[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-10 Thread Paul Menzel
Dear Piotr, Am 10.05.21 um 13:51 schrieb Piotr Król: On 5/10/21 1:45 PM, Paul Menzel wrote: Am 10.05.21 um 10:51 schrieb Piotr Król: On 5/8/21 9:24 AM, Paul Menzel wrote: Am 28.04.21 um 00:38 schrieb Piotr Król: (...) This is one part of the problem, other is specifications compati

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-10 Thread Piotr Król
On 5/10/21 1:45 PM, Paul Menzel wrote: > Dear Piotr, > > > Am 10.05.21 um 10:51 schrieb Piotr Król: > >> On 5/8/21 9:24 AM, Paul Menzel wrote: > >>> Am 28.04.21 um 00:38 schrieb Piotr Król: >> >> (...) >> This is one part of the problem, other is specifications compatibility where A

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-10 Thread Paul Menzel
Dear Piotr, Am 10.05.21 um 10:51 schrieb Piotr Król: On 5/8/21 9:24 AM, Paul Menzel wrote: Am 28.04.21 um 00:38 schrieb Piotr Król: (...) This is one part of the problem, other is specifications compatibility where ACPI is one that breaks things often. coreboot moves with ACPI compiler

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-10 Thread Piotr Król
On 5/8/21 9:24 AM, Paul Menzel wrote: > Dear Piotr, Hi Paul, > > > Thank you for bringing up these issues. > > Am 28.04.21 um 00:38 schrieb Piotr Król: (...) >> This is one part of the problem, other is specifications compatibility >> where ACPI is one that breaks things often. coreboot mo

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-08 Thread Paul Menzel
Dear Piotr, Thank you for bringing up these issues. Am 28.04.21 um 00:38 schrieb Piotr Król: On 4/21/21 8:33 PM, Patrick Georgi via coreboot wrote: In our leadership meeting[1] we discussed how we should deal with tree-wide changes (ranging from "new file header" to "some API is gone now"

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-08 Thread Patrick Georgi via coreboot
Am Sa., 8. Mai 2021 um 03:08 Uhr schrieb Julius Werner : > I understand that you might like to have both [features and stability] but > I think that's just fundamentally impossible -- big new features just tend > to require deep, invasive changes. +1 > I think we could encourage that, I don't t

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-07 Thread Julius Werner
> > Rebasing for security seems odd. Usually one has to re-evaluate security > > completely after a rebase. In my experience, security features randomly > > break upstream like everything else. There is no stability guarantee. > > Maybe it is odd, but backporting Intel Boot Guard or vboot to old br

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-06 Thread Peter Stuge
Piotr Król wrote: > I don't understand argument about running significant ("enough") of > the infrastructure. Why maintainers of platforms do not run their > part of infrastructure which support those platforms? I think this is a key point. It's a lot easier to develop centralized solutions, so th

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-06 Thread Piotr Król
On 5/6/21 11:34 PM, Nico Huber wrote: > Hi Piotr, Hi Nico, > > it feels like we are discussing the wrong things here. I've also looked > at the Gerrit discussion[1]. We are discussing solutions, while the root > cause is not understood yet. Of course it was not my intention to push any soluti

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-06 Thread Peter Stuge
Nico Huber wrote: > > Another idea brought up was to require that such changes come with > > documentation and, ideally, migration support in the form of scripts and > > the like. We had something like this in the past[2] and I created a > > proposal[3] to establish it as a rule and build a culture

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-06 Thread Piotr Król
On 5/6/21 2:43 PM, Patrick Georgi wrote: > Am Do., 6. Mai 2021 um 14:03 Uhr schrieb Piotr Król > mailto:piotr.k...@3mdeb.com>>: > > If 3mdeb maintains some boards, we already testing those and would be > glad to hook, in secure way, to patch testing system, but I would like > to know

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-06 Thread Nico Huber
Hi Piotr, it feels like we are discussing the wrong things here. I've also looked at the Gerrit discussion[1]. We are discussing solutions, while the root cause is not understood yet. On 06.05.21 00:13, Piotr Król wrote: > There are many reasons for rebasing or updating firmware to name few > sec

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-06 Thread Patrick Georgi via coreboot
Am Do., 6. Mai 2021 um 14:03 Uhr schrieb Piotr Król : > If 3mdeb maintains some boards, we already testing those and would be > glad to hook, in secure way, to patch testing system, but I would like > to know where is interface documentation so I can evaluate cost of > integration and convince cus

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-06 Thread Piotr Król
On 5/6/21 1:35 AM, Julius Werner wrote: >>> As an >>> open source project, coreboot doesn't have anywhere near the resources >>> to do enough QA to guarantee that the tip of the master branch (or any >>> branch or tag, for that matter) was stable enough to be shipped in a >>> product at any point

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-05 Thread Julius Werner
> > As an > > open source project, coreboot doesn't have anywhere near the resources > > to do enough QA to guarantee that the tip of the master branch (or any > > branch or tag, for that matter) was stable enough to be shipped in a > > product at any point in time... even Linux cannot do that, and

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-05 Thread Piotr Król
On 5/5/21 10:56 PM, Julius Werner wrote: Hi Julius, > Sorry for being a bit late here, but I wanted to second what Nico > said. It's important to not add undue burden to the development > process. I think the master branch is meant for development, not for > shipping long-term stable products.

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-05-05 Thread Julius Werner
Sorry for being a bit late here, but I wanted to second what Nico said. It's important to not add undue burden to the development process. I think the master branch is meant for development, not for shipping long-term stable products. If you're installing coreboot in a train or medical device, then

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-04-27 Thread Piotr Król
On 4/21/21 8:33 PM, Patrick Georgi via coreboot wrote: > Hi everybody, Hi, > > In our leadership meeting[1] we discussed how we should deal with > tree-wide changes (ranging from "new file header" to "some API is gone > now"). The concern was that right now, anything can change at any time, >

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-04-27 Thread Patrick Georgi via coreboot
Am Do., 22. Apr. 2021 um 22:58 Uhr schrieb Peter Stuge : > Patrick Georgi via coreboot wrote: > > tree-wide changes > .. > > there may be other approaches on how to make development easier > > I'm a big fan of semantic patching as provided by coccinelle and used > heavily in Linux kernel developme

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-04-22 Thread Peter Stuge
Patrick Georgi via coreboot wrote: > tree-wide changes .. > there may be other approaches on how to make development easier I'm a big fan of semantic patching as provided by coccinelle and used heavily in Linux kernel development. Perhaps one way to make lives easier is to require tree-wide chang

[coreboot] Re: [RFC] How should we manage tree-wide changes?

2021-04-22 Thread Nico Huber
Hi, On 21.04.21 20:33, Patrick Georgi via coreboot wrote: > Hi everybody, > > In our leadership meeting[1] we discussed how we should deal with tree-wide > changes (ranging from "new file header" to "some API is gone now"). The > concern was that right now, anything can change at any time, making