Re: Debian menu system update

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 03:01:26PM -0500, Chris Cheney wrote: > As far as I can tell /etc/menu, /usr/lib/menu, and /usr/share/menu will go > away once we start using the desktop entry spec and /usr/share/applications > directory. Anything natively supporting the desktop spec won't have any > reas

Re: Debian menu system update

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 09:13:09PM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote: > On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 02:08:38PM -0500, Chris Cheney wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 08:39:02PM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote: > > > How do you expect menu to generate menus without an /etc/menu-method/ > > > directory ? Also au

Re: Debian menu system update

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 02:08:38PM -0500, Chris Cheney wrote: > On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 08:39:02PM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote: > > How do you expect menu to generate menus without an /etc/menu-method/ > > directory ? Also autogenerated menus should go in /var. > > Oops you are correct, for wind

Re: Debian menu system update

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 08:39:02PM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote: > How do you expect menu to generate menus without an /etc/menu-method/ > directory ? Also autogenerated menus should go in /var. Oops you are correct, for window managers that don't support the spec natively we still need that dire

Re: Debian menu system update

On Tue, 2003-06-03 at 06:24, Bill Allombert wrote: > On Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 11:08:00PM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > > > I have read it, and I have still difficulty to understand its > > > full implication. > > > > The implication is basically that we use it as the format of our menu > > database

Re: Debian menu system update

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 01:24:01PM -0500, Chris Cheney wrote: > On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 12:24:34PM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote: > > How GNOME and KDE will honor menu configuration in /etc/menu, > > /etc/menu-method/menu.h, ~/.menu and ~/.menu-method/menu.h with your > > scheme ? > > As I understan

Re: Debian menu system update

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 12:24:34PM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote: > On Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 11:08:00PM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > > > I have read it, and I have still difficulty to understand its > > > full implication. > > > > The implication is basically that we use it as the format of our menu

Re: Debian menu system update

On Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 11:08:00PM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > > I have read it, and I have still difficulty to understand its > > full implication. > > The implication is basically that we use it as the format of our menu > database (instead of /usr/lib/menu), and convert the menu-methods to >

Re: Debian menu system update

Em Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:23:55 +0200, "Bernhard R. Link" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escreveu: > > > Does this mean there simply is no such documentation? > > > > I think it's pretty clear how it should be done. Once we adopt the > > system, we can point system administrators to the relevant file in our >

Re: Debian menu system update

On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 06:23, Bernhard R. Link wrote: > > > Does this mean there simply is no such documentation? > > > > I think it's pretty clear how it should be done. Once we adopt the > > system, we can point system administrators to the relevant file in our > > documentation, and give pointe

Re: Debian menu system update

> > Does this mean there simply is no such documentation? > > I think it's pretty clear how it should be done. Once we adopt the > system, we can point system administrators to the relevant file in our > documentation, and give pointers to the file format. I think there should first be a documen

Re: Debian menu system update

On Monday 02 June 2003 04:22, Chris Cheney wrote: > This was done as a request by someone prior to my maintainence of KDE, > long ago KDE had its own separate Debian submenu as well. Many people > seem to think the way it is done currently is better than the separate > Debian sub-menu. Also, rippin

Re: Debian menu system update

On Monday 02 June 2003 04:06, Russell Coker wrote: > However if an icon looks good at 100dpi then surely when doubled it should > look just as good at 200gpi. One thing to consider as well is that while in the past X11 was the only windowing system available, there are a few others out there now.

Re: Debian menu system update

On Sun, 2003-06-01 at 15:58, Bill Allombert wrote: > I have already answered about i18n. If you're referring to extracting the i18n information from .desktop files; ok, that's a first step. But then we have an ugly situation where if someone wants to fix a Debian menu entry, they have to know t

Re: Debian menu system update

On Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:54, Chris Cheney wrote: > SVG icons are the only decent long term solution once screens go to > 200dpi+ those tiny icons will be worthless, of course you can always > double or triple the size of fixed size icons automatically but they > won't look very good. Microsoft is push

Re: Debian menu system update

On Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 04:34:55PM +0200, Bernhard R. Link wrote: > * Chris Cheney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030530 20:50]: > > > I think making things consistent needs us to write them on our own, > > > taking upstream entries as suggestions. In my eyes it is just the same > > > as with the directories

Re: Debian menu system update

On Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 08:59:58PM +0200, Josef Spillner wrote: > One day, SVG icons might be used, so there has to be some kind of flexibility. > It would be nice to work towards collaboration with freedesktop.org, probably > a fallback mechanism can be implemented. > I personally do not want to

Re: Debian menu system update

On Sun, 2003-06-01 at 14:02, Bernhard R. Link wrote: > * Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030601 19:05]: > > > Then please point to a documentation, how to overwrite the menus > > > installed with the packages as admin or other things like this. > > > > Basically you would edit the system .menu

Re: Debian menu system update

On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 06:54:46PM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > On Sat, 2003-05-31 at 17:52, Bill Allombert wrote: > > > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200305/msg02071.html > > > > Could you be so kind as to summarize thoses concerns ? > > The message above is fairly

Re: Debian menu system update

On Sunday 01 June 2003 20:02, Bernhard R. Link wrote: > It is related. Heck, this specification even gives in the example the > Icon as .png-file. While using .xpm-only for menus is really > long-lasting standard, with no reason to stop this... One day, SVG icons might be used, so there has to be

Re: Debian menu system update

* Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030601 19:05]: > > Then please point to a documentation, how to overwrite the menus > > installed with the packages as admin or other things like this. > > Basically you would edit the system .menu file, say > /etc/menus/applications.menu. > > http://www.freed

Re: Debian menu system update

On Sun, 2003-06-01 at 10:10, Bernhard R. Link wrote: > * Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030530 19:45]: > > What do you mean "consistent concept overall"? Using the freedesktop > > standards makes things more consistent, not less. > > Then please point to a documentation, how to overwrite the

Re: Debian menu system update

* Chris Cheney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030530 20:50]: > > I think making things consistent needs us to write them on our own, > > taking upstream entries as suggestions. In my eyes it is just the same > > as with the directories software is installed into. There are just too > > many ways to do it an

Re: Debian menu system update

* Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030530 19:45]: > What do you mean "consistent concept overall"? Using the freedesktop > standards makes things more consistent, not less. Then please point to a documentation, how to overwrite the menus installed with the packages as admin or other things like

Re: Debian menu system update

On Sat, 2003-05-31 at 17:52, Bill Allombert wrote: > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200305/msg02071.html > > Could you be so kind as to summarize thoses concerns ? The message above is fairly concise, I think. But I can basically sum it up as: I don't see the advanta

Re: Debian menu system update

On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 08:54:51AM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: > On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 12:42:23PM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote: > > > > What more do you want the Debian menu system to do ? > > Provide an example? I would like to see how you generate a fully > localized .desktop file containing

Re: Debian menu system update

On Fri, May 30, 2003 at 05:24:02PM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > Bill, some Debian developers have raised a number of concerns about the > continuing development of the Debian menu system. These concerns are > currently being discussed on the debian-devel mailing list, and we would > greatly appre

Re: Debian menu system update

Hi Chris, * Chris Cheney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-05-30 21:06:10]: > > 2) The current menu files use a "needs" field to designate whether the > > application uses console or X11 (e.g. needs="text"). In our .desktop > > files, this field will be named X-Menu-Needs and will only be required > > for

Re: Debian menu system update

Hi Colin, * Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-05-30 20:00:30]: > > 1) The sections that are normally used within the Category field in a > > .desktop > > file isn't the same as with menu. Here I have decided to make menu > > automatically convert a category into menus system. E.g. Category:

Re: Debian menu system update

On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 12:42:23PM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote: > On Wed, May 28, 2003 at 07:20:11PM -0500, Chris Cheney wrote: > > Is the Debian menu system going to convert to using the freedesktop > > menu spec? > > > > http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/menu/draft/menu-spec/menu-spec.html >

Re: Debian menu system update

On Fri, 2003-05-30 at 16:46, Josip Rodin wrote: > The (simple) responsibility of developers to contact other developers > whose packages they want to touch far outweighs the (harder) responsibility > of developers to track general discussion and/or news forums. This is > a de facto axiom of how De

Re: Debian menu system update

On Fri, May 30, 2003 at 01:29:57PM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > > I saw all that, but none of that constitutes contacting the menu maintainer! > > If our menu maintainer hasn't watched debian-devel (or more prominently, > read DWN) for the last 10 months, then something is seriously wrong. The (

Re: Debian menu system update

On Fri, 2003-05-30 at 15:00, Chris Cheney wrote: > What actual cases is this field used in? I don't think I recall seeing it > used before. Shouldn't the menu entry exist in the package it must have > installed (I suppose I could be missing something). The only use case I can think of is if you h

Re: Debian menu system update

On Fri, May 30, 2003 at 09:59:57AM +0200, Morten Brix Pedersen wrote: > In implementing it, I have encountered some issues which I would appreciate > input on. > > 1) The sections that are normally used within the Category field in a .desktop > file isn't the same as with menu. Here I have decided

Re: Debian menu system update

On Fri, May 30, 2003 at 11:19:44AM +0200, Bernhard R. Link wrote: > * Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030529 22:40]: > > Yes, it is our task to make it *consistent*. It shouldn't be our task > > to write menu entries from scratch, when upstreams can (and are) taking > > on the task. Our menu s

Re: Debian menu system update

On Fri, 2003-05-30 at 03:59, Morten Brix Pedersen wrote: > I'm working on implementing the desktop menu specification for the menu > package > (the C++ version, not the "new" debmenu). I hope to have the first version > available within the next month. Awesome! > 1) The sections that are normal

Re: Debian menu system update

On Fri, 2003-05-30 at 05:43, Josip Rodin wrote: > I saw all that, but none of that constitutes contacting the menu maintainer! If our menu maintainer hasn't watched debian-devel (or more prominently, read DWN) for the last 10 months, then something is seriously wrong. http://www.debian.org/News/

Re: Debian menu system update

On Fri, 2003-05-30 at 05:19, Bernhard R. Link wrote: > * Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030529 22:40]: > > Yes, it is our task to make it *consistent*. It shouldn't be our task > > to write menu entries from scratch, when upstreams can (and are) taking > > on the task. Our menu system should

Re: Debian menu system update

On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 06:32:22PM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > > It's very nice to see that the rest of the world has been kind enough > > not to tell anything about deploying this to our menu system maintainer. :P > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2002/debian-devel-200207/msg00815.html >

Re: Debian menu system update

On Fri, May 30, 2003 at 10:46:05AM +0200, Gerfried Fuchs wrote: > * Bill Allombert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-05-28 15:26]: > > - Icons are no more required to use 24 colors in cmap.xpm. See > > > > for explanations. >

Re: Debian menu system update

* Morten Brix Pedersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030530 11:07]: > 2) The current menu files use a "needs" field to designate whether the > application uses console or X11 (e.g. needs="text"). In our .desktop > files, this field will be named X-Menu-Needs and will only be required > for non-X11 applicati

Re: Debian menu system update

* Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030529 22:40]: > Yes, it is our task to make it *consistent*. It shouldn't be our task > to write menu entries from scratch, when upstreams can (and are) taking > on the task. Our menu system should accept .desktop files, and ideally > process them natively.

Re: Debian menu system update

* Bill Allombert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-05-28 15:26]: > - Icons are no more required to use 24 colors in cmap.xpm. See > > for explanations. I fail to see what this thread about "maybe say that programs that outp

Re: Debian menu system update

* Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-29-05 18:32:22]: > On Thu, 2003-05-29 at 16:22, Josip Rodin wrote: > > > It's very nice to see that the rest of the world has been kind enough > > not to tell anything about deploying this to our menu system maintainer. :P > > http://lists.debian.org/debia

Re: Debian menu system update

On Thu, 2003-05-29 at 16:22, Josip Rodin wrote: > It's very nice to see that the rest of the world has been kind enough > not to tell anything about deploying this to our menu system maintainer. :P http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2002/debian-devel-200207/msg00815.html (and the long thread it

Re: Debian menu system update

On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 04:16:38PM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > On Thu, 2003-05-29 at 14:12, Gunnar Wolf wrote: > > - Imagine, for example, a developer files his > > browser in Apps/Browsers instead of Apps/Net - What can we do about it? > > Um, patch it, just like we do for other upstream things

Re: Debian menu system update

On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 11:18:27AM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > > > Is the Debian menu system going to convert to using the freedesktop > > > menu spec? > > > > > > http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/menu/draft/menu-spec/menu-spec.html > > > > > > As far as I know both Gnome and KDE follow it

Re: Debian menu system update

On Thu, 2003-05-29 at 14:12, Gunnar Wolf wrote: > I am not too sure I want this... One of the great things about our menu > system is that it complies with a rather logical policy - menus are not > overly nested. That's an independent issue from switching to the .desktop format. The .desktop men

Re: Debian menu system update

On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 01:12:08PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: > I am not too sure I want this... One of the great things about our menu > system is that it complies with a rather logical policy - menus are not > overly nested. I don't know how is the .desktop format, but I understand > it is just th

Re: Debian menu system update

Gunnar Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a tapoté : > I am not too sure I want this... One of the great things about our menu > system is that it complies with a rather logical policy - menus are not > overly nested. I don't know how is the .desktop format, but I understand > it is just that - a format. I r

Re: Debian menu system update

Colin Walters dijo [Thu, May 29, 2003 at 11:18:27AM -0400]: > > I have read this standard again and again and I have trouble to > > see how far it is relevant to the Debian menu system: > > Primarily because the rest of the world has settled on the .desktop > format as the standard for menus. The

Re: Debian menu system update

On Thu, 2003-05-29 at 06:42, Bill Allombert wrote: > On Wed, May 28, 2003 at 07:20:11PM -0500, Chris Cheney wrote: > > Is the Debian menu system going to convert to using the freedesktop > > menu spec? > > > > http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/menu/draft/menu-spec/menu-spec.html > > > > As far

Re: Debian menu system update

On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 12:36:27AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: > Thanks a lot for your work on menu, this great software needed a > lifting. > > Le mer 28/05/2003 à 15:26, Bill Allombert a écrit : > > * i18n support is underway, see > >

Re: Debian menu system update

On Wed, May 28, 2003 at 07:20:11PM -0500, Chris Cheney wrote: > Is the Debian menu system going to convert to using the freedesktop > menu spec? > > http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/menu/draft/menu-spec/menu-spec.html > > As far as I know both Gnome and KDE follow it and possibly others. I h

Re: Debian menu system update

Is the Debian menu system going to convert to using the freedesktop menu spec? http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/menu/draft/menu-spec/menu-spec.html As far as I know both Gnome and KDE follow it and possibly others. Chris

Re: Debian menu system update

Thanks a lot for your work on menu, this great software needed a lifting. Le mer 28/05/2003 à 15:26, Bill Allombert a écrit : > * i18n support is underway, see > > how to activate it. Is it planned to get it in an automat

Re: Debian menu system update

On Wed, May 28, 2003 at 03:26:27PM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote: > - Icons are no more required to use 24 colors in cmap.xpm. See > > for explanations. I think this should be: http://lists.debian.org/debian-policy/