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On Fri, May 09 2014, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Josh Triplett writes:
>> Russ Allbery wrote:
>
>>> I think we need some sort of critical debconf prompt here for the
>>> jessie release, similar to how we handled the change of /bin/sh to dash
>>> and how we handled th
On 2014-05-09, Steve Langasek wrote:
> I don't think systemd integration is in a state today that this is ready to
> become the default.
I don't think I have an opinion of the exact state today other than
'works for me in most cases', but I do think we are quite late in the
process for making it
Hi
On Fri, 09 May 2014, Josh Triplett wrote:
> debconf prompt on every Debian user; we should not assume that because
> *we* care, *they're* required to care. In practice, people will test
I strongly disagree with this opinion. From personal experience
I know several people who are not developer
Josh Triplett writes:
> Russ Allbery wrote:
>> I think we need some sort of critical debconf prompt here for the
>> jessie release, similar to how we handled the change of /bin/sh to dash
>> and how we handled the switch to startpar. Probably in systemd-sysv,
>> which is the package that forces
Russ Allbery wrote:
> The Wanderer writes:
> > There is a considerable difference, however, between automatically
> > installing the new version of a program (even if in a different package
> > for whatever reason) and automatically installing a completely different
> > program from the original,
Bas Wijnen writes:
> On Fri, May 09, 2014 at 10:37:03PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>> It and upstart (and any other providers of /sbin/init) should also grow
>> critical debconf warnings if you install them and you were previously
>> using systemd as your init so it's symmetric.
> Nobody is s
Am 09.05.2014 23:47, schrieb Philip Hands:
> Russ Allbery writes:
>
>> Cyril Brulebois writes:
>>> Michael Biebl (2014-05-09):
>>
I'm not opposed to adding such a debconf prompt, but if we add that
debconf prompt to systemd-sysv, we will get this even on new
installations. I don'
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Russ Allbery writes:
> Cyril Brulebois writes:
>> Michael Biebl (2014-05-09):
>
>>> I'm not opposed to adding such a debconf prompt, but if we add that
>>> debconf prompt to systemd-sysv, we will get this even on new
>>> installations. I don't think we want that.
>>> Or do you see a way how we
On Fri, May 09, 2014 at 10:37:03PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> It and upstart (and any other providers of /sbin/init) should also grow
> critical debconf warnings if you install them and you were previously using
> systemd as your init so it's symmetric.
Nobody is suggesting that systemd shoul
]] Russ Allbery
> Simon McVittie writes:
>
> > It might actually be nicer to move the real sysvinit binaries to a
> > non-conflicting location in sysvinit (or a new non-Essential
> > sysvinit-bin or something, if it's desirable to keep the Essential
> > sysvinit package as a metapackage dependi
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On Fri, May 09, 2014 at 10:56:43AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> The default hasn't changed; sysvinit still lists sysvinit-core as the first
> alternative for its pre-dependency on /sbin/init. What is forcing
> systemd-sysv onto users systems in advance of this change?
Also, if the order of depe
Steve Langasek wrote...
> I don't think systemd integration is in a state today that this is ready to
> become the default.
As long as packages like network-manager depends on systemd and that
dependency causes the init system to be changed accordingly, you can
expect the vast majority of desktop
Simon McVittie writes:
> It might actually be nicer to move the real sysvinit binaries to a
> non-conflicting location in sysvinit (or a new non-Essential
> sysvinit-bin or something, if it's desirable to keep the Essential
> sysvinit package as a metapackage depending on any supported pid 1
> im
Cyril Brulebois writes:
> Michael Biebl (2014-05-09):
>> I'm not opposed to adding such a debconf prompt, but if we add that
>> debconf prompt to systemd-sysv, we will get this even on new
>> installations. I don't think we want that.
>> Or do you see a way how we can add the debconf prompt with
On Fri, May 09, 2014 at 04:06:46PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> In my specific case, some *kit (policykit?) was “held back” by
> apt-get dist-upgrade, because it introduced a Depends on…
> > >> ii libpam-systemd:amd64 204-10
> … which I had prevented using systemd-must-die¹.
Am 09.05.2014 19:56, schrieb Steve Langasek:
> I don't think systemd integration is in a state today that this is ready to
> become the default.
What are you missing?
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previously on this list Simon McVittie contributed:
> That would let cautious systemd users keep the
> sysvinit binaries around, and boot with init=/usr/lib/sysvinit/init if
> something went horribly wrong with systemd.
Not that it would affect me but that would be wise, an upstream bug
caused ar
On Fri, May 09, 2014 at 02:32:07PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> ]] Svante Signell
> > On Thu, 2014-05-08 at 18:42 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > > Svante Signell writes:
> > > > I'm trying to install as little as possible of systemd stuff, and guess
> > > > what happens: When booting one of
On 9 May 2014 19:42, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Fri, 2014-05-09 at 19:04 +0200, Arturo Borrero Gonzalez wrote:
>> On 9 May 2014 18:22, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> >
>> > I think we need some sort of critical debconf prompt here for the jessie
>> > release, [...]
>>
>> I fully agree with this.
>
> bug
On Fri, 2014-05-09 at 19:04 +0200, Arturo Borrero Gonzalez wrote:
> On 9 May 2014 18:22, Russ Allbery wrote:
> >
> > I think we need some sort of critical debconf prompt here for the jessie
> > release, [...]
>
> I fully agree with this.
bug #747535
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Michael Biebl (2014-05-09):
> Am 09.05.2014 18:22, schrieb Russ Allbery:
> > I think we need some sort of critical debconf prompt here for the jessie
> > release, similar to how we handled the change of /bin/sh to dash and how
> > we handled the switch to startpar. Probably in systemd-sysv, which
On 09/05/14 17:22, Russ Allbery wrote:
> I think we need some sort of critical debconf prompt here for the jessie
> release, similar to how we handled the change of /bin/sh to dash and how
> we handled the switch to startpar. Probably in systemd-sysv, which is the
> package that forces the convers
Am 09.05.2014 18:22, schrieb Russ Allbery:
> I think we need some sort of critical debconf prompt here for the jessie
> release, similar to how we handled the change of /bin/sh to dash and how
> we handled the switch to startpar. Probably in systemd-sysv, which is the
> package that forces the con
On 9 May 2014 18:22, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
> I think we need some sort of critical debconf prompt here for the jessie
> release, [...]
I fully agree with this.
regards.
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The Wanderer writes:
> There is a considerable difference, however, between automatically
> installing the new version of a program (even if in a different package
> for whatever reason) and automatically installing a completely different
> program from the original, simply because both programs
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On 05/09/2014 11:04 AM, Neil Williams wrote:
> On Fri, 9 May 2014 16:06:46 +0200 Thorsten Glaser
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 9 May 2014, Andrew Shadura wrote:
>>
>>> Changes to the default init system should not affect existing
>>> setups.
>>
>> Stron
On Fri, 9 May 2014 16:06:46 +0200
Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> On Fri, 9 May 2014, Andrew Shadura wrote:
>
> > Changes to the default init system should not affect existing
> > setups.
>
> Strong ACK.
That only happens when the default is at the Debian Installer / tasksel
level.
e.g. a change of
Le jeudi, 8 mai 2014, 13.05:52 Ian Jackson a écrit :
> Unfortunately, Luis's mail domain is hosted at Hotmail which hates
> chiark:
Pot calling the kettle black: chiark hates a lot of servers out there
when it's "Irritated"…
OdyX
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]] Thorsten Glaser
> Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>
> >> Changes to the default init system should not affect existing setups.
> >
> >Were that true, it would be different to how we handle changes in other
> >defaults.
>
> A default is a default because it is only applies when the
> sysadmin defaults
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On 05/09/2014 09:48 AM, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> ]] Andrew Shadura
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> On 9 May 2014 14:32, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
Well, I've not been asked if I wanted to switch to systemd
based boot when upgrading. I think this is a bug
Hello,
On 9 May 2014 15:48, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>> Changes to the default init system should not affect existing setups.
> Were that true, it would be different to how we handle changes in other
> defaults.
No, it wouldn't. If exim4 is a default MTA, and then it changes to
something else, it
Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>> Changes to the default init system should not affect existing setups.
>
>Were that true, it would be different to how we handle changes in other
>defaults.
A default is a default because it is only applies when the
sysadmin defaults to it, when the sysadmin defaults maki
On Fri, 9 May 2014, Andrew Shadura wrote:
> On 9 May 2014 14:32, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> >> Well, I've not been asked if I wanted to switch to systemd based boot
> >> when upgrading. I think this is a bug in init system choice and should
> >> be reported.
ACK.
I noticed this because I have a p
]] Andrew Shadura
> Hello,
>
> On 9 May 2014 14:32, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> >> Well, I've not been asked if I wanted to switch to systemd based boot
> >> when upgrading. I think this is a bug in init system choice and should
> >> be reported.
>
> > The default has changed and you chose to acc
Hello,
On 9 May 2014 14:32, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>> Well, I've not been asked if I wanted to switch to systemd based boot
>> when upgrading. I think this is a bug in init system choice and should
>> be reported.
> The default has changed and you chose to accept the defaults when you
> upgraded
]] Svante Signell
> On Thu, 2014-05-08 at 18:42 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > Svante Signell writes:
> >
> > > I'm trying to install as little as possible of systemd stuff, and guess
> > > what happens: When booting one of the laptops boot starts with:
> > > systyemd-fsck
> >
> > > Is system
On 2014-05-09, Svante Signell wrote:
> Well, I've not been asked if I wanted to switch to systemd based boot
> when upgrading. I think this is a bug in init system choice and should
> be reported. How to go back to sysvinit?
I'd expect it to be a bug if I don't get migrated to systemd at some
upg
Hi,
On 05/09/2014 12:35, Svante Signell wrote:
> Well, I've not been asked if I wanted to switch to systemd based boot
> when upgrading. I think this is a bug in init system choice and should
> be reported. How to go back to sysvinit?
Please ask on one of the support mailing lists (CC'ed).
> Ins
On Thu, 2014-05-08 at 18:42 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Svante Signell writes:
>
> > I'm trying to install as little as possible of systemd stuff, and guess
> > what happens: When booting one of the laptops boot starts with:
> > systyemd-fsck
>
> > Is systemd taking over everything?? How to re
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On 8 May 2014 19:16, Frank Bauer wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Jessie currently contains linux 3.13, which includes the successor of
> iptables - nftables.
> Unfortunately, the userspace tools (nftables) are still missing even in
> sid/experimental.
>
As Vincent Bernat said, is in NEW. Has been in NEW for a m
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