Re: [css-d] 'letter-spacing' - pixels only?

28.10.2011 5:00, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: Letter-spacing with modern fonts is something for ornamental effects, > as those modern (digital) fonts have build-in kerning tables Mostly, but all-uppercase text may benefit from some added spacing. In principle, fonts could have all uppercase co

Re: [css-d] 'letter-spacing' - pixels only?

On Oct 28, 2011, at 10:34 AM, ChrisIzatt wrote: > So you don't agree that letter-spacing should be able to be adjusted on text > that isn't large? Why? Letter-spacing with modern fonts is something for ornamental effects, as those modern (digital) fonts have build-in kerning tables - and more o

Re: [css-d] 'letter-spacing' - pixels only?

On Oct 27, 2011, at 8:34 PM, ChrisIzatt wrote: > So you don't agree that letter-spacing should be able to be adjusted on text > that isn't large? Why? When I tried it a year ago, using small amounts on text-size type, it would have no affect as I increased the amount. And then one additional i

Re: [css-d] 'letter-spacing' - pixels only?

So you don't agree that letter-spacing should be able to be adjusted on text that isn't large? Why? -- View this message in context: http://css.2040035.n2.nabble.com/letter-spacing-pixels-only-tp6938341p6938591.html Sent from the css-discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___

Re: [css-d] 'letter-spacing' - pixels only?

On 10/27/11 8:46 PM, ChrisIzatt wrote: @David: Seriously? Did you read this post properly? em does not work just fine. And are you really trying to go with that whole "on the web..." argument? Letter-spacing has a huge impact on the appearance of a font at any size. The fact that we can only reli

Re: [css-d] 'letter-spacing' - pixels only?

Interesting! @Kevin: Good idea to check the specifications on this. My argument would be that, as type is such an important part of design in general, the specifications should be updated to be more specific on this subject and insist on a finer implementation of character-spacing. @Philippe: Nic

Re: [css-d] 'letter-spacing' - pixels only?

On 10/27/11 7:00 PM, ChrisIzatt wrote: Okay so - here's the thing; 'letter-spacing' only accepts values in pixel units - which is way too large a unit to modify letter-spacing in any useful manner. Chris. Letter-spacing if used at all for setting fonts on the Web is best reserved for headin

Re: [css-d] 'letter-spacing' - pixels only?

Interesting test. Anyway, I would think that there would be a gradient of string length between equally stepped letter-spacing values, so IMO it's a bug in Webkit/Presto. Kevin __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://

Re: [css-d] 'letter-spacing' - pixels only?

On Oct 28, 2011, at 8:24 AM, Kevin A. Cameron wrote: > Aha! Appears to be browser specific: > Gecko - Good! > Webkit - Bad! > Trident - Good! > Preso - Bad! > > http://www.kacevisual.com/files/letter-spacing/ > > My disdain for Webkit grows... Not so fast… I would argue that Gecko's result is

Re: [css-d] 'letter-spacing' - pixels only?

I don't think it's a bug, just a poorly defined spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/text.html#spacing-props "Character spacing algorithms are user agent-dependent." & "Values may be negative, but there may be implementation-specific limits." It's logged as a bug with Webkit, though 'unconfirmed': http

Re: [css-d] 'letter-spacing' - pixels only?

Nice find! But also ... how frustrating! So - do you know if there is a way to raise this as a bug to get it fixed in Webkit and Preso? Cheers! Chris. -- View this message in context: http://css.2040035.n2.nabble.com/letter-spacing-pixels-only-tp6938341p6938425.html Sent from the css-discuss ma

Re: [css-d] 'letter-spacing' - pixels only?

Aha! Appears to be browser specific: Gecko - Good! Webkit - Bad! Trident - Good! Preso - Bad! http://www.kacevisual.com/files/letter-spacing/ My disdain for Webkit grows... Kevin __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http

Re: [css-d] 'letter-spacing' - pixels only?

Nope - sorry that doesn't work. when setting the value of 'letter-spacing' using anything other than pixel units - the value is simply rounded to the nearest pixel equivalent. So - for example, I just tried setting the following values on "Arial": -0.01em = 0px -0.02em = 0px -0.03em = 0px -0.04em

Re: [css-d] 'letter-spacing' - pixels only?

I use em all the time, and by that I mean I only use em when letter-spacing. Just today I used: p {letter-spacing: -0.08em} Kevin __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List

[css-d] 'letter-spacing' - pixels only?

Okay so - here's the thing; 'letter-spacing' only accepts values in pixel units - which is way too large a unit to modify letter-spacing in any useful manner. I've read a fair amount of discussions on the topic - and it always ends with floods of so called 'experts' explaining how it's ridiculous

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On Fri, 4 Mar 2011, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: Here is how I see it, by the way : https://picasaweb.google.com/Chaa006/ScreenCaptures?authkey=Gv1sRgCPLV3Kvwm6zA5QE#5580238912279306258 Here's how it looks to me:

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

Charles Miller wrote: >> I did : I was just too shocked to comment, given that you had >> suggested it was overkerned. Remember, please, Goudy's aphorism. > Might that be: First do no harm.:-) > > I'll look earlier in the thread for the actual aphorism. > Look no further : A man who woul

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On 04/03/11 14:57, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: Here is how I see it, by the way : https://picasaweb.google.com/Chaa006/ScreenCaptures?authkey=Gv1sRgCPLV3Kvwm6zA5QE#5580238912279306258 ** P. __ For what it's wor

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On Mar 4, 2011, at 9:11 AM, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: > > So the problem would have been had you thought it was "windy." > > I did : I was just too shocked to comment, given that you had > suggested it was overkerned. Remember, please, Goudy's aphorism. Might that be: First do n

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

Charles Miller wrote: > > On Mar 4, 2011, at 8:55 AM, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: > >> But that shews no evidence at all of overtight letter fit >> (in my browser, at my preferred settings, at least). Can >> you send a screenshot of how it appears at your end, so >> we can see where

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On Mar 4, 2011, at 8:57 AM, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: > Here is how I see it, by the way : > > > https://picasaweb.google.com/Chaa006/ScreenCaptures?authkey=Gv1sRgCPLV3Kvwm6zA5QE#5580238912279306258 > > ** P. My fervent hope to get out of this house has been briefly thwart

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

Here is how I see it, by the way : https://picasaweb.google.com/Chaa006/ScreenCaptures?authkey=Gv1sRgCPLV3Kvwm6zA5QE#5580238912279306258 ** P. __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mail

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On Mar 4, 2011, at 8:55 AM, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: > But that shews no evidence at all of overtight letter fit > (in my browser, at my preferred settings, at least). Can > you send a screenshot of how it appears at your end, so > we can see where you are getting the feel that it

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

Charles Miller wrote: > > On Mar 4, 2011, at 8:24 AM, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: > >> Charles Miller wrote: >> >>> But the letterfit (there's that word again) of body text in the WordPress site I inherited and am reworking, is with no letter-spacing simply too tight. (I doubt that

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On Mar 4, 2011, at 8:24 AM, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: > Charles Miller wrote: > >> But the letterfit (there's that word again) of body text in the WordPress >> site I inherited and am reworking, is with no letter-spacing simply too >> tight. (I doubt that the font designer wanted

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

Charles Miller wrote: But the letterfit (there's that word again) of body text in the WordPress site I inherited and am reworking, is with no letter-spacing simply too tight. (I doubt that the font designer wanted it to look that way.) Could we see this site, so we can judge for ourselves

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On Mar 4, 2011, at 4:03 AM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: > In general, setting any kind of letter-spacing on body text is a poor idea - > and font designers do know their job, in general (yes, I know, there are > crappy fonts out there). That may be sound advice. And, thanks to you and others,

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On Mar 4, 2011, at 3:18 AM, Charles Miller wrote: >> Don't play at pretending to be a type designer. Do not letterspace text. >> body { >> /*letter-spacing:0.05em; delete */ >> } >> ~d > > I'll interpret that as saying that I would be pretending because the web > doesn't allow type design in a

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

Hi Jukka, > > You might want to use this: > > > > text-rendering: optimizeLegibility; > > That would be risky when letter-spacing is used. Browsers may apply > ligatures when you say text-rendering: optimizeLegibility. When a word > contains, say, "fi", these letters will then stick together,

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

John Daggett wrote: You might want to use this: text-rendering: optimizeLegibility; That would be risky when letter-spacing is used. Browsers may apply ligatures when you say text-rendering: optimizeLegibility. When a word contains, say, "fi", these letters will then stick together, as the

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

Barney Carroll wrote: > > …FF also does subpixel positioning while Safari snaps everything to > > pixel positions, as Philippe noted. > > Briefly, while we're on the subject, I might add that this difference of > policy of maths-to-the-pixel applies to a great number of things (not > just lette

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On 4 Mar 2011, at 01:54, John Daggett wrote: > …FF also does subpixel positioning while Safari > snaps everything to pixel positions, as Philippe noted. Briefly, while we're on the subject, I might add that this difference of policy of maths-to-the-pixel applies to a great number of things (no

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

Hi Rory, > It seems that the letter spacing results I am getting on Safari 5.0.3 on > the Mac are different from what I'm seeing on FF 3.6.14 on the Mac. The > FF spacing is the one I want; the letter spacing doesn't seem to be > getting applied in Safari, the spacing is too tight. There are a c

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On 2011/03/03 12:18 (GMT-0600) Charles Miller composed: I'll interpret that as saying that I would be pretending because the web doesn't allow type design in any meaningful sense. That's useful to hear. Not in any meaningful sense is wrong, but there are considerable limitations, not the least

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On Mar 3, 2011, at 11:27 AM, David Laakso wrote: > On 3/3/11 11:24 AM, Charles Miller wrote: >> >> http://abcaudiology.com (the home page only) specifies something like >> 0.65ems of letter-spacing. I might like a little less space, but since older >> viewers will be common it looks OK to me.

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On 3/3/11 11:24 AM, Charles Miller wrote: http://abcaudiology.com (the home page only) specifies something like 0.65ems of letter-spacing. I might like a little less space, but since older viewers will be common it looks OK to me. I recently inherited the site to redesign it. So criticism and

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On 3/3/11 6:58 AM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: On Mar 3, 2011, at 11:33 PM, Rory Bernstein wrote: It seems that the letter spacing results I am getting on Safari 5.0.3 on the Mac are different from what I'm seeing on FF 3.6.14 on the Mac. The FF spacing is the one I want; the letter spacing do

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On 2011/03/03 16:16 (GMT+0100) "G.Sørtun" composed: On 2011/03/03 09:50 (GMT-0500), Charles Miller wrote: My trial& errors suggest that increasing the letter spacing has no effect until it suddenly has a large effect. And, it seems that the "jump" point is different in different browsers.

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On Mar 3, 2011, at 9:16 AM, G.Sørtun wrote: > no-one has ever managed to control font-size or letter-spacing or anything > related to text reliable at pixel-level with HTML and CSS Thanks, Georg Clear. But just a trifle disappointing. :) My naiveté thought CSS could do anything! But I also re

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On 03.03.2011 15:50, Charles Miller wrote: My trial & errors suggest that increasing the letter spacing has no effect until it suddenly has a large effect. And, it seems that the "jump" point is different in different browsers. Too tight jumps to too loose. Start by blowing page-zoom in brows

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Rory Bernstein wrote: >> >> It seems that the letter spacing results I am getting on Safari 5.0.3 on the >> Mac are different from what I'm seeing on FF 3.6.14 on the Mac. The FF >> spacing is the one I want; the letter spacing doesn't seem to be getting >> ap

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Rory Bernstein wrote: > > It seems that the letter spacing results I am getting on Safari 5.0.3 on the > Mac are different from what I'm seeing on FF 3.6.14 on the Mac. The FF > spacing is the one I want; the letter spacing doesn't seem to be getting > applied in

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On Mar 3, 2011, at 11:33 PM, Rory Bernstein wrote: > It seems that the letter spacing results I am getting on Safari 5.0.3 on the > Mac are different from what I'm seeing on FF 3.6.14 on the Mac. The FF > spacing is the one I want; the letter spacing doesn't seem to be getting > applied in Saf

Re: [css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

On Mar 3, 2011, at 8:33 AM, Rory Bernstein wrote: > It seems that the letter spacing results I am getting on Safari 5.0.3 on the > Mac are different from what I'm seeing on FF 3.6.14 I see the same in my work, using the latest Firefox beta 4 on my Mac. My trial & errors suggest that increasin

[css-d] letter spacing difference (FF vs. Safari)

Good morning CSS devotees, It seems that the letter spacing results I am getting on Safari 5.0.3 on the Mac are different from what I'm seeing on FF 3.6.14 on the Mac. The FF spacing is the one I want; the letter spacing doesn't seem to be getting applied in Safari, the spacing is too tight.

Re: [css-d] letter-spacing

bho...@aol.com wrote: > Hi. letter-spacing seems to function in IE, but not in Safari, or Google > Chrome. Is this normal? > bhomis > > > p.general_text{ > font-size: .8em; > font-family: arial; > color: #33; > letter-spacing:.5px; > line-height: 145%; > text-align:left; > } > >

Re: [css-d] letter-spacing

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 11:17 AM, wrote: > Hi.  letter-spacing seems to function in IE, but not in Safari, or  Google > Chrome.  Is this normal? > letter-spacing:.5px; Since a pixel is, by definition, the smallest measurement possible on any given screen, how would a browser render a space less

[css-d] letter-spacing

Hi. letter-spacing seems to function in IE, but not in Safari, or Google Chrome. Is this normal? bhomis p.general_text{ font-size: .8em; font-family: arial; color: #33; letter-spacing:.5px; line-height: 145%; text-align:left; } text goes here. __

Re: [css-d] letter spacing

Ah... I see. To be honest my initial reply isn't much help in this circumstance. I have been in this position before (I was trying to make a small-caps style that wasn't just smaller capital glyphs in the same style)... I eventually gave up. As David just said in his reply, typography renderin

Re: [css-d] letter spacing

Irit Gazit wrote: > Small but annoying question: > > What is the minimum change I can make to letter spacing? > > If I write: > > Letter-spacing: 0.1em; > > No change is noted > > Only from 0.5em I can see a change. > > Thanks for an answer. > > My guess is it depends on the font, the font-size,

Re: [css-d] letter spacing

Hi Irit, As someone with little knowledge of typography, ems hit me hard when my present working team insisted I use them for almost everything... The issue is that certain em differences do not equate a pixel difference, at which point no difference will be seen. I'm sure that, if you increas

[css-d] letter spacing

Small but annoying question: What is the minimum change I can make to letter spacing? If I write: Letter-spacing: 0.1em; No change is noted Only from 0.5em I can see a change. Thanks for an answer. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROT