Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-15 Thread Steve Langasek
On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 11:11:47PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > I do stand behind my words; here are, chastizing the GFDL for > not being free, standing on the verge of the rowing GNU > documentation out of Debian, and yet, we blithely, though the > instrumentation of an annual Debia

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Anthony Towns
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 05:38:10PM +, Colin Watson wrote: > On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 11:17:06PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 04:56:37PM +0100, Francesco Poli wrote: > > > It resembles describing charity as "investment with no return". > > Perhaps; though there are diff

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Brian Nelson
Rich Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Brian Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> Andreas Schuldei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> >>> * Rich Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-11-14 18:46:50]: Hold on - does this mean I will or won't be able to do apt-get install debconf6-doc >>

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Francesco Poli
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:17:06 +1000 Anthony Towns wrote: > > Well, it's not an inaccurate description (I think), but you would > > use such a definition only if you think that charity is a stupid > > thing to do... > > So, if I'm parsing you right, you're saying that a person (such as > myself) wo

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Rich Walker
Brian Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Andreas Schuldei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> * Rich Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-11-14 18:46:50]: >>> Hold on - does this mean I will or won't be able to do >>> apt-get install debconf6-doc >> >> you will, and most likely it will be 100% com

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Brian Nelson
Andreas Schuldei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > * Rich Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-11-14 18:46:50]: >> Hold on - does this mean I will or won't be able to do >> apt-get install debconf6-doc > > you will, and most likely it will be 100% complete. if someone > packages it. Uhhh, why would

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Andreas Schuldei
* Rich Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-11-14 18:46:50]: > Hold on - does this mean I will or won't be able to do > apt-get install debconf6-doc you will, and most likely it will be 100% complete. if someone packages it. signature.asc Description: Digital signature

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Rich Walker
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > The same benefit that accrue from freedom of software still > remain if that software bits represent a presentation; the > software/presentation can be modified to suit a particular need, and > redistributed, excepts can be used in other

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Colin Watson
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 11:17:06PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 04:56:37PM +0100, Francesco Poli wrote: > > It resembles describing charity as "investment with no return". > > Perhaps; though there are differences. Charity does have returns: both > emotionally/psychologica

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 15:04:51 +0100, Henning Makholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Scripsit David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> From reading the responses from Andreas, rather than people trying >> poorly to interpret him, it's pretty apparent that they'll be >> giving freely licensed talks a great

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:21:38 +1000, Anthony Towns said: > On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 06:59:41AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) writes: >> > On Nov 13, Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> I think the best reason to ask or require contributors

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Andrew Saunders
On 11/14/05, Henning Makholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I case you hadn't noticed, there was a major _difference_ in opionons > about how "software" was to be interpreted. The editorial > clarification in 2004-003 removed the confusion by avoiding the > ambiguous word "software" Unfortunately n

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Neil McGovern
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 03:04:51PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: > Scripsit David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > From reading the responses from Andreas, rather than people trying poorly > > to interpret him, it's pretty apparent that they'll be giving freely > > licensed talks a greater weight

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Anthony Towns > In case you hadn't noticed, for the Debian project's purposes software > is a synonym for computer programs; if it weren't the reversion of the > social contract would have had no effect on the "non-free documentation > in main" question. I case you hadn't noticed, there

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > From reading the responses from Andreas, rather than people trying poorly > to interpret him, it's pretty apparent that they'll be giving freely > licensed talks a greater weight than non-free ones. They're also going to > make it easy to choose a free

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Anthony Towns
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 06:59:41AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) writes: > > On Nov 13, Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I think the best reason to ask or require contributors to licenses > >> their papers in a DFSG form is so that Debian ca

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-14 Thread Anthony Towns
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 04:56:37PM +0100, Francesco Poli wrote: > On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:28:41 +1000 Anthony Towns wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 07:26:55PM +0100, Francesco Poli wrote: > > > I disagree with your calling "licensing in a DFSG-free manner" as > > > "giving up rights": this seems

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
Henning Makholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Scripsit Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> It seems to me that the papers at a Debian conference are almost all >> related to programs in Debian. > > You expect no contributions about release procedures, bug report > management, the NM proce

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Francesco Poli
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:28:41 +1000 Anthony Towns wrote: > On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 07:26:55PM +0100, Francesco Poli wrote: [...] > > I disagree with your calling "licensing in a DFSG-free manner" as > > "giving up rights": this seems to imply that releasing DFSG-free > > works is something wrong or

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread David Nusinow
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 10:13:31PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: > Scripsit David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> > Debconf requires non-exclusive publication rights to papers, > >> > presentations, and any additional handouts or audio/visual materials > >> > used in conjunction with the presen

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > Debconf requires non-exclusive publication rights to papers, >> > presentations, and any additional handouts or audio/visual materials >> > used in conjunction with the presentation. The authors have the >> > freedom to pick a DFSG-free license for t

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > It seems to me that the papers at a Debian conference are almost all > related to programs in Debian. You expect no contributions about release procedures, bug report management, the NM process, dealing with disappearing maintainers, models for c

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 14:15:20 -0500, David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Tue, Nov 08, 2005 at 12:28:07AM +0100, Francesco Poli wrote: >> On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:01:48 +0100 Andreas Schuldei wrote: >> >> > Fine Print Publication Rights >> > >> > Debconf requires non-exclusive publicati

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) writes: >> Personally, I'd like to read the papers. It's a shame that Debian >> can't distribute them to me. > Debian does not want, it's quite a different issue. Debian does not want what? To distribute them? Hogwash. I'd be happy to upload them. -- To U

Re: Licenses for DebConf6 [was: Re: DebConf6: Call For Papers]

2005-11-13 Thread David Nusinow
On Tue, Nov 08, 2005 at 12:28:07AM +0100, Francesco Poli wrote: > On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:01:48 +0100 Andreas Schuldei wrote: > > > Fine Print Publication Rights > > > > Debconf requires non-exclusive publication rights to papers, > > presentations, and any additional handouts or audio/visual m

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:52:05 +0100, Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Nov 13, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > Can you explain exactly how a CC copyleft-like license would have >> > been an obstacle? >> Because it is being incorporated in a larger work: My > So it looks

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Raul Miller
It seems to me that we have some responsibility for the licenses used on these presentations. It also seems to me that we should structure our approach to these licenses similarly to the way we approach other license issues. That is: we should encourage people to use a DFSG license, and we should

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Nov 13, Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It seems to me that the papers at a Debian conference are almost all > related to programs in Debian. This still does not generally make them documentation. > Personally, I'd like to read the papers. It's a shame that Debian > can't dis

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Nov 13, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Can you explain exactly how a CC copyleft-like license would have > > been an obstacle? > Because it is being incorporated in a larger work: My So it looks like you have issues with all licenses not compatible with the one you choo

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 16:21:46 +0100, Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Nov 13, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Case in point: Thanks to Colin Walter's liberal licensing of his >> Debian packaging talk, I was able to give my local Linux users >> group an excellent introduct

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) writes: > On Nov 13, Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Are you saying that Debian has too much documentation? What is the >> non-computer-program which we have "too much" of? > No, I am saying that debian has too many stuff which is not programs

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Nov 13, Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Are you saying that Debian has too much documentation? What is the > non-computer-program which we have "too much" of? No, I am saying that debian has too many stuff which is not programs nor their related documentation, like e-zines, bo

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) writes: > On Nov 13, Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I'm sorry, I was under the impression that every package in Debian was >> software. Are you confusing software and computer programs? > No, I just do not believe that this specious distincti

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Nov 13, Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm sorry, I was under the impression that every package in Debian was > software. Are you confusing software and computer programs? No, I just do not believe that this specious distinction is useful. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Des

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Nov 13, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Case in point: Thanks to Colin Walter's liberal licensing of > his Debian packaging talk, I was able to give my local Linux users > group an excellent introduction to Debian (with full attribution, of > course); a non-free license

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Our goal is to produce the best FREE operating system > possible; and a secondary goal is to convince people that when > information is free, all kinds of unintended collaboration occurs -- > which may not even have been envisaged by the o

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) writes: > On Nov 13, Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I think the best reason to ask or require contributors to licenses >> their papers in a DFSG form is so that Debian can distribute the >> papers as part of Debian. > I think this is an awfu

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 09:17:38 +0100, Andreas Schuldei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > at the last debconf in Helsinki there were people from outside > debian giving talks, too. Hopefully we will have input from outside > even in the future. Last time I looked, even our OS is full of contribut

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 13:43:07 +0100, Henning Makholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Scripsit Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> This is a conference for Debian development. By definition, Debian >> is 100%free. Am I mistaken in assuming that people contributing to >> Debian are already familiar

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 13:59:08 +0100, Andreas Schuldei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > * Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-11-12 20:42:39]: >> Well, a conference that is not affiliated with Debian, such a >> requirement is not tenable, that is true. But if such a conference >> uses the Debian

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:32:50 +1000, Anthony Towns said: > On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 11:24:04PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: >> >> Several distros include non-free software, as long as it's >> >> distributable. >> > Debian's one of them -- we just clearly separate out the non-free >> > stuff fro

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > This is a conference for Debian development. By definition, > Debian is 100%free. Am I mistaken in assuming that people > contributing to Debian are already familiar with the social contract, > and have decided to conform to it? You are m

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Andreas Schuldei
* Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-11-12 20:42:39]: > Well, a conference that is not affiliated with Debian, such a > requirement is not tenable, that is true. But if such a conference > uses the Debian trademark, we can indeed ask that our core values, > as enshrined in our so

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Nov 13, Anthony Towns wrote: > I'm not sure anyone thinks we couldn't /function/ without non-free, I used to think we could do well without it (or at least we could in a couple of years) because free software made non-free software unneeded, then I changed my opinion when source-less firmwares

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Nov 13, Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think the best reason to ask or require contributors to licenses > their papers in a DFSG form is so that Debian can distribute the > papers as part of Debian. I think this is an awful reason, considering that Debian already contains

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Nov 13, Anthony Towns wrote: > Implicit in both your responses is that neither of you have any actual > reason to do so, other than ideology -- there's nothing you actually seem > to be itching to do that warrants a different license to the one I used. I suppose that it's hard to find argument

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Nov 13, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I do stand behind my words; here are, chastizing the GFDL for > not being free, standing on the verge of the rowing GNU > documentation out of Debian, and yet, we blithely, though the > instrumentation of an annual Debian Develope

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-13 Thread Andreas Schuldei
* Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-11-12 23:40:57]: > On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:13:51 +1000, Anthony Towns > said: > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 10:21:08PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > > > But instead, what I'm led to wonder is if this is really standing up > > for our beliefs and

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-12 Thread Anthony Towns
On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 11:24:04PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > >> Several distros include non-free software, as long as it's > >> distributable. > > Debian's one of them -- we just clearly separate out the non-free > > stuff from the free stuff. > I am coming to the conclusion thst we

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-12 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:13:51 +1000, Anthony Towns said: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 10:21:08PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > But instead, what I'm led to wonder is if this is really standing up > for our beliefs and fighting the good fight, or actually just trying > to avoid those issues. Bec

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-12 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:28:41 +1000, Anthony Towns said: > On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 07:26:55PM +0100, Francesco Poli wrote: >> > Scripsit Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005, Anthony Towns wrote: >> > The conferences I usually publish at always demand an all-out >> > copy

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-12 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:36:36 +1000, Anthony Towns said: > On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 05:28:04PM +0100, Francesco Poli wrote: >> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 22:30:52 -0600 Manoj Srivastava wrote: >> > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:46:24 +1000, Anthony Towns >> > said: >> > > I don't believe I've seen anyone deba

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-12 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
I think the best reason to ask or require contributors to licenses their papers in a DFSG form is so that Debian can distribute the papers as part of Debian. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-12 Thread Anthony Towns
On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 05:28:04PM +0100, Francesco Poli wrote: > On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 22:30:52 -0600 Manoj Srivastava wrote: > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:46:24 +1000, Anthony Towns > > said: > > > I don't believe I've seen anyone debate my use of the (aiui) > > > non-DFSG-free CC ShareAlike/Attrib

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-12 Thread Anthony Towns
On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 07:26:55PM +0100, Francesco Poli wrote: > > Scripsit Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005, Anthony Towns wrote: > > The conferences I usually publish at always demand an all-out > > copyright _transfer_. However, in practice they will usually accept a

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-12 Thread Anthony Towns
On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 10:21:08PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > Because sometimes one feels the need to fight for what is > right? Even if people feel far more comfortable with just sweeping > stuff under the carpet, and not brought out in the open? You know, I was going to say somet

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-12 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 02:39:52 +0100, Henning Makholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Scripsit Francesco Poli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:45:35 +0100 Henning Makholm wrote: >>> The conferences I usually publish at always demand an all-out >>> copyright _transfer_. However, in practic

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-12 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Francesco Poli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:45:35 +0100 Henning Makholm wrote: >> The conferences I usually publish at always demand an all-out >> copyright _transfer_. However, in practice they will usually accept a >> non-exclusive license to print and distribute unmodif

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-12 Thread Francesco Poli
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:45:35 +0100 Henning Makholm wrote: > Scripsit Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005, Anthony Towns wrote: [...] > The conferences I usually publish at always demand an all-out > copyright _transfer_. However, in practice they will usually accept a > non-e

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-12 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 15:36:39 +0100, Andreas Schuldei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > do we limit personal freedom of speakers in favour of our own, when > we prescribe a license? debconf is about exchange of ideas (among > others). will we only permit ideas from people that already share > out vie

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-12 Thread Francesco Poli
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 22:30:52 -0600 Manoj Srivastava wrote: > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:46:24 +1000, Anthony Towns > said: [...] > > I don't believe I've seen anyone debate my use of the (aiui) > > non-DFSG-free CC ShareAlike/Attrib clause on my debbugs paper this > > year. I did it, last july on d

Re: Licenses for DebConf6 [was: Re: DebConf6: Call For Papers]

2005-11-12 Thread Andreas Schuldei
sorry for replying to this only today. i had been busy preparing for a talk i was giving yesterday at a conf. * Francesco Poli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-11-10 01:08:49]: > > given your knowledge level of how debconf intents to handle > > things and the way you escalate this issue gives me the ide

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-11 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:46:24 +1000, Anthony Towns said: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 08:00:55AM -0500, Glenn Maynard wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 03:26:58PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: >> > Why fight at all? If having a free license is so obviously >> > correct, why force people to do it? If

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-11 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 15:26:58 +1000, Anthony Towns said: > On Thu, Nov 10, 2005 at 07:49:36PM -0500, Glenn Maynard wrote: >> FYI, a possible response might be: "we care about freeness, but we >> pick our battle, and our battle is Debian main". I care about >> starving children, but I don't dona

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-11 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:26:52 +1000, Anthony Towns said: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 12:49:21AM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote: >> [If this poses a problem,[1] you always have the option of not >> presenting, or presenting your work in an informal session.] > *sigh* > Does this really have to devolv

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-11 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 10:46:24AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > Of course, within Debian DFSG-freeness isn't mandatory or enforced: you > can upload to non-free instead of main just by tweaking your control file. The response is predictable, but here it is anyway: non-free isn't within Debian; De

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-11 Thread Don Armstrong
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 12:49:21AM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote: > > It's not all that unusual for conferences to require that the material > > submitted for the conference be licensed in a specific manner; > > OTOH, conferences usually ask for the minima

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-11 Thread Anthony Towns
On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 08:00:55AM -0500, Glenn Maynard wrote: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 03:26:58PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > > Why fight at all? If having a free license is so obviously correct, why > > force people to do it? If some people are uncomfortable with it, why > > fight that? > Even

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-11 Thread Anthony Towns
On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 12:49:21AM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote: > It's not all that unusual for conferences to require that the material > submitted for the conference be licensed in a specific manner; OTOH, conferences usually ask for the minimal permission they actually need to do their job. >

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-11 Thread Francesco Poli
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 15:26:58 +1000 Anthony Towns wrote: > On Thu, Nov 10, 2005 at 07:49:36PM -0500, Glenn Maynard wrote: > > FYI, a possible response might be: "we care about freeness, but we > > pick our battle, and our battle is Debian main". I care about > > starving children, but I don't dona

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-11 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 03:26:58PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > Why fight at all? If having a free license is so obviously correct, why > force people to do it? If some people are uncomfortable with it, why > fight that? Even within Debian, it's become clear to me that, if we want DFSG-free thing

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-11 Thread Don Armstrong
It's not all that unusual for conferences to require that the material submitted for the conference be licensed in a specific manner; if you plan on presenting, some DFSG free license of the material you present should be expected so portions of the work can be utilized in main or otherwise distrib

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-10 Thread Anthony Towns
On Thu, Nov 10, 2005 at 07:49:36PM -0500, Glenn Maynard wrote: > FYI, a possible response might be: "we care about freeness, but we pick > our battle, and our battle is Debian main". I care about starving children, > but I don't donate the majority of every check to feed them: there are lots > of

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-10 Thread Glenn Maynard
(FWIW, this is probably more of a d-project thing; d-legal is more about figuring out whether licenses are free and safe.) On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 12:24:58AM +0100, Francesco Poli wrote: > > DebConf papers will not be distributed in main. Why not (and "says who")? If they're worth anything at al

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-10 Thread Francesco Poli
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:25:11 +0100 Henning Makholm wrote: > Scripsit Francesco Poli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > That's why I consider this issue as an important one: every DebConf > > is an event through which we get public attention and can thus > > spread our philosophy. The message really works

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-10 Thread Francesco Poli
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 13:02:22 +0100 Henning Makholm wrote: > [I tried to crosspost this between -legal and -devel, but apparently > it never arrived on -legal. Resending...] Thanks. > > Scripsit Francesco Poli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Don't you agree that seeing non-free or even undistributable

Re: Licenses for DebConf6 [was: Re: DebConf6: Call For Papers]

2005-11-09 Thread Francesco Poli
[replying to a message that was directed to debian-devel only, but readding debian-legal in Cc:] On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:38:07 +0100 Andreas Schuldei wrote: > * Francesco Poli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-11-08 00:28:07]: > > "The authors have the freedom to pick a DFSG-free license" means > > that th

Re: Licenses for DebConf6

2005-11-08 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Francesco Poli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Don't you agree that seeing non-free or even undistributable (no license > means "All Rights Reserved", with current laws!) papers at a DebConf is > really a shame? I don't. Remember that non-free != evil, and that some of the arguments why free soft

Re: Licenses for DebConf6 [was: Re: DebConf6: Call For Papers]

2005-11-08 Thread Andreas Schuldei
* Francesco Poli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-11-08 00:28:07]: > "The authors have the freedom to pick a DFSG-free license" means that > they *may* do so, but are not required to. Am I correct? > > IMHO, DebConf paper authors should be *required* to publish in a > DFSG-free manner, as a condition for

Re: OT: Humor: Re: Licenses for DebConf6 [was: Re: DebConf6: Call For Papers]

2005-11-07 Thread Brian M. Carlson
On Tuesday 08 November 2005 01:58 am, Adam Heath wrote: > On Tue, 8 Nov 2005, Brian M. Carlson wrote: > > The way I read it was that "the authors may pick any license, so long as > > it's DFSG-free". Do you see how it could be read that way? > > You sound just like Henry Ford. My goal was to do e

OT: Humor: Re: Licenses for DebConf6 [was: Re: DebConf6: Call For Papers]

2005-11-07 Thread Adam Heath
On Tue, 8 Nov 2005, Brian M. Carlson wrote: > The way I read it was that "the authors may pick any license, so long as it's > DFSG-free". Do you see how it could be read that way? You sound just like Henry Ford. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Tr

Re: Licenses for DebConf6 [was: Re: DebConf6: Call For Papers]

2005-11-07 Thread Brian M. Carlson
On Monday 07 November 2005 11:28 pm, Francesco Poli wrote: > [Added Cc: debian-legal, because the topic may be of interest there, > I would say.] > [No need to Cc: me, as long as you keep Cc:ing debian-legal (just to > make things clear: I am subscribed to debian-legal, but not to > debian-devel)]

Licenses for DebConf6 [was: Re: DebConf6: Call For Papers]

2005-11-07 Thread Francesco Poli
[Added Cc: debian-legal, because the topic may be of interest there, I would say.] [No need to Cc: me, as long as you keep Cc:ing debian-legal (just to make things clear: I am subscribed to debian-legal, but not to debian-devel)] On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:01:48 +0100 Andreas Schuldei wrote: > F