Hello,
Christian Perrier wrote a blog about dpkg triggers[1], titled "triggers:
those great improvements Joe User will never see". He pointed out that
it's a kind of great(*2) feature that will be unnoticed by end users.
That's true, IMHO. The funny (and *angering*) thing is, those users who
a
Le Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 10:31:54AM +0200, Franklin PIAT a écrit :
> The funny (and *angering*) thing is, those users who
> actually notice triggers are likely to complain :
>
> "Why the Hell do you run those triggers, it wastes my time !"
> sid:~# time dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/manpage
On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 11:15:46AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> Le Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 10:31:54AM +0200, Franklin PIAT a écrit :
> > The funny (and *angering*) thing is, those users who
> > actually notice triggers are likely to complain :
> >
> > "Why the Hell do you run those triggers, it w
Adam Borowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 11:15:46AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> > Le Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 10:31:54AM +0200, Franklin PIAT a écrit :
> > > The funny (and *angering*) thing is, those users who
> > > actually notice triggers are likely to complain :
> >
Quoting Franklin PIAT ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> That's true, IMHO. The funny (and *angering*) thing is, those users who
> actually notice triggers are likely to complain :
>
> "Why the Hell do you run those triggers, it wastes my time !"
Are you basing this assumption on somethign really experienc
On Sat, June 28, 2008 15:12, Christian Perrier wrote:
> Quoting Franklin PIAT ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
>
>> That's true, IMHO. The funny (and *angering*) thing is, those users who
>> actually notice triggers are likely to complain :
>>
>> "Why the Hell do you run those triggers, it wastes my time !"
Franklin PIAT wrote:
> On Sat, June 28, 2008 15:12, Christian Perrier wrote:
>> Indeed, when I run an "apt dist-upgrade", I just launch the
>> command, look at the list of actions that are planned, hit "Y" to
>> confirm and just switch to another window and come back some hours
>> later.
>
> When
* Franklin PIAT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [080628 23:12]:
> > Indeed, when I run an "apt dist-upgrade", I just launch the
> > command, look at the list of actions that are planned, hit "Y" to
> > confirm and just switch to another window and come back some hours
> > later.
>
> When I run "apt-get install
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008, Christian Perrier wrote:
Are you basing this assumption on somethign really experienced?
It is even documented on debian-devel:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/06/msg00117.html
Indeed, when I run an "apt dist-upgrade", I just launch the
command, look at th
>> Maybe "Processing triggers" could be replaced by a 2-3 word summary of
>> what the trigger is really doing?
> What about "Processing delayed configuration"?
Well, I was originally thinking about someting specific for each
trigger, but your proposition is probably sufficient and simpler to
impl
Quoting Charles Plessy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> >> Maybe "Processing triggers" could be replaced by a 2-3 word summary of
> >> what the trigger is really doing?
>
> > What about "Processing delayed configuration"?
>
> Well, I was originally thinking about someting specific for each
> trigger, but y
On Mon, 2008-06-30 at 07:42 +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
> Quoting Charles Plessy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > >> Maybe "Processing triggers" could be replaced by a 2-3 word summary of
> > >> what the trigger is really doing?
> >
> > > What about "Processing delayed configuration"?
s/delayed/defer
Le 28 juin 08 à 04:15, Charles Plessy a écrit :
Le Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 10:31:54AM +0200, Franklin PIAT a écrit :
sid:~# time dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/manpages_3.00-1_all.deb
Selecting previously deselected package manpages.
(Reading database ... 26933 files and directories currently
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
> delayed from when? I think it is better to extend the message and be
> more verbose. I also think that some indication of *why* things were
> delayed would solve the problem.
I must admit i dont know how those triggers work, but I asume it is
"Remeberi
Le 30 juin 08 à 11:56, Bernd Eckenfels a écrit :
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
delayed from when? I think it is better to extend the message and be
more verbose. I also think that some indication of *why* things were
delayed would solve the problem.
I must admit i dont know how t
On Monday 30 June 2008 01:42, Christian Perrier wrote:
> Quoting Charles Plessy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > >> Maybe "Processing triggers" could be replaced by a 2-3 word summary of
> > >> what the trigger is really doing?
> > >
> > > What about "Processing delayed configuration"?
> >
> > Well, I was
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:27:55 +0200, Scott Kitterman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
[...]
From a "Joe User" perspective, I think delay rather misses the point.
The
reason for triggers is not to do stuff later, it's to consolidate
processing
so actions don't need to be done multiple times.
A
Tilo Schwarz wrote:
> Actually, as "Joe User" (me ;-) I'm wondering, why I get during an update
> of let's say 20 packages the triggers message for man-db and menu not
> once at the end, but several times every few packages. I thought, the
> idea is, to let the triggers to the work once during o
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Joey Hess wrote:
#473461
But this bug ends with a question:
What do you think?
/me as a completely uneducated apt / aptitude user thinks: Triggers have
done more harm than good. Please consider this as a stupid users opinion
but I would not mention this "feature" as
to, 2008-07-03 kello 08:24 +0200, Andreas Tille kirjoitti:
> /me as a completely uneducated apt / aptitude user thinks: Triggers have
> done more harm than good.
I haven't been following trigger adoption very much, so I'm ignorant:
what harm have triggers done?
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On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
to, 2008-07-03 kello 08:24 +0200, Andreas Tille kirjoitti:
/me as a completely uneducated apt / aptitude user thinks: Triggers have
done more harm than good.
I haven't been following trigger adoption very much, so I'm ignorant:
what harm have triggers
Andreas Tille dijo [Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 09:24:32AM +0200]:
> >I haven't been following trigger adoption very much, so I'm ignorant:
> >what harm have triggers done?
>
> It slows down apt-get / aptitude by calling update-menus / update-mandb
> for every package that drops a file into this director
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 10:31:54AM +0200, Franklin PIAT wrote:
> i.e We should be careful not to add lots of new triggers for doing new
> stuffs, that eventually makes the installation to take longer. We can
> still defer actions in the background by other means, like cron.
>
> I've included some
On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 08:24:45AM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Joey Hess wrote:
> >#473461
>
> But this bug ends with a question:
>
> What do you think?
I don't think there's any dispute about whether the change is a good
idea, only a question about when it should be up
On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 09:24:32AM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> >to, 2008-07-03 kello 08:24 +0200, Andreas Tille kirjoitti:
> >>/me as a completely uneducated apt / aptitude user thinks: Triggers have
> >>done more harm than good.
> >
> >I haven't been f
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
> No, this simply isn't a fair characterisation. It calls it at most once
> for every dpkg run. However, apt-get typically works like this:
>
> dpkg --unpack
> dpkg --configure
>
Isnt it easy for apt-get/aptitute/pkgmanagergui to set a flag
"--no-u
On Sat, 2008-07-12 at 18:17 +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 10:31:54AM +0200, Franklin PIAT wrote:
> > i.e We should be careful not to add lots of new triggers for doing new
> > stuffs, that eventually makes the installation to take longer. We can
> > still defer actions in the
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008, Colin Watson wrote:
Being completely uneducated is fine - we don't expect everyone to be
dpkg gurus! - but it's worth listening to people who *are* educated
before saying things like "triggers have done more harm than good".
Sure, that's why I issued this provocation to "t
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Andreas Tille wrote:
> Sure, that's why I issued this provocation to "trigger" something I
> could listen to. The only other information about triggers on this list
> was a flamewar which circled basically around formatting of dpkg code
> issues. Did I missed some announcemen
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
What about reading documentation instead of expecting that we feed you
everything?
I'm sorry if I tipped onto several peoples toes: Yes, I know how to
*seek* for the documentation about triggers but wasn't this thread about
"user experience" of Joey
This one time, at band camp, Andreas Tille said:
> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
>
> >What about reading documentation instead of expecting that we feed
> >you everything?
>
> My intention was to say that IMHO there is an urgent need to explain
> the new trigger feature to our users
Sorry for the delay in replying to this ...
Ben Finney writes ("Re: Dpkg triggers and user experience, aka "How do I
disable those triggers" side effect."):
> How about "Resuming deferred installation steps" or similar?
... but yes, I think this would be
Le Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 10:12:20PM +0100, Ian Jackson a écrit :
> Sorry for the delay in replying to this ...
>
> Ben Finney writes ("Re: Dpkg triggers and user experience, aka "How do I
> disable those triggers" side effect."):
> > How about "Resum
Charles Plessy wrote:
> Actually, it was suggested in this thread to simply not output anything
> at all. How about ?
>
I would like to know what is happening. Anybody who wants to disable
something they don't entirely understands gets what they deserve IMHO...
Brian May
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