Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Tue, Oct 06, 2015 at 04:45:08PM +0300, Konstantin Khomoutov wrote: > A minor heads-up: your script incorrectly uses "tac" instead of "tsc". If anyone wants to put this into a package, please fix that. :) Would it be useful to have something like that script in a package? If so, which package?

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

Philip Hands writes: > For those wanting to check their systems, this may help: > > sed -ne '/^flags /{s/\b\(fpu\|tsc\|cx8\|cmov\)\b/%/g;s/[^%]*//g;s//i686 > SUPPORTED/p}' /proc/cpuinfo Oops - that's meant to be a TAB. Make that: sed -ne

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Tue, Oct 06, 2015 at 10:47:43AM +0200, Jakub Wilk wrote: > * Philip Hands , 2015-10-06, 09:35: > > sed -ne > > '/^flags\t/{s/\b\(fpu\|tsc\|cx8\|cmov\)\b/%/g;s/[^%]*//g;s//i686 > > SUPPORTED/p}' /proc/cpuinfo > > Or a more readable version: > > [ $(lscpu | grep ^Flags: |

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

* Philip Hands , 2015-10-06, 09:35: sed -ne '/^flags\t/{s/\b\(fpu\|tsc\|cx8\|cmov\)\b/%/g;s/[^%]*//g;s//i686 SUPPORTED/p}' /proc/cpuinfo Or a more readable version: [ $(lscpu | grep ^Flags: | grep -owE 'fpu|tsc|cx8|cmov' | wc -l) = 4 ] && echo i686 SUPPORTED -- Jakub

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

Ben Hutchings writes: > On Mon, 2015-10-05 at 20:43 +0200, Christoph Biedl wrote: >> Ben Hutchings wrote... >> >> > We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in >> > the current release cycle. This would include folding libc6-i686 into >> >

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

* Lars Wirzenius , 2015-10-06, 12:04: sed -ne '/^flags\t/{s/\b\(fpu\|tsc\|cx8\|cmov\)\b/%/g;s/[^%]*//g;s//i686 SUPPORTED/p}' /proc/cpuinfo Or a more readable version: [ $(lscpu | grep ^Flags: | grep -owE 'fpu|tsc|cx8|cmov' | wc -l) = 4 ] && echo i686 SUPPORTED Phil's

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 12:04:29 +0300 Lars Wirzenius wrote: > On Tue, Oct 06, 2015 at 10:47:43AM +0200, Jakub Wilk wrote: > > * Philip Hands , 2015-10-06, 09:35: > > > sed -ne '/^flags\t/{s/\b\(fpu\|tsc\|cx8\|cmov\)\b/%/g;s/[^% > > > ]*//g;s//i686 SUPPORTED/p}'

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 18:52:28 +0300 Lars Wirzenius wrote: > > A minor heads-up: your script incorrectly uses "tac" instead of > > "tsc". > > If anyone wants to put this into a package, please fix that. :) > > Would it be useful to have something like that script in a package? If >

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

Konstantin Khomoutov wrote... > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 18:52:28 +0300 > Lars Wirzenius wrote: > > > Would it be useful to have something like that script in a package? If > > so, which package? > > To me, this is something to probably put into the release notes for the > next release

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

Ben Hutchings wrote... > So far as I know the required feature flags are: fpu tsc cx8 cmov; > and the CPUs that have them are: Thanks for that. So for the records, VIA C3 Ezra and AMD-K6 lack cmov and therefore will fall out of support. I see no reason why there should be an exception for

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

Ben Hutchings wrote... > We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in > the current release cycle. This would include folding libc6-i686 into > libc6, changing the default target for gcc, and changing the 586 kernel > flavour to 686 (non-PAE). Could please provide

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Mon, 2015-10-05 at 20:43 +0200, Christoph Biedl wrote: > Ben Hutchings wrote... > > > We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in > > the current release cycle. This would include folding libc6-i686 into > > libc6, changing the default target for gcc, and changing

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

Hi, Ben Hutchings wrote: > We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in > the current release cycle. This would include folding libc6-i686 into > libc6, changing the default target for gcc, and changing the 586 kernel > flavour to 686 (non-PAE). Please don't. It

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

Hi, Matthias Klose wrote: > question to the Hurd and KFreeBSD maintainers ... change that on > these platforms too? I have a fanatical preference for compatibility over performance. So I prefer not to lose support for 586, but I don't know how practical it would be for libc maintainers to do

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

Söndag den 4:e october 2015, klockan 11:55, skrev Steven Chamberlain: > > I have a fanatical preference for compatibility over performance. So > I prefer not to lose support for 586, but I don't know how practical > it would be for libc maintainers to do that only for kfreebsd. > >

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Thu, 2015-10-01 at 19:15:54 +0200, Matthias Klose wrote: > question to the Hurd and KFreeBSD maintainers ... change that on these > platforms too? As it currently stands, this is not a question when it comes to dpkg, that specific change is all or nothing. The Debian ←→ GNU cpu mapping is

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Sun, 2015-10-04 at 15:03 +0200, Axel Beckert wrote: > Hi, > > Ben Hutchings wrote: > > We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in > > the current release cycle. This would include folding libc6-i686 into > > libc6, changing the default target for gcc, and changing

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

Dimitri John Ledkov wrote: > On 28 September 2015 at 22:44, Paul Wise wrote: > > Data point: I recently heard of at least one person who will need to > > buy new hardware as a result of this change. > Which hopefully is (a) cheap and (b) pay-off via electricity bill due > to

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Sat, 2015-10-03 at 22:06 +0100, Andrew Kanaber wrote: > Dimitri John Ledkov wrote: > > On 28 September 2015 at 22:44, Paul Wise wrote: > > > Data point: I recently heard of at least one person who will need to > > > buy new hardware as a result of this change. > > Which

Re: partial architectures -- was: Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

+++ Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo [2015-09-29 22:14 +0100]: > 2015-09-29 17:38 Wookey: > >+++ Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo [2015-09-29 12:27 +0100]: > >> > >>Maybe it would be a good idea to split the architectures, and have one > >>port for legacy-but-still-sold-or-useful i386 and move the

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

Hello, Matthias Klose, le Thu 01 Oct 2015 19:15:54 +0200, a écrit : > question to the Hurd and KFreeBSD maintainers ... change that on these > platforms too? I don't see a reason not to. i686 libc works fine on hurd-i386 at least. I haven't tried on kfreebsd. Samuel

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

question to the Hurd and KFreeBSD maintainers ... change that on these platforms too? On 28.09.2015 23:14, Ben Hutchings wrote: We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in the current release cycle. This would include folding libc6-i686 into libc6, changing the

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015, Iustin Pop wrote: > Anyway, what I mean to say: thanks for finally motivating me to upgrade. > This move definitely makes sense, but I wouldn't be so sure that there > are no actual production systems running on a 586-only CPU. As another data point, I have a customer which

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:52 AM, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > As another data point, I have a customer which uses Debian on Vortex86 > based CPU and they are actually selling small embedded computers based on > this CPU to various manufacturers (for production monitoring purpose). > > So there are

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

* Iustin Pop , 2015-09-30, 00:04: My trusty soekris 5501 has an AMD Geode LX, which (AFAIK) is still only i586. It seems it is missing one instruction (NOPL) from being a full 686 chip :) gas won't emit NOPLs for 686, so you should be safe:

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 09:31:03PM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote: > [Please CC me; not subscribed to -devel.] > Ben Hutchings wrote: > > So far as I know, all current Quark processors have errata that make > > them unstable, not to mention totally insecure, when running ordinary > > i386 binaries. >

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

Ben Hutchings wrote: Since the 686-class, introduced with the Pentium Pro, is now almost 20 years old, we believe there are few Debian systems still running that have 586-class or hybrid processors. The only such processors apparently still

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 06:48:26AM +, Riku Voipio wrote: > On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 09:31:03PM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote: > > [Please CC me; not subscribed to -devel.] > > Ben Hutchings wrote: > > > So far as I know, all current Quark processors have errata that make > > > them unstable, not

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

2015-09-28 23:34 Josh Triplett: Ben Hutchings wrote: We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in the current release cycle. This would include folding libc6-i686 into libc6, changing the default target for gcc, and changing the 586 kernel flavour to 686 (non-PAE).

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

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Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Tue, 2015-09-29 at 10:02 +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: > Ben Hutchings wrote: > Since the 686-class, introduced with the Pentium Pro, is now almost 20 > years old, we believe there are few Debian systems still running that > have 586-class or

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

Ben Hutchings wrote: Contrary to what I thought, the Xeon Phi processors are actually 64-bit . However I think they're a little too weird to support with the same binaries - no CMOV, no MMX and no SSE. I think we’ve both been mistaken by Intel

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

+++ Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo [2015-09-29 12:27 +0100]: > 2015-09-28 23:34 Josh Triplett: > >Many distributions have already dropped that support, making it all the > >more valuable that Debian hasn't. I can certainly understand dropping > >i386 and i486, but i586 remains useful today

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On 2015-09-28 22:14:44, Ben Hutchings wrote: > We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in > the current release cycle. This would include folding libc6-i686 into > libc6, changing the default target for gcc, and changing the 586 kernel > flavour to 686 (non-PAE). > >

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On 29 September 2015 at 17:24, Josselin Mouette wrote: > > As of Knights Landing, it is based on Airmont Atom cores which indeed support > x86_64. > Correct. -- Regards, Dimitri.

partial architectures -- was: Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

2015-09-29 17:38 Wookey: +++ Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo [2015-09-29 12:27 +0100]: Maybe it would be a good idea to split the architectures, and have one port for legacy-but-still-sold-or-useful i386 and move the current i386 to only support newer, common-use i686 hardware. It seems to me

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

[Please CC me; not subscribed to -devel.] Ben Hutchings wrote: > On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 15:34 -0700, Josh Triplett wrote: > > Ben Hutchings wrote: > > > We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in > > > the current release cycle. This would include folding libc6-i686

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote: > We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in > the current release cycle. This would include folding libc6-i686 into > libc6, changing the default target for gcc, and changing the 586 kernel > flavour to 686

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

Hello, On 28 September 2015 at 22:44, Paul Wise wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote: > > > We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in > > the current release cycle. This would include folding libc6-i686 into > > libc6,

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

Ben Hutchings wrote: > We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in > the current release cycle. This would include folding libc6-i686 into > libc6, changing the default target for gcc, and changing the 586 kernel > flavour to 686 (non-PAE). > > Since the 686-class,

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 15:34 -0700, Josh Triplett wrote: > Ben Hutchings wrote: > > We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in > > the current release cycle. This would include folding libc6-i686 into > > libc6, changing the default target for gcc, and changing the 586

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

On Sep 28, Ben Hutchings wrote: > We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in > the current release cycle. Yes please. > Indeed, the likely reasons for users to choose i386 over amd64 today > are to reduce memory consumption or to run i386

Re: Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

Am 28.09.2015 um 23:14 schrieb Ben Hutchings: > We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in > the current release cycle. This would include folding libc6-i686 into > libc6, changing the default target for gcc, and changing the 586 kernel > flavour to 686 (non-PAE). > >

Defaulting to i686 for the Debian i386 architecture

We propose to drop support for i386 processors older than 686-class in the current release cycle. This would include folding libc6-i686 into libc6, changing the default target for gcc, and changing the 586 kernel flavour to 686 (non-PAE). Since the 686-class, introduced with the Pentium Pro, is