Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-18 Thread Chris Lamb
Adrian Bunk wrote: > > Curious that you have that perception. I don't have hard data but I > > can immediately think of at least five folks. > > > > And that's not counting myself. > > GSoC or Outreachy? I don't really track in my head the origin outreach programme of these new friends of mine,

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-17 Thread Holger Levsen
On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 08:05:17PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote: > I am sure this all makes sense for people in the US, > but for a global project it is a WTF. not commenting on your main point (the above), but... > [2] See the "we know it could be used for 4 or 5 other developers > inside Europe

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-17 Thread Adrian Bunk
On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 03:04:12PM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote: > On 2019/04/17 13:08, Chris Lamb wrote: > >> How many percent of the paid GSoC and Outreachy student workers > >> continue unpaid afterwards and become a DM or DD? > >> > >> My impression is that GSoC does not have a high quota, > >>

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-17 Thread Birger Schacht
Hi, On 4/16/19 10:07 PM, Adrian Bunk wrote: > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 02:29:54PM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote: >> ... >> As far as I understand your summary it would be even >> "burning" a student if we would throw theses packaging task on a >> student in a GSoC / outreachy project (I'm aware that w

GSoC / Outreachy (Was: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging)

2019-04-17 Thread Andreas Tille
On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 11:07:34PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote: > How many percent of the paid GSoC and Outreachy student workers > continue unpaid afterwards and become a DM or DD? > > My impression is that GSoC does not have a high quota, > and Outreachy is a complete failure.[1] Two out of three

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-17 Thread Adrian Bunk
On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 01:38:22AM +, Mo Zhou wrote: > Hi Adrian, Hi Mo, > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 11:07:34PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote: >... > > The work Mo spent on the already-outdated tensorflow package in > > experimental was wasted if there is noone who continues maintaining it. > > And

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-17 Thread Jonathan Carter
Hi Chris On 2019/04/17 13:08, Chris Lamb wrote: >> How many percent of the paid GSoC and Outreachy student workers >> continue unpaid afterwards and become a DM or DD? >> >> My impression is that GSoC does not have a high quota, >> and Outreachy is a complete failure. > > Curious that you have th

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-17 Thread Ondřej Surý
> On 17 Apr 2019, at 13:58, Mo Zhou wrote: > > Hi Ondřej, > > On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 01:12:12PM +0200, Ondřej Surý wrote: >> The only single person I’ve been mentoring in GSoC did as little as >> possible to pass the half-time, cashed the money and stopped >> responding to emails. >> >> So,

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-17 Thread Mo Zhou
Hi Ondřej, On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 01:12:12PM +0200, Ondřej Surý wrote: > The only single person I’ve been mentoring in GSoC did as little as > possible to pass the half-time, cashed the money and stopped > responding to emails. > > So, experience might wildly vary... Sorry to hear that. It must

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-17 Thread Adrian Bunk
On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 07:08:53AM -0400, Chris Lamb wrote: > Adrian Bunk wrote: > > > How many percent of the paid GSoC and Outreachy student workers > > continue unpaid afterwards and become a DM or DD? > > > > My impression is that GSoC does not have a high quota, > > and Outreachy is a comple

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-17 Thread Ondřej Surý
The only single person I’ve been mentoring in GSoC did as little as possible to pass the half-time, cashed the money and stopped responding to emails. So, experience might wildly vary... Ondrej -- Ondřej Surý ond...@sury.org > On 17 Apr 2019, at 07:17, intrigeri wrote: > > Adrian Bunk: >> O

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-17 Thread Chris Lamb
Adrian Bunk wrote: > How many percent of the paid GSoC and Outreachy student workers > continue unpaid afterwards and become a DM or DD? > > My impression is that GSoC does not have a high quota, > and Outreachy is a complete failure. Curious that you have that perception. I don't have hard data

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-16 Thread intrigeri
Adrian Bunk: > Outreachy is a complete failure.[1] > […] > [1] If anyone has data to prove that I am wrong, please let me to know. I only have one single data point: the only person I've been an Outreachy mentor for is now an active, uploading DD. Cheers, -- intrigeri

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-16 Thread Mo Zhou
Hi Adrian, On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 11:07:34PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote: > > How many percent of the paid GSoC and Outreachy student workers > continue unpaid afterwards and become a DM or DD? It's not realistic to expect a student to continue any unpaid effort after the GSoC / Outreachy particip

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-16 Thread Roger Shimizu
Dear Mo, Thanks for your work! On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 11:53 PM Mo Zhou wrote: > > The student may also need access to a strong build machine. My Xeon > E5-2687v4 x1 [1] takes about 20 minutes to finish a build, while my > laptop (I5-7440HQ) takes ~90 minutes. Have you tried ccache? Interested

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-16 Thread Adrian Bunk
On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 02:29:54PM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote: >... > As far as I understand your summary it would be even > "burning" a student if we would throw theses packaging task on a > student in a GSoC / outreachy project (I'm aware that we are usually > not supporting packaging tasks in th

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-16 Thread Mo Zhou
Hi Andreas, On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 02:29:54PM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote: > Thanks a lot for the summary and all your previous work you've spent > into this. As far as I understand your summary it would be even > "burning" a student if we would throw theses packaging task on a > student in a GSo

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-16 Thread Samuel Thibault
Hello, Thanks for the feedback. In the accessibility team we had interest in https://github.com/mozilla/DeepSpeech but I got quickly afraid but the mention of "TensorFlow" in dependencies, it seems I was right in not taking time to have a look, unfortunately. Samuel

Re: Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-16 Thread Andreas Tille
Dear Mo, On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 11:12:44AM +, Mo Zhou wrote: > ... > This time I'm really giving up all related efforts [12], and shall never > touch them again. I don't feel pity, even if these points seem to be > tightly connected to some of my Debian activities. Apart from that, I'm > stil

Bits from /me: Difficulties in Deep Learning Framework Packaging

2019-04-16 Thread Mo Zhou
Hi people, This message is neither a good news, nor asking for help. I'm writing to share some of my points about Deep Learning Framework packaging, after a re-evaluation of the status of TensorFlow's latest build systems. My thoughts are concluded from failures instead of success. That said, they