Re: [cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator, failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-20 Thread Jeffrey Walton
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 2:57 AM, Peter Bowen wrote: > On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 10:35 PM, Yaron Sheffer wrote: >> A few months ago I posted a query to the Amazon Web Services (the >> largest public cloud, running on Xen) forum on whether they're using libvirt >> for this purpose, and it was never a

Re: [cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-20 Thread Greg Rose
On Jul 20, 2013, at 5:59 , "Dean, James" wrote: > Ø If my 64-bit hardware TRNG can only generate 1% of 64-bit numbers > (probably because I hacked it), how are you going to discover that anytime > soon? > > Test for more collisions than predicted by the birthday paradox. Or less collisions

Re: [cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-20 Thread Russell Leidich
I agree, in theory. But: 1. How many register reads would one need in order to show Birthday compliance? (It's not the usual "root of the state space", because a single collision isn't convincing.) These reads tend to be slow, because the circuit designers generally need to guardband their entropy

Re: [cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-20 Thread Dean, James
Ø If my 64-bit hardware TRNG can only generate 1% of 64-bit numbers (probably because I hacked it), how are you going to discover that anytime soon? Test for more collisions than predicted by the birthday paradox. ___ cryptography mailing list cryptogr

Re: [cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-20 Thread Russell Leidich
RANDU issues aside, I don't think thermal or even quantum noise is a good basis upon which to produce a true random number generator. And not because good noise sources don't exist. But because, in the interest of trustworthiness, we want to have TRNGs which are as high as possible in the stack. (L

Re: [cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator, failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-19 Thread Peter Bowen
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 10:35 PM, Yaron Sheffer wrote: > A few months ago I posted a query to the Amazon Web Services (the > largest public cloud, running on Xen) forum on whether they're using libvirt > for this purpose, and it was never answered. Does anybody around here have a > clue? Amazon E

Re: [cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator, failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-19 Thread Yaron Sheffer
A few months ago I posted a query [1] to the Amazon Web Services (the largest public cloud, running on Xen) forum on whether they're using libvirt for this purpose, and it was never answered. Does anybody around here have a clue? Thanks, Yaron [1]https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.js

Re: [cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-19 Thread David Johnston
On 7/19/2013 3:26 PM, Nico Williams wrote: The rpi's HW RNG is almost certainly better than many /dev/*random implementations running as VM guests. How much real business is getting transacted on VMs nowadays? Probably a lot. This probably sounds like a plug for my employer, which it isn't, b

Re: [cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-19 Thread David Johnston
On 7/19/2013 10:13 AM, Mahrud S wrote: Isn't the thermal noise a good enough entropy source? I mean, it's a $25 computer, you can't expect much of it. Directly sampled thermal noise entropy sources have proven: 1) Difficult to model mathematically to determine safe value for min entropy. 2)

Re: [cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-19 Thread Steve Weis
Hypervisors like KVM can expose random number generator devices to guests: http://libvirt.org/formatdomain.html#elementsRng Funny, because I just noticed KVM's default is /dev/random. If that's the case, I think a guest could exhaust the entropy pool, cause /dev/random to block, and stall any othe

Re: [cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-19 Thread Lodewijk andré de la porte
2013/7/19 Mahrud S > Isn't the thermal noise a good enough entropy source? I mean, it's a $25 > computer, you can't expect much of it. "See, sir, you shouldn't wonder why all your data isn't actually encrypted. You shouldn't think it's weird that nothing is secure on your pc. And that everyone

Re: [cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-19 Thread Nico Williams
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Lodewijk andré de la porte wrote: > 2013/7/19 Mahrud S >> Isn't the thermal noise a good enough entropy source? I mean, it's a $25 >> computer, you can't expect much of it. > > "See, sir, you shouldn't wonder why all your data isn't actually encrypted. > You shoul

Re: [cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-19 Thread Mahrud S
Isn't the thermal noise a good enough entropy source? I mean, it's a $25 computer, you can't expect much of it. On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 8:44 AM, David Johnston wrote: > On 7/19/2013 5:44 AM, Peter Gutmann wrote: > >> Eugen Leitl quotes: >> >> Just came accross this article, apparently showing

Re: [cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-19 Thread David Johnston
On 7/19/2013 5:44 AM, Peter Gutmann wrote: Eugen Leitl quotes: Just came accross this article, apparently showing the bad quality of the hardware RNG in Raspberri Pi devices. http://scruss.com/blog/2013/06/07/well-that-was-unexpected-the-raspberry-pis-hardware-random-number-generator/ That s

Re: [cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-19 Thread Peter Gutmann
Eugen Leitl quotes: >Just came accross this article, apparently showing the bad quality of the >hardware RNG in Raspberri Pi devices. > >http://scruss.com/blog/2013/06/07/well-that-was-unexpected-the-raspberry-pis-hardware-random-number-generator/ That shows the bad quality of RANDU. It shows t

[cryptography] [liberationtech] Random number generator failure in Rasperri Pis?

2013-07-19 Thread Eugen Leitl
- Forwarded message from KheOps - Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:03:23 +0200 From: KheOps To: "liberationt...@lists.stanford.edu" Subject: [liberationtech] Random number generator failure in Rasperri Pis? User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130623 Thunderbird/17.0.7