times faster memory access. A GB of DDR2 is about $18, DDR3 is $30. For WFBs $12 is a lot of money. I'm waiting t

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>Don't believe me? Let a fellow MFB explain it all for you: >http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-654277.html Old benchmarks run with old chipsets that don't take advantage of DDR3 show speed increases of 2 to 5 percent. Not much, but not bad for $12. http://www.anandtech.com/memory/s

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> Old benchmarks run with old chipsets that don't take advantage of DDR3 > show speed increases of 2 to 5 percent. Not much, but not bad for $12. > http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2989&p=8 I call 2-5% statistically insignificant. So, you can get a new motherboard and 1 GB of RAM

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> Old benchmarks run with old chipsets that don't take advantage of DDR3 > show speed increases of 2 to 5 percent. Not much, but not bad for $12. > http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2989&p=8 I saw that test and avoided mentioning it because it was so old. Turns out, not much has chan

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>I call 2-5% statistically insignificant. WFBs love to wallow in cheap. That's why the bad choices made in Laptop Hunters are so appealing to you. A 2-5% gain with an old chip set not set up for DDR3 does show that the new technology has a benefit. Marry that with a new chip set made for DDR

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Never going to win an argument about not saving money with a mac user, that's for sure. On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > >I call 2-5% statistically insignificant. > > WFBs love to wallow in cheap. That's why the bad choices made in Laptop > Hunters are so appealing to you. >

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Right now I would declare it even. They both have the same size. GIVE IT UP GUYS! Stewart At 07:55 PM 4/7/2009, you wrote: >I call 2-5% statistically insignificant. WFBs love to wallow in cheap. That's why the bad choices made in Laptop Hunters are so appealing to you. A 2-5% gain with an o

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> WFBs love to wallow in cheap. That's why the bad choices made in Laptop > Hunters are so appealing to you. The only thing appealing to me about the ads are how they drive you and rest of the Bizarro-Scooby Gang bat-shit crazy. ***

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> Have you seen > the various stop-motion dissections of the ads posted on YouTube? Oh. My. God. I've seriously been underestimating how much deep, deep psychosis this ad has disturbed. * ** List info, subscription managem

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> Right now I would declare it even. > > They both have the same size. > > GIVE IT UP GUYS! I do believe that's what I've been claiming all along. I don't like to talk, but it's a little known fact that Tom was rejected as an early version of Smilin' Bob for the Enzyte ads. *

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Hmmm...does make one wonder who on this list has a very expensive lil red sports car doesn't it? :-) D In a message dated 4/7/2009 3:27:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, popoz...@earthlink.net writes: Kind of reminds me of he old school yard argument on whose daddy could beat up who. Or

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

He who dies with the most toys wins. (I am not sure what.) Stewart At 09:13 PM 4/7/2009, you wrote: Hmmm...does make one wonder who on this list has a very expensive lil red sports car doesn't it? :-) D In a message dated 4/7/2009 3:27:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, popoz...@earthlink.net

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

He who dies with the most toys wins. (I am not sure what.) Grateful heirs, I presume. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>He who dies with the most toys wins. (I am not sure what.) I bet that sermon packs them into your pews. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and mo

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>Never going to win an argument about not saving money with a mac user, >that's for sure. 30 percent faster for $0 more is certainly going to disturb WFBs. I bet you could save even more money by sticking to the good old 8008 processor. You could dig them up out of landfills. Dirt cheap computin

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

So the original article says 21%...you quoted it at 23% and now it's 30% by your estimates. If you wait a couple more days to email this thread again, you might get an increase of 85 to 92%. BTW, the increases in speed of hardware aren't just on macs...sh..they also are on machines that run w

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>> 30 percent faster for $0 more is certainly going to disturb WFBs. >> > So the original article says 21%...you quoted it at 23% and now it's 30% by > your estimates.  If you wait a couple more days to email this thread again, > you might get an increase of 85 to 92%. > > BTW, the increases in spe

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: > Mike, the reason you don't understand his thinking is because you > aren't thinking lilke a MFB.  He obviously gets brand new Macs, > complete with the latest hardware, for free. > > Either that, or elves magically upgrade his old computers to

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>> BTW, the increases in speed of hardware aren't just on macs...sh..they >> also are on machines that run windows and linux. Duuh! But Jeff still cranks out those 8008 systems. Innnovation? Bah, humbug! We don't need no stinkin' innovation. *

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Sermons about Sex work better. When I lived in Wisconsin there was a car dealer whose name was "Big Boys Toys". Stewart At 10:13 AM 4/8/2009, you wrote: >He who dies with the most toys wins. (I am not sure what.) I bet that sermon packs them into your pews.

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

I finally got to see one of these. He wanted a BIG system (desktop replacement) as he wanted a full size keyboard. Many 17" laptop's use a full size type keyboard, (complete with number key pad) I also noticed that it looks like HP is helping to underwrite these ads. You mentioned that the las

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> I can't wait for the next MS ad to come out. This last one led to > loads of fun. $300 for a new 14.1" Dell business line laptop. Its specs are nothing to throw a party over, but for most people, it's adequate, but more importantly, can be cheaply and easily upgraded and still walk away with

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>Good luck finding a Macbook at even double this price, which has been the >point of these ads all along (that and the notion of massive amounts of >choice). I just read a report (sorry I don't have the link handy) that the average profit margin for a PC manufacturer is down to 1.7%. That implies

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Well, PC's are cheap...they are MORE expensive with windows on them, not less, so it's not like it's MS driving the prices down...it's called competition...something the MFB's have never really heard of. That said..I've been wondering if companies like Acer, MSI..ASUS, are eating up some of their

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> I just read a report (sorry I don't have the link handy) that the average > profit margin for a PC manufacturer is down to 1.7%. That implies that > many of them are at less than 0%. This is why you love to quote stats so much; you can get them to say whatever you want with enough vague hand-wav

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: > Wait, I keep forgetting, is competition and choice good or bad with > you?  My money is on bad. In the Windows world, the competition is between the makers of the machines that run the OS. Apple makes its machines, so there is no competitio

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:16 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: > On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: > > > > Most Mac users have at least some degree of experience using Windows > equipped computers, but few Windows users have ever had their hands on > a Mac to any practical degree.

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 4:50 PM, mike wrote: > Macs are sexy and have fantastic aesthetics...and I don't say that > sarcastically at all.  He is making two points, A: they are sexy and B: they > have little computing power.  I took this as little computing power for the > price...which is true.

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>As to the profit margin, so what? That's the standard profit margin >for the grocery industry and we're still able to go shopping for >groceries year after year. Even still, companies come and go all the >time; is this news to you? Are you really that clueless about business economics? I expect

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> Don't get snarky here. Who?? Me? >  In the Windows world, the competition is between the makers of the > machines that run the OS.  Apple makes its machines, so there is no > competition in the machine arena. I don't think that is necessarily true. Apple and PC makers do compete with one ano

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> The number one reason I am given > by Windows users when i ask why they use that OS is one of necessity. > They maintain they have to have Windows for better or for worse is > because, and I'm not making this up, "Everyone else has it."  They > fear being left out in the cold.  Basically, Windows

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>Most Mac users have at least some degree of experience using Windows >equipped computers, but few Windows users have ever had their hands on >a Mac to any practical degree. In the latest ad, "G" says that Macs >are "sexy" and great on aesthetics but they have little computing >power compared to a

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Wrong. You are arguing the pc makers have a profit margin of 0 or less and then you say 1.7 is unsustainable? No wonder macs have a reputation for being bad at business. On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > >As to the profit margin, so what? That's the standard profit margin >

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: > I use Windows because it's what I have used the most over time and it > does what I need it to do. I've used Macs and they have some definite > advantages over PCs, but none that are compelling to me.  I roll my > own at home and buy for my .or

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>So, for the sake of this particular message, let's put aside the >talk of wide choices in the make and model of the machine and focus >instead purely on the OS. Are the "buyers" who are being targeted in >any ads for any computer making their choices based upon the OS or >based primarily upon the

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>Want proof? Check apple prices on memory upgrades on new machines as >opposed to buying memory from a vendor. Dell overcharges just as much. I've seen printer manufacturers overcharge by 500-1000%. Best Buy's prices are crazy. I bet many others overcharge too. **

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>The number one reason I am given by Windows users when i ask why they use >that OS is one of necessity. They maintain they have to have Windows for >better or for worse is because, and I'm not making this up, "Everyone else >has it."  They fear being left out in the cold. Definitely. A signifi

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: >>Of course apple ram is so much better, they have the same switch when memory >>is made. > > Read about DDR2 vs DDR3 before you spout off. A marginal performance increase, ~5%, in most applications for a significant price premium, ~100%-200%. I

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> just sarcastic cheap shots? He's right, Mike. I mean, really, sarcastic cheap shots are never fired from McHeadquarters, right? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmne

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Ahh...you know what they say. Ignorance is bliss! :-) Plus, to be honest, how fast can you blink? For those that it takes upwards of a minute just to locate the correct button to click on, or the right key to press, whether the result of that click/keystroke takes almost the blink of an

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

I have bought computers since the 1980's, both personal use (Apple) and corporate/government-contracts (SGI, Sun, many PC vendors). I Never buy _any_ additional memory from the computer vendor. It has always been cheaper to buy memory from a memory vendor - much cheaper! That "proof" is Bo-o-ogu

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > Definitely. A significant percentage of Windows buyers are motivated by low > self esteem. This is a well-known phenomenon. In some cases perhaps. When I speak of what type of computer one wants, I am speaking of personal use. A fair nu

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>  When I speak of what type of computer one wants, I am speaking of > personal use.  A fair number of purchases for personal use are also > predicated upon the need to do work at home for an employer. It may very well be the situation, but that is a business tool needs case. >  Windows buyers fe

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> Are you really that clueless about business economics? I expect better, > even from a WFB. To stay in business these companies are either going to > raise prices 50 to 100% or start sourcing their parts at junkyards. A > profit margin that slim is simply unsustainable. Project, monkey boy, proje

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> My response was aimed at Tom who thinks that giving consumers a good > bargain is a bad thing. In his book, $$$ = quality; it's largely an > exercise in snobbery. There is some correlation with price and > reliability, but not always. In real estate, it's location, location, > location. You a

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Most products have at least a 50% markup [that means base cost is 50% of selling price, not including shipping, handling, storage, marketing, advertising, sales]. With some electronics it has been as low as 10% to cover costs and have a minimal profit. A net profit of 1.7% is hardly worth doing

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> You have it backwards. $$$ doesn't equal quality. However, often it costs > more to design and make a quality product--and have money left over for R&D. No, I don't have it backwards; I explained as much. Please read again what I wrote.

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> Apple is very good at business. They offer excellent products at a fair > price with enough cash left over for R&D. How much of the competitors' 1.7% > profit goes to R&D? Betty--Assuming Tom's claim is real (he misplaced his link to back this up, goshdarnit!), 1.7% is an average of ALL PC maker

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

There is another problem with this number. Apple combines their whole operation. Hardware and Software. You would have to separate out what their profit margin is on the OS, and what their profit margin is on their hardware (Computer) MS does not sell computers. They sell an OS, a Suite and

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Foxconn makes boards for Apple towers too, I believe ASUS handles the laptop side. On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall < popoz...@earthlink.net> wrote: > There is another problem with this number. > > Apple combines their whole operation. Hardware and Software. > > You would

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Chronologically: Steve W. & Steve J. came first. The hardware came first, then an OS to make the hardware do something useful in a relatively easy manner. Bill G. came last. It wasn't his hardware. The hardware was made by IBM. He didn't "decide to sell an OS." IBM licensed QDOS from Bill,

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Orginally being? OS X is based on freebsd and other open standard projects, not at all an apple designed os..Apple did what a lot of companies do, take a product and make it better. Classic mac OS was partially based on things coming out of xerox. I believe Jobs hired on one or several? of the g

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> Chronologically: > Steve W. & Steve J. came first. The hardware came first, then an OS to > make the hardware do something useful in a relatively easy manner. > > Bill G. came last. It wasn't his hardware. The hardware was made by > IBM. I think that chronology is accurate, but only you're talk

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> Orginally being? > > OS X is based on freebsd and other open standard projects, > not at all an apple designed os..Apple did what a lot of > companies do, take a product and make it better. > > Classic mac OS was partially based on things coming out of > xerox. I believe Jobs hired on one o

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> Classic mac OS was partially based on things coming out of > xerox. I believe Jobs hired on one or several? of the guys > who worked for xerox to work on the lisa OS. Someone here > might know that history better. Not really. The Mac team did interact with the Xerox team as they were nearb

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> Bill G. came last. It wasn't his hardware. The hardware was made by > IBM. And the OS was written by Digital Research. Some say MS stole it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** p

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIMP_(computing) Doesn't look like it was just a mockup. On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > > Classic mac OS was partially based on things coming out of > > xerox. I believe Jobs hired on one or several? of the guys > > who worked for xerox to wo

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> > Bill G. came last. It wasn't his hardware. The hardware was made by > > IBM. > > And the OS was written by Digital Research. Some say MS stole it. Oh, boy, here we go. Who exactly says that, and why? MS licensed it, which to the best of my knowledge isn't theft. (Anyway, it was Seattle Comp

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>Oh, boy, here we go. >Who exactly says that, and why? MS licensed it, which to the best of my >knowledge isn't theft. >(Anyway, it was Seattle Computer Products, not DR. DR's OS was CP/M.) I'm sure MS has a division assigned to rewriting history and you have a shelf of their briefing books...

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> http://www.mackido.com/History/History_DrDos.html > > I caution anyone following this story to check the source of the > information they are reading. I could not agree more. Obviously, the absolute best place to get PC history is from an article on a Mac site that contains a WHOLE lot of bil

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIMP_(computing) >Doesn't look like it was just a mockup. You haven't a clue. Stop wasting everyone's time. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Nothing to see here...don't look over here! On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIMP_(computing) > >Doesn't look like it was just a mockup. > > You haven't a clue. Stop wasting everyone's time. >

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Tom Piwowar >> Bill G. came last. It wasn't his hardware. The hardware was >> made by IBM. > And the OS was written by Digital Research. Some say MS stole it. Hmmm, no. As I understand the story, IBM went to Digital Research and the guy there blew off the meeting with IBM for licensing CPM. Nex

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

You are missing the mac angle where gates lied, betrayed and stole. On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote: > Tom Piwowar > >> Bill G. came last. It wasn't his hardware. The hardware was > >> made by IBM. > > > And the OS was written by Digital Research. Some say MS stole it. >

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>Hmmm, no. As I understand the story... But you are Ballmer's lapdog. Why should I believe your version? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and mo

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> > And the OS was written by Digital Research. Some say MS stole it. > > Hmmm, no. As I understand the story, IBM went to Digital > Research and the guy there blew off the meeting with IBM for > licensing CPM. Next, IBM went to MS, they had a BASIC > interpreter for CPM. Gates said "Sure, we'l

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> l...@listserv.aol.com] On Behalf Of Tom Piwowar > Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 2:38 PM > Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad... > > >Hmmm, no. As I understand the story... > > But you are Ballmer's lapdog. Why should I believe your version? &quo

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Tom Piwowar >>Oh, boy, here we go. >>Who exactly says that, and why? MS licensed it, which to the >>best of my knowledge isn't theft. >>(Anyway, it was Seattle Computer Products, not DR. DR's OS >>was CP/M.) > I'm sure MS has a division assigned to rewriting history and > you have a shelf of thei

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Computer_Products >and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS With an army for foot soldiers, just like you, Wikipedia will say whatever MS wants it to say. First hand accounts from folks who were around at the time will of course be derided by you. BTW,

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> BTW, on the topic of cheating, did anyone notice that the good fellas > at > MS were just fined $11.8M for price rigging MS Office? I have a question: when you read articles like this, do you rub your palms together vigorously or is it more of a hand-washing action where you rub your hands over

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

You sometimes have to wonder who Intel has in their back pocket. They have been guilty of far more price manipulation than MS and they seem to glide right on through? Stewart At 09:03 PM 4/11/2009, you wrote: I have a question: when you read articles like this, do you rub your palms togeth

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>(McFan provides no sources or facts to back any of this up, but I don't see >why that should concern anyone.) Do you think old-timers aren't providing sources because they are giving first-person accounts? http://aaxnet.com/topics/msinc.html "1982 - Digital Research sues Microsoft and IBM - Wi

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

>They are in violation of an strange German law, where they can communicate >with retailers in one certain way, but not in another certain way. >According to German law, when they meet for the second time, the handshake >must be performed with both parties standing, with each party having a firm >g

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

Number three. The Sony Vaio is less lame. But this one is funnier... www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pQTsXoh5i8 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and mor

Re: [CGUYS] Another new Windows ad...

> Do you think old-timers aren't providing sources because they are giving first-person accounts? > http://aaxnet.com/topics/msinc.html > > "1982 - Digital Research sues Microsoft and IBM - Wins - It was obvious > MS-DOS and its PC-DOS variant were simply rip- offs of Digital > Research's > CP/M o

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