On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 01:53:24PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> The FHS and the guarantees it provides about what users can
> expect from their system is still important. If Debian thinks we need to
> diverge from the FHS on something as major as the existence of /sbin, that's
> a conversation w
Le Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:28:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery a écrit :
>
> Yes, we could file bugs and go to the work of moving things and leaving
> symlinks behind to not break other things, but that's a lot of work. And
> it's ongoing work to keep things sorted into the right place. Whereas if
> we
On 08/08/12 12:30, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 08/08/2012 06:21 PM, David Given wrote:
>> ifconfig (before this discussion I'd never even *heard* of ip)
>>
> This kind of remark make be say that probably, it'd be
> nice to have ifconfig display a warning as this one:
>
> "ifconfig is deprecated,
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Ritesh Raj Sarraf
* Package name: system-storage-manager
Version : 0.2
Upstream Author : Lukas Czerner
* URL : https://sourceforge.net/p/storagemanager/home/
* License : GPL-2+
Programming Lang: Python
Description
On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 22:21 +0200, Jarek Kamiński wrote:
> Na grupie linux.debian.devel napisałe(a)ś:
> >> There might be even more if you assume that you can co-install Linux an=
> > d
> >> kFreeBSD binaries (yay, multi-arch world!).
>
> > They might be co-installable but not executable (for the
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 01:53:24PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:22:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > Lars Wirzenius writes:
> > > On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:25:19AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > >> Also, FHS development seems to be effectively dead. We're already
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 05:48:35PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:28:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > Yes, we could file bugs and go to the work of moving things and leaving
> > symlinks behind to not break other things, but that's a lot of work. And
> > it's ongoing wor
On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 22:18, Harald Jenny wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:08:24PM +0200, Milan P. Stanic wrote:
> > On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 19:08, Harald Jenny wrote:
> > > On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:50PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > > > (Does anybody want to try removing net-tools and see w
On 2012-08-08 22:09:27 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> What would be the point, for example, to have these
> accessible to the user:
> - depmod/insmod/etc.
> - swapon/swapoff
> - agetty
> - init
> - etc.
One (perhaps minor) point would be to get basic documentation, e.g.
depmod --help
There is
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:22:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Lars Wirzenius writes:
> > On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:25:19AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> >> Also, FHS development seems to be effectively dead. We're already
> >> carrying a fairly large collection of exceptions. One more wouldn'
Na grupie linux.debian.devel napisałe(a)ś:
>> There might be even more if you assume that you can co-install Linux an=
> d
>> kFreeBSD binaries (yay, multi-arch world!).
> They might be co-installable but not executable (for the time being).
> The Linux emulation layer which is featured by kFreeBS
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:08:24PM +0200, Milan P. Stanic wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 19:08, Harald Jenny wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:50PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > > (Does anybody want to try removing net-tools and see what breaks?)
> > On my debian systems net-tools are remov
On Wed, 8 Aug 2012, Andrew Shadura wrote:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:44:25 +0200
Vincent Bernat wrote:
"arp" can be replaced by "ip neigh", "ifconfig" by "ip addr" or "ip
link", "route" by "ip route", "ipmaddr" by "ip maddr", "mii-tool" by
"ethtool", "netstat" by "ss", "nameif" by "ip link", "iptu
On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 19:08, Harald Jenny wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:50PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > (Does anybody want to try removing net-tools and see what breaks?)
> On my debian systems net-tools are removed, had to recompile openvpn
> with ip support and run openswan from expe
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 07:54:59PM +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:44:25 +0200
> Vincent Bernat wrote:
> > "arp" can be replaced by "ip neigh", "ifconfig" by "ip addr" or "ip
> > link", "route" by "ip route", "ipmaddr" by "ip maddr", "mii-tool" by
> > "ethtool", "netstat" by
Hi,
On 08.08.2012 17:53, Jakub Wilk wrote:
> ztest: zfsutils zutils
Hum, thanks for spotting that, but what to do here? Both packages
legitimately ship a ztest. Admittedly it is not very important for
zfsutils, don't know about zutils. Having that said, lots of upstream
tutorials and documentatio
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 07:54:59PM +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:44:25 +0200
> Vincent Bernat wrote:
>
> > "arp" can be replaced by "ip neigh", "ifconfig" by "ip addr" or "ip
> > link", "route" by "ip route", "ipmaddr" by "ip maddr", "mii-tool" by
> > "ethtool"
❦ 8 août 2012 19:54 CEST, Andrew Shadura :
>> "arp" can be replaced by "ip neigh", "ifconfig" by "ip addr" or "ip
>> link", "route" by "ip route", "ipmaddr" by "ip maddr", "mii-tool" by
>> "ethtool", "netstat" by "ss", "nameif" by "ip link", "iptunnel" by
>> "ip tunnel". "iproute" and "ethtool"
On 08/08/2012 10:10 PM, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
> Many things are trivial but I think it would be best to ship good defaults in
> Debian. And have all programs available for tab completion without the need to
> specify sudo in front is in my opinion a good default.
>
> There is also a question how to
Hello,
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:44:25 +0200
Vincent Bernat wrote:
> "arp" can be replaced by "ip neigh", "ifconfig" by "ip addr" or "ip
> link", "route" by "ip route", "ipmaddr" by "ip maddr", "mii-tool" by
> "ethtool", "netstat" by "ss", "nameif" by "ip link", "iptunnel" by
> "ip tunnel". "iprout
❦ 8 août 2012 12:21 CEST, David Given :
> ifconfig (before this discussion I'd never even *heard* of ip)
All what is inside "net-tools" package is old and hardly maintained.
"arp" can be replaced by "ip neigh", "ifconfig" by "ip addr" or "ip link",
"route" by
"ip route", "ipmaddr" by "ip mad
❦ 8 août 2012 16:56 CEST, "Andrej N. Gritsenko" :
>>Then, what do you use to list multiple IPs on a single interface?
>>ifconfig simply doesn't support it.
>
> In fact, I have multiple IPs on a single interface right now on the
> machine where I write this letter. And I never used 'ip' befo
❦ 8 août 2012 09:43 CEST, Bernd Zeimetz :
>> Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin, nor
>> /usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/ or
>> /usr/sbin
>> the full path must be specified.
>>
>
> Or the user just adds those directories to
❦ 8 août 2012 09:15 CEST, Michael Stummvoll :
>> Moving ifconfig to /bin would break a lot of things calling
>> `/sbin/ifconfig`.
>
> there could be a link for compatiblity
If we start symlinking, a symlink from /sbin to /bin seems easier. Once
we start a breach, we'll get more and more reques
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:50PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> (Does anybody want to try removing net-tools and see what breaks?)
On my debian systems net-tools are removed, had to recompile openvpn
with ip support and run openswan from experimental without any problems
since 4 months.
Kind rega
Lars Wirzenius writes:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:25:19AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Also, FHS development seems to be effectively dead. We're already
>> carrying a fairly large collection of exceptions. One more wouldn't
>> make a tremendous difference as long as there's no major user beh
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:25:19AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Also, FHS development seems to be effectively dead. We're already
> carrying a fairly large collection of exceptions. One more wouldn't make
> a tremendous difference as long as there's no major user behavior change,
> and the symlin
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:28:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Yes, we could file bugs and go to the work of moving things and leaving
> symlinks behind to not break other things, but that's a lot of work. And
> it's ongoing work to keep things sorted into the right place. Whereas if
> we moved
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 07:29:58PM +0300, Andrej N. Gritsenko wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Ben Hutchings has written on Wednesday, 8 August, at 16:24:
> >> >On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>
> >> >IMHO, if there's distros with ifconfig but not ip, then such distro
> >> >doesn't deserve
Thorsten Glaser writes:
> There’s also the “if I want to have a look at what commands on the
> system are used for administering, I can just ls /sbin /usr/sbin”
> thing.
Have you done this recently?
I seriously doubt anyone is going to read through those 416 programs (on
my system; counts will
Hello!
Ben Hutchings has written on Wednesday, 8 August, at 16:24:
>> >On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>> >IMHO, if there's distros with ifconfig but not ip, then such distro
>> >doesn't deserve much attention. The standard *is* ip, it's a much
>> >more powerful tool that does
Alberto Fuentes writes:
> I think the topic in here is good defaults for debian/"more common case"
> no if debian/users are able to handle such changes. :)
> I also add sbin to path as one the first steps after installation and i
> think is a good thing.
Yes, likewise here. I've had sbin in my
Lars Wirzenius writes:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:02:13AM +0200, Christian PERRIER wrote:
>> Isn't there something called FHS and which would be the thing to change
>> first? Or aren't we sticking to the FHS anyway or just don't care?
> If we keep /sbin as a symlink to /bin, and similarly for
* Dmitrijs Ledkovs , 2012-08-07, 22:47:
Does this include search across all components of standard $PATH
Yes, modulo bugs (see my other message in this thread).
and across all packages?
Yes, on i386 and amd64. If you check kfreebsd-* there's also this one:
ztest: zfsutils zutils
There mig
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 05:56:57PM +0300, Andrej N. Gritsenko wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Thomas Goirand has written on Wednesday, 8 August, at 22:01:
> >On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> >> And ip is not standard (not present on every Linux systems), whereas
> >> I don't know any syst
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 04:26:54PM +0200, Arno Töll wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 08.08.2012 16:01, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > IMHO, if there's distros with ifconfig but not ip, then such distro
> > doesn't deserve much attention. The standard *is* ip, it's a much
> > more powerful tool that does all you nee
> ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.1 up
> ifconfig eth0:0 192.168.0.2 up
> ifconfig
>
> It does not list addresses you added with ip without adding a
> sub-interface, however. With respect to visibility, one might wonder
> if doing that that is a good idea after all.
>
There are serval ways:
- Some users
Hello!
Thomas Goirand has written on Wednesday, 8 August, at 22:01:
>On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>> And ip is not standard (not present on every Linux systems), whereas
>> I don't know any system without ifconfig.
>Then, what do you use to list multiple IPs on a single int
Hello,
On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 12:40:42 +0100
Roger Leigh wrote:
> As a distribution we have to decide on a default, and that is ip.
> We took the effort to remove all use of ifconfig from ifupdown and
> other related tools for wheezy precisely to make it removable and
> optional, so that it can even
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:09:27PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 08/08/2012 09:20 PM, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
> > Not all programs in
> > the sbin directories require root privileges.
> >
>
> Then they have nothing to do in sbin. I'm serious:
> *please file a bug* !!! :)
I think you're confla
Hi,
On 08.08.2012 16:01, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> IMHO, if there's distros with ifconfig but not ip, then such distro
> doesn't deserve much attention. The standard *is* ip, it's a much
> more powerful tool that does all you need (you can't say the same
> thing with ifconfig).
If you do not use ip
On 2012-08-08 22:01:37 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > And ip is not standard (not present on every Linux systems), whereas
> > I don't know any system without ifconfig.
>
> Then, what do you use to list multiple IPs on a single interface?
> ifconf
On 08/08/12 15:38, Roger Leigh wrote:
> The number of times I've wished e.g. blkid was in my path is... zero.
What about iwconfig, ifconfig, route, modinfo, iw, fsck, mkfs.*, fsck, … It is
not
just about one tool or
There are for examples two symlinks for lsmod to /bin/kmod (/sbin/lsmod and
/bin
On 08/08/2012 09:20 PM, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
> Not all programs in
> the sbin directories require root privileges.
>
Then they have nothing to do in sbin. I'm serious:
*please file a bug* !!! :)
> It is about providing good defaults for users.
>
Agreed. Which is why you should file a bug s
On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> And ip is not standard (not present on every Linux systems), whereas
> I don't know any system without ifconfig.
>
Then, what do you use to list multiple IPs on a single interface?
ifconfig simply doesn't support it.
IMHO, if there's distros wit
On 2012-08-08 14:38:44 +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:
> "Normal" users do not need to know or care about these tools.
For some of them, they do. "Normal" users don't need most programs
installed in /usr/bin, so let's split this directory? :)
> Only admins use them, or tools that set things up on behal
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:32:30AM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Mittwoch, 8. August 2012, Michael Stummvoll wrote:
> > what exactly is the actually reason that a default normal user has ip in
> > his PATH but not ifconfig (also route)?
>
> hysteric raisins.
Funny expression :-)
> ("ip a" c
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 03:20:11PM +0200, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
> Not just ifconfig, there is also route, iwconfig, blkid etc. And moving them
> to other directories and add symlinks from sbin/$PROG to bin/$PROG is error
> prone.
"Normal" users do not need to know or care about these tools. Only
a
On 08/08/12 12:36, Adam Borowski wrote:
> Could you please tell me a single benefit from such a change? All I see are
> downsides. It would degrade tab completion and pollute the namespace.
Access to programs without the need to specify the full path. Not all programs
in
the sbin directories r
On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 12:22 +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Aug 08, Arno Töll wrote:
>
> > historic, rather. ifconfig and route were around already when everyone
> > insisted on the separation of /bin and /sbin. /bin/ip is slightly newer
> > and supposed to replace ifconfig/route some day entirel
On 2012-08-08 13:38:36 +0200, Alberto Fuentes wrote:
> [extra non usuful comments]
> Those commands without root permissions are not dangerous. ifconfig seems
> the most obvious that a non expert would want to run. ipconfig/ifconfig eth0
> are easy to run/remember.
>
> ip addr show eth0 is not. ip
On 08/08/2012 07:16 PM, Adam Borowski wrote:
> 121 packages, too many to even think about getting rid of ifconfig in the
> short term...
>
I agree. However, proposing to put ifconfig in a user accessible way,
when it is in fact the wrong tool, is going backward, not forward.
Thomas
--
To UNS
On 08/08/2012 08:07 PM, Andrej N. Gritsenko wrote:
> And BTW, ip command is harder to use and it rather should be in the
> category 'admin tool' than in the 'user tool'.
>
That's the 2nd time we have someone writing this in this thread.
However, ip is user accessible, while ifconfig isn't. So th
Hello!
Andrew Shadura has written on Wednesday, 8 August, at 13:30:
>On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:26:27 +0800
>Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> This kind of remark make be say that probably, it'd be
>> nice to have ifconfig display a warning as this one:
>> "ifconfig is deprecated, please use ip instead
Russ Allbery dixit:
>I don't see any point in doing this as opposed to just moving everything
>from sbin into bin and making sbin a symlink to bin.
Alone the pain to do so (and the complaints from traditionalists)
should be enough to not do that.
There’s also the “if I want to have a look at wha
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 01:30:54PM +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:26:27 +0800
> Thomas Goirand wrote:
>
> > This kind of remark make be say that probably, it'd be
> > nice to have ifconfig display a warning as this one:
>
> > "ifconfig is deprecated, please use ip instead"
On 08/08/2012 12:59 PM, Gergely Nagy wrote:
But, you know what those commands do, and I think we can agree, that
most - if not all - of them are quite close to being tools for the
admin, even if they don't necessarily require root. A 'regular' user on
a multi-user system will not likely need any
Hello,
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:26:27 +0800
Thomas Goirand wrote:
> This kind of remark make be say that probably, it'd be
> nice to have ifconfig display a warning as this one:
> "ifconfig is deprecated, please use ip instead"
It'd be terrible. Please don't even think of it, okay? Let people
de
On 08/08/2012 06:21 PM, David Given wrote:
> ifconfig (before this discussion I'd never even *heard* of ip)
>
This kind of remark make be say that probably, it'd be
nice to have ifconfig display a warning as this one:
"ifconfig is deprecated, please use ip instead"
Thomas
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On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:50PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Aug 08, Arno Töll wrote:
> > historic, rather. ifconfig and route were around already when everyone
> > insisted on the separation of /bin and /sbin. /bin/ip is slightly newer
> > and supposed to replace ifconfig/route some day ent
David Given writes:
> Thomas Goirand wrote:
> [...]
>> Exactly what do you need from sbin as a user?
>
> I use stuff from sbin as user all the time. A quick glance at /sbin
> shows these commands that I use on a regular basis:
>
> blkid
> fdisk
> all the fscks
> all the mkfss
> hdparm
> ifconfig
> Timo Juhani Lindfors writes:
> Ivan Shmakov writes:
>> Curiously enough, ifconfig(8) shows RX/TX byte counts, and, somehow,
>> I didn't manage to get a similar output from iproute. Any pointers?
>> TIA.
> $ ip -s link show lo
> 1: lo: mtu 16436 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN
>
Ivan Shmakov writes:
> Curiously enough, ifconfig(8) shows RX/TX byte counts, and,
> somehow, I didn't manage to get a similar output from iproute.
> Any pointers? TIA.
$ ip -s link show lo
1: lo: mtu 16436 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN
link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 0
> Marco d'Itri writes:
> On Aug 08, Arno Töll wrote:
>> ifconfig and route were around already when everyone insisted on the
>> separation of /bin and /sbin. /bin/ip is slightly newer and
>> supposed to replace ifconfig/route some day entirely.
> Just for the records, iproute entir
On 08/08/2012 12:14 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 08/08/2012 04:28 PM, Alberto Fuentes wrote:
On 08/08/2012 09:43 AM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
Experienced users should be able to do this easily. And those who don't
knwo what to do with the tools in */sbin/* probably don't want/need them
in $PATH.
Thomas Goirand wrote:
[...]
> Exactly what do you need from sbin as a user?
I use stuff from sbin as user all the time. A quick glance at /sbin
shows these commands that I use on a regular basis:
blkid
fdisk
all the fscks
all the mkfss
hdparm
ifconfig (before this discussion I'd never even *heard
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 03:16:59AM +0200, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
> Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin, nor
> /usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/ or
> /usr/sbin
> the full path must be specified.
>
> Changing the default PATH for n
On Aug 08, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Sure, certainly true. But, assuming that we have a consensus that the
> distinction no longer matters and just causes extra work (something that
> I'm inclined to agree with but that I don't think we can assume we've
> decided on yet), I hate to see us doing the
On Aug 08, Arno Töll wrote:
> historic, rather. ifconfig and route were around already when everyone
> insisted on the separation of /bin and /sbin. /bin/ip is slightly newer
> and supposed to replace ifconfig/route some day entirely.
Just for the records, iproute entirely replaced ifconfig/route
Hi,
On 08.08.2012 12:11, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> Start using the right tool for the job (I mean: "ip addr show"),
> and stop blaming Debian. Using ifconfig by the way will show
> you only part of the information (eg: if there's more than one
> IP assign, ifconfig will not show it).
ifconfig eth0
On 08/08/2012 04:28 PM, Alberto Fuentes wrote:
> On 08/08/2012 09:43 AM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
>> Experienced users should be able to do this easily. And those who don't
>> knwo what to do with the tools in */sbin/* probably don't want/need them
>> in $PATH.
>
>
> I think the topic in here is good d
Hi,
On 08.08.2012 10:32, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Mittwoch, 8. August 2012, Michael Stummvoll wrote:
>> what exactly is the actually reason that a default normal user has ip in
>> his PATH but not ifconfig (also route)?
>
> hysteric raisins.
historic, rather. ifconfig and route were around alr
On 08/08/2012 10:32 AM, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez wrote:
> I think this is a great idea :)
>
> You can't imagine how much I blame Debian each time I have to type the
> full path "/sbin/ifconfig" as a non-root user on virtual servers to just
> know the IP address the DHCP server assigned to the mac
On Mittwoch, 8. August 2012, Michael Stummvoll wrote:
> what exactly is the actually reason that a default normal user has ip in
> his PATH but not ifconfig (also route)?
hysteric raisins.
("ip a" convinced me to use ip instead of ifconfig: it's shorter to type.)
--
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On 08/08/2012 09:43 AM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
Experienced users should be able to do this easily. And those who don't
knwo what to do with the tools in */sbin/* probably don't want/need them
in $PATH.
I think the topic in here is good defaults for debian/"more common case"
no if debian/users a
On 08/08/2012 03:16 AM, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
> Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin, nor
> /usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/ or
> /usr/sbin
> the full path must be specified.
>
Or the user just adds those directories to $PATH in
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:02:13AM +0200, Christian PERRIER wrote:
> Isn't there something called FHS and which would be the thing to
> change first? Or aren't we sticking to the FHS anyway or just don't
> care?
If we keep /sbin as a symlink to /bin, and similarly for the other sbin
directories, w
Hi,
> Moving ifconfig to /bin would break a lot of things calling
> `/sbin/ifconfig`.
there could be a link for compatiblity
Kind Regards,
Michael
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❦ 8 août 2012 09:02 CEST, Christian PERRIER :
> I'm probably a bit old school here, but I think that the distinction
> between bin and sbin still makes sense. Maybe some binaries are
> misplaced (for instance, if ifconfig makes sense to be used as normal
> user, then it should be moved to /bin)
Quoting Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org):
> Sure, certainly true. But, assuming that we have a consensus that the
> distinction no longer matters and just causes extra work (something that
> I'm inclined to agree with but that I don't think we can assume we've
> decided on yet), I hate to see us do
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