On Wed, Jul 02, 2014 at 12:04:46AM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
I don't think so. I think it encourages to be more easy going, and have
fun, but never mind. Let's keep Debian boring^W^Wportland weird. :)
Would you feel the same if someone were to, say, upload a
hurd-must-die package?
Kind
On Thu, Jul 03, 2014 at 05:01:13PM +0200, David Weinehall wrote:
On Wed, Jul 02, 2014 at 12:04:46AM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
I don't think so. I think it encourages to be more easy going, and have
fun, but never mind. Let's keep Debian boring^W^Wportland weird. :)
Would you feel the
On Lu, 30 iun 14, 01:56:20, Thomas Goirand wrote:
You're not seriously suggesting dpkg would sneak a package on your
system behind your back, do you?
I believe he's only suggesting that having a package installed with a
Conflict: is harder to break (even by mistake) than just some apt
Hi,
Clint Adams:
If you're going for non-boring entertainment value, have you
considered i-am-a-kneejerk-idiot-[...]
Please adhere to the Code of Conduct.
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On Wed, Jul 02, 2014 at 01:10:51AM +, Clint Adams wrote:
On Wed, Jul 02, 2014 at 01:53:06AM +0100, Wookey wrote:
But OK. I get it - this is still too contentious to have any room for
this sort of foolishness and if it's to exist at all it'll have to be
called something boring. That's a
On Wed, Jul 02, 2014 at 01:53:06AM +0100, Wookey wrote:
But OK. I get it - this is still too contentious to have any room for
this sort of foolishness and if it's to exist at all it'll have to be
called something boring. That's a little sad, but we'll all
survive. This isn't supposed to be a
Hi Matthias (2014.06.26_08:38:09_+0200)
Of these, roughly 20% have switched to systemd. And they apparently did not
and do not have any problem with it, otherwise we'd hear about it. Here and
other places. Quite loudly.
Not necessarily.
My laptop won't boot with systemd, although other
On Tue, Jul 1, 2014, at 08:15, Stefano Rivera wrote:
Hi Matthias (2014.06.26_08:38:09_+0200)
Of these, roughly 20% have switched to systemd. And they apparently did not
and do not have any problem with it, otherwise we'd hear about it. Here and
other places. Quite loudly.
Not
On Tue, 2014-07-01 at 13:01, Ondřej Surý wrote:
On Tue, Jul 1, 2014, at 08:15, Stefano Rivera wrote:
Hi Matthias (2014.06.26_08:38:09_+0200)
Of these, roughly 20% have switched to systemd. And they apparently did
not
and do not have any problem with it, otherwise we'd hear about it.
On 06/30/2014 05:43 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:27:49AM +0100, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:42:09AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
]] Thomas Goirand
+1 for keeping the name which is funny
What's funny about an OS stating publicly that a
On Wed, 02 Jul 2014, Thomas Goirand wrote:
I don't think so. I think it encourages to be more easy going, and have
fun, but never mind. Let's keep Debian boring^W^Wportland weird. :)
+1
Fun is missing, humour even more.
Norbert
+1 :)
On Jul 1, 2014 6:39 PM, Norbert Preining prein...@logic.at wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jul 2014, Thomas Goirand wrote:
I don't think so. I think it encourages to be more easy going, and have
fun, but never mind. Let's keep Debian boring^W^Wportland weird. :)
+1
Fun is missing, humour even
+++ Stefano Zacchiroli [2014-06-30 11:43 +0200]:
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:27:49AM +0100, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:42:09AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
]] Thomas Goirand
+1 for keeping the name which is funny
What's funny about an OS stating publicly that a
On Wed, Jul 02, 2014 at 01:53:06AM +0100, Wookey wrote:
But OK. I get it - this is still too contentious to have any room for
this sort of foolishness and if it's to exist at all it'll have to be
called something boring. That's a little sad, but we'll all
survive. This isn't supposed to be a
On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Wookey woo...@wookware.org wrote:
+++ Stefano Zacchiroli [2014-06-30 11:43 +0200]:
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:27:49AM +0100, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:42:09AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
]] Thomas Goirand
+1 for keeping the name
]] Thomas Goirand
+1 for keeping the name which is funny
No, it's not. It's offensive to those of us who spend time on making
systemd integration in Debian be as good as possible.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
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On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:42:09AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
]] Thomas Goirand
+1 for keeping the name which is funny
No, it's not. It's offensive to those of us who spend time on making
systemd integration in Debian be as good as possible.
It's also offensive to those who think
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:27:49AM +0100, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:42:09AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
]] Thomas Goirand
+1 for keeping the name which is funny
What's funny about an OS stating publicly that a specific piece of Free
software---shipped and installed
On Sb, 28 iun 14, 21:42:47, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
Andrei POPESCU dixit:
Yes, I know everything in Debian is a package, but APT *is* the master
of all packages :p
Wrong:
• dpkg (directly or via dselect) does not use APT’s system
(well, not necessarily, anyway)
You're not seriously
On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 10:01:00 +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
… We have decided to use systemd as the default. …
s/We have/The tech-ctte has/.
Regards,
Guillem
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Hi,
Guillem Jover:
On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 10:01:00 +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
… We have decided to use systemd as the default. …
s/We have/The tech-ctte has/.
… and everybody else decided to not challenge their resolution,
at the very least. Anti-systemd(-author) rants nonwithstanding.
On 06/29/2014 05:21 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Sb, 28 iun 14, 21:42:47, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
Andrei POPESCU dixit:
Yes, I know everything in Debian is a package, but APT *is* the master
of all packages :p
Wrong:
• dpkg (directly or via dselect) does not use APT’s system
(well, not
On Jo, 26 iun 14, 14:33:49, Wookey wrote:
Can it be uploaded please? As has been observed, there is a reasonable
number of people who would like an easy way to control explicitly
when/if they change to systemd for pid 1. Having to get it from a
separate repo should not be necessary.
No need
On Sat, 2014-06-28 at 09:50 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Jo, 26 iun 14, 14:33:49, Wookey wrote:
Can it be uploaded please? As has been observed, there is a reasonable
number of people who would like an easy way to control explicitly
when/if they change to systemd for pid 1. Having to
❦ 28 juin 2014 10:56 +0200, Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com :
systemd-must-die_8_all.deb already conflicts with nine packages:
Conflicts: libpam-systemd, live-config-systemd, python-systemd, systemd,
systemd-cron, systemd-gui, systemd-shim, systemd-sysv, systemd-ui
Why systemd-shim?
On Sb, 28 iun 14, 10:56:24, Svante Signell wrote:
The disadvantage with this approach is that you need an entry for every
package you don't want installed.
No, you want to make use of the support for globs or regexes, see
apt_preferences(5).
systemd-must-die_8_all.deb already conflicts
Le vendredi, 27 juin 2014, 23.02:51 Thomas Goirand a écrit :
On 06/27/2014 06:31 PM, Michael Englehorn wrote:
Wouldn't glibc then fall into the list of things you don't like as a
required framework? By that logic, all libraries must be
hot-swappable with no additional effort by the
Le samedi 28 juin 2014 à 11:08 +0200, Vincent Bernat a écrit :
Why systemd-shim?
Do you really need to ask why?
There’s systemd in the name, therefore it must be *evil*, man. It has to
be part of a conspiracy to take over the world and remove our freedom to
make all executables setuid root!
--
❦ 28 juin 2014 12:19 +0200, Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org :
Why systemd-shim?
Do you really need to ask why?
There’s systemd in the name, therefore it must be *evil*, man. It has to
be part of a conspiracy to take over the world and remove our freedom to
make all executables setuid
Andrei POPESCU dixit:
Yes, I know everything in Debian is a package, but APT *is* the master
of all packages :p
Wrong:
• dpkg (directly or via dselect) does not use APT’s system
(well, not necessarily, anyway)
• aptitude has been known to ignore the view dpkg/apt have
on the system, e.g.
Le jeudi 26 juin 2014 à 15:58 +0100, Alastair McKinstry a écrit :
On 26/06/2014 15:33, Marco d'Itri wrote:
A few people said this about udev as well. Now they use udev.
... and complain or suffer in silence. Don't take popcon as a measure
of people being happy to use a critical dependency
Russ Allbery wrote:
Thorsten Glaser t...@debian.org writes:
Yes, I fully agree. But _please_ also realise that there are people,
a non-neglibile number of them, for whom these frameworks are not an
improvement, and who wish to be not forced to use them.
That's fine for you to feel that way,
On 26/06/2014 17:43, Paul Wise wrote:
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 10:58 PM, Alastair McKinstry wrote:
udev itself is disabled in scripts as it keeps crashing
on my hardware. (Old powerpc server).
Which bug number is this?
This is a bug that I _think_ (following the lists) has since been fixed
On 2014-06-27, Thorsten Glaser t...@debian.org wrote:
But this is precisely why we're in an OSS movement here.
We can change this, and we should, so that the other
solutions do *not* die out. We should *not* accept the
might of the others all do this!
The way is to put your time/money where
Before this part of the thread dies out, can anybody comment on this,
Simon, Ansgar, Jean-Christophe, ...?
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 16:32 +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 13:53 +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
On 26/06/14 13:33, Svante Signell wrote:
Of course with the additional
On 6/27/2014 3:59 AM, Alastair McKinstry wrote:
On 26/06/2014 17:43, Paul Wise wrote:
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 10:58 PM, Alastair McKinstry wrote:
udev itself is disabled in scripts as it keeps crashing
on my hardware. (Old powerpc server).
Which bug number is this?
This is a bug that I
Sune Vuorela wrote:
The way is to put your time/money where your mouth is and provide the
code. Asking others to do all the work is not the way forward in OSS.
I highly doubt you can call _me_ someone who does not do work in OSS.
You know, methods to clone a human being, time turners, etc. have
+++ Marco d'Itri [2014-06-26 16:29 +0200]:
On Jun 26, Wookey woo...@wookware.org wrote:
Can it be uploaded please? As has been observed, there is a reasonable
number of people who would like an easy way to control explicitly
when/if they change to systemd for pid 1. Having to get it from
My fear is that systemd + friends are becoming a required framework,
subverting the Unix
ethos of a bunch of co-operating tools and libraries. It becomes
increasing impossible to
simply replace a component I might disagree with, or that breaks my use
case, with one I develop
because of all the
On 27/06/14 10:53, Svante Signell wrote:
Before this part of the thread dies out, can anybody comment on this,
Simon, Ansgar, Jean-Christophe, ...?
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 16:32 +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
Maybe I'm naive but doesn't utmp(5) solve this problem?
who(1) tells me in clear-text
On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 10:43:15AM +, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
Sune Vuorela wrote:
The way is to put your time/money where your mouth is and provide the
code. Asking others to do all the work is not the way forward in OSS.
I highly doubt you can call _me_ someone who does not do work in
On 06/27/2014 11:53, Svante Signell wrote:
Before this part of the thread dies out, can anybody comment on this,
Simon, Ansgar, Jean-Christophe, ...?
I think my earlier answer [1] covers this.
[1] https://lists.debian.org/53ac237f.7080...@debian.org
Ansgar
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On 06/27/2014 06:31 PM, Michael Englehorn wrote:
Wouldn't glibc then fall into the list of things you don't like as a
required framework? By that logic, all libraries must be hot-swappable
with no additional effort by the end-user. That's just not realistic.
-Michael
Are you aware that
Thorsten Glaser t...@debian.org writes:
Russ Allbery wrote:
Thorsten Glaser t...@debian.org writes:
Yes, I fully agree. But _please_ also realise that there are people,
a non-neglibile number of them, for whom these frameworks are not an
improvement, and who wish to be not forced to use
The interesting dependency chain is:
Simon, thank you very much for this mail and the two ones following it.
Your objectiveness and choice of words in this heated debate is really
appreciated!
Cheers,
Fabian
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Hi,
Norbert Preining:
http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrcshow_installed=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%25Y-%25mbeenhere=1
Unfair - because it is in the most cases not on free will.
Everyone using Gnome -
Le mercredi 25 juin 2014 à 18:53 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
And logind replacements have not appeared yet, as expected.
Because this is a misstatement of the problem. Logind works systemd-shim
today.
If it works as well as logind without systemd as pid 1 in earlier
versions (leading
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 08:41:17AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le mercredi 25 juin 2014 à 18:53 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
And logind replacements have not appeared yet, as expected.
Because this is a misstatement of the problem. Logind works systemd-shim
today.
If it works as
Simon McVittie dixit quod...
On 25/06/14 15:43, Svante Signell wrote:
Regarding mate desktop policykit-1 build-depends on libsystemd-login-dev
only for linux-any. What functionality is missing for other
architectures?
[...]
In Debian 7, PolicyKit could answer the question is Svante logged-in
Russ Allbery dixit quod...
Simon McVittie s...@debian.org writes:
[ startx ]
a virtual console, a locked X screensaver is worthless, because someone
can just switch virtual console with Ctrl+Alt+Fn, press Ctrl+C and
they're in your shell session.
This doesn't change anything else that you
Le jeudi 26 juin 2014 à 08:31 +, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
Can we have alternative dependencies that do not need to get
answers to these questions? This worked before *kit were even
invented, and this works on other OSes too.
No, it didn’t work. You had to be root for operations as simple
Thorsten Glaser t...@debian.org writes:
For the record, I would be happy with a supported setup without systemd
that relied on using startx, and putting people into the desktop unix
groups manually.
I don't think startx and fvwm are going anywhere, so, um, enjoy? :) fvwm
doesn't depend on
On 26 June 2014 01:36, Marco d'Itri m...@linux.it wrote:
I used the word Insidious as I would have use Stealth, because it's
happening slowly, without us noticing, that everything in Debian is
being locked with systemd. Soon, we'll have no choice.
This is why you should stop fighting: systemd
No, it didn't work. You had to be root for operations as simple as
shutting down the computer.
Only on Debian. OpenBSD and MirBSD have:
-r-sr-x--- 1 root operator 122716 Sep 10 2013 /sbin/shutdown*
I never understood why Debian doesn't.
bye,
//mirabilos
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Hi,
Andrew Shadura:
http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+sysvinitshow_installed=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%Y-%mbeenhere=1
Sorry, but this only demonstrates that you don't know what you're talking about.
For a comparison
On 06/26/2014 11:34, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
No, it didn't work. You had to be root for operations as simple as
shutting down the computer.
Only on Debian. OpenBSD and MirBSD have:
-r-sr-x--- 1 root operator 122716 Sep 10 2013 /sbin/shutdown*
I never understood why Debian doesn't.
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:59 +0200, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
On 06/26/2014 11:34, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
No, it didn't work. You had to be root for operations as simple as
shutting down the computer.
Only on Debian. OpenBSD and MirBSD have:
-r-sr-x--- 1 root operator 122716 Sep 10
+++ Svante Signell [2014-06-24 19:57 +0200]:
I strongly recommend the systemd-must-die package to prevent systemd
components being installed when dist-upgrading without the user being
aware.
Where is this package? I'm not finding it in testing or the pts?
Wookey
--
Principal hats: Linaro,
Le jeudi 26 juin 2014 à 09:34 +, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
No, it didn't work. You had to be root for operations as simple as
shutting down the computer.
Only on Debian. OpenBSD and MirBSD have:
-r-sr-x--- 1 root operator 122716 Sep 10 2013 /sbin/shutdown*
I never understood
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:20 +0100, Wookey wrote:
+++ Svante Signell [2014-06-24 19:57 +0200]:
I strongly recommend the systemd-must-die package to prevent systemd
components being installed when dist-upgrading without the user being
aware.
Where is this package? I'm not finding it in
+++ Matthias Urlichs [2014-06-26 11:58 +0200]:
Hi,
Andrew Shadura:
http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+sysvinitshow_installed=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%Y-%mbeenhere=1
Sorry, but this only demonstrates that you
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:45 +0100, Wookey wrote:
+++ Matthias Urlichs [2014-06-26 11:58 +0200]:
Hi,
Which shows about a change from 'peak sysvinit-core' in mid-april:
Mid april Now
sysvinit-core:89% 81%
systemd-sysv: 6% 19%
A question: If you uninstall a
[ ⏰ 26/06/2014 12:05 ] [ ✎ Svante Signell ]
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:59 +0200, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
On 06/26/2014 11:34, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
No, it didn't work. You had to be root for operations as simple as
shutting down the computer.
Only on Debian. OpenBSD and MirBSD have:
On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 13:02:15 +0200
Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:45 +0100, Wookey wrote:
+++ Matthias Urlichs [2014-06-26 11:58 +0200]:
Hi,
Which shows about a change from 'peak sysvinit-core' in mid-april:
Mid april Now
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 14:03 +0200, Jean-Christophe Dubacq wrote:
[ ⏰ 26/06/2014 12:05 ] [ ✎ Svante Signell ]
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:59 +0200, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
On 06/26/2014 11:34, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
No, it didn't work. You had to be root for operations as simple as
shutting
On 26/06/14 13:33, Svante Signell wrote:
Of course with the additional check that the students are logged in to
that box locally, did I forget to mention that?
Apparently yes. So you'll still need some solution to is this user
local? - either an implementation of the systemd-logind API
Wookey wrote:
+++ Matthias Urlichs [2014-06-26 11:58 +0200]:
Hi,
Andrew Shadura:
[14]http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+sysvinitshow_installed=onwant_legend=o
nwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%Y-%mbeenhere=1
Sorry, but this only
Svante Signell wrote:
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:59 +0200, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
On 06/26/2014 11:34, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
No, it didn't work. You had to be root for operations as simple as
shutting down the computer.
Only on Debian. OpenBSD and MirBSD have:
-r-sr-x--- 1 root
+++ Svante Signell [2014-06-26 12:31 +0200]:
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:20 +0100, Wookey wrote:
+++ Svante Signell [2014-06-24 19:57 +0200]:
I strongly recommend the systemd-must-die package to prevent systemd
components being installed when dist-upgrading without the user being
Jean-Christophe Dubacq wrote:
So that students can do eg ssh mybuddymachine /sbin/shutdown ?
(and they need to be able to shutdown their own machine, power is not free).
Why do people always think that a proposal will automatically
exclude all others?
In your student scenario, you do *not* add
Simon McVittie wrote:
tl;dr: these frameworks were not invented just to troll you, they do
have a purpose :-)
Yes, I fully agree. But _please_ also realise that there are people,
a non-neglibile number of them, for whom these frameworks are not an
improvement, and who wish to be not forced to use
Hi,
On 06/26/2014 14:33, Svante Signell wrote:
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 14:03 +0200, Jean-Christophe Dubacq wrote:
[ ⏰ 26/06/2014 12:05 ] [ ✎ Svante Signell ]
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:59 +0200, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
On 06/26/2014 11:34, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
No, it didn't work. You had to be
[ ⏰ 26/06/2014 15:34 ] [ ✎ Thorsten Glaser ]
Jean-Christophe Dubacq wrote:
So that students can do eg ssh mybuddymachine /sbin/shutdown ?
(and they need to be able to shutdown their own machine, power is not free).
Why do people always think that a proposal will automatically
exclude all
Wookey worte:
[11]http://users.unixforge.de/~tglaser/debs/dists/etch/wtf/Pkgs/mirabilos-support/
Can it be uploaded please? As has been observed, there is a reasonable
number of people who would like an easy way to control explicitly
when/if they change to systemd for pid 1. Having to get it
In other news for Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 02:33:49PM +0100, Wookey has been seen
typing:
+++ Svante Signell [2014-06-26 12:31 +0200]:
Not in any official Debian repo unfortunately:
http://users.unixforge.de/~tglaser/debs/dists/etch/wtf/Pkgs/mirabilos-support/
Can it be uploaded please?
On Jun 26, Wookey woo...@wookware.org wrote:
Can it be uploaded please? As has been observed, there is a reasonable
number of people who would like an easy way to control explicitly
when/if they change to systemd for pid 1. Having to get it from a
apt-get install equivs
--
ciao,
Marco
On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 13:53 +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
On 26/06/14 13:33, Svante Signell wrote:
Of course with the additional check that the students are logged in to
that box locally, did I forget to mention that?
... or
something involving utmp/wtmp/other traditions.
utmp(5) says
On Jun 26, Thorsten Glaser t...@debian.org wrote:
Yes, I fully agree. But _please_ also realise that there are people,
a non-neglibile number of them, for whom these frameworks are not an
improvement, and who wish to be not forced to use them.
A few people said this about udev as well. Now
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
On 26/06/2014 15:33, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Jun 26, Thorsten Glaser t...@debian.org wrote:
Yes, I fully agree. But _please_ also realise that there are people,
a non-neglibile number of them, for whom these frameworks are not an
improvement,
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 10:58 PM, Alastair McKinstry wrote:
udev itself is disabled in scripts as it keeps crashing
on my hardware. (Old powerpc server).
Which bug number is this?
--
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pabs
http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
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On 26 Jun 2014 15:05, Thorsten Glaser t...@debian.org wrote:
content of its own. I believe it does not need to be in Debian
itself, technically, but I agree to upload it if its presence
is desired politically (even to wheezy-backports).
Personally I would love it.
Cheers.
--
Alessio
Thorsten Glaser t...@debian.org writes:
Yes, I fully agree. But _please_ also realise that there are people,
a non-neglibile number of them, for whom these frameworks are not an
improvement, and who wish to be not forced to use them.
That's fine for you to feel that way, but that feeling does
On 06/25/2014 02:23 AM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Are you going to recommend a $package-must-die for each of them?
Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount
of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always brought
back by insidious reverse
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014, Thomas Goirand wrote:
Are you going to recommend a $package-must-die for each of them?
Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount
of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always brought
back by insidious reverse
Le mercredi 25 juin 2014 à 14:29 +0800, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount
of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always brought
back by insidious reverse dependencies?
“Insidious reverse dependencies”?
You are
Hi,
Thomas Goirand:
On 06/25/2014 02:23 AM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Are you going to recommend a $package-must-die for each of them?
Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount
of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always brought
back by
On 06/25/2014 03:59 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le mercredi 25 juin 2014 à 14:29 +0800, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount
of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always brought
back by insidious reverse
On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 22:01 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 06/25/2014 03:59 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
You are insinuating that people are surreptitiously adding dependencies
on systemd components their packages don’t need, just so that they get
installed on your system to piss you
On 25/06/14 15:43, Svante Signell wrote:
Regarding mate desktop policykit-1 build-depends on libsystemd-login-dev
only for linux-any. What functionality is missing for other
architectures?
The interesting dependency chain is:
policykit-1 Depends libpam-systemd [linux-any] (degraded
On Tue, 2014-06-24 at 20:23 +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le mardi 24 juin 2014 à 19:57 +0200, Svante Signell a écrit :
Are there any chances that some version of policykit-1 could stay free
from any *systemd* dependency?
PolicyKit needs a session tracking mechanism, and with ConsoleKit
On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 17:38 +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
On 25/06/14 15:43, Svante Signell wrote:
Regarding mate desktop policykit-1 build-depends on libsystemd-login-dev
only for linux-any. What functionality is missing for other
architectures?
The interesting dependency chain is:
On 25/06/14 19:51, Svante Signell wrote:
Looks like consolekit is the package fork if such a thing ever happens.
There are still patches, mainly for kFreeBSD, from 2013-2014 in the
freedesktop BTS since the last release. When was the Debian switch from
consolekit to policykit-1 made?
On 25/06/14 20:03, Svante Signell wrote:
On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 17:38 +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
Upstream developers in various projects increasingly oppose group-based
access, because membership of many desktop stuff groups essentially
means can ssh in and do bad things to a local user. For
Hi,
Thomas Goirand:
If you don't like that depencendy, it's your job to offer a patch
which supports an alternative to that maintainer.
It's not reasonable to tell I'm responsible for all of this.
This you was meant to refer to the collective set of people who want a
supported
Simon McVittie s...@debian.org writes:
Orthogonal to that, startx is basically terrible. It only works because
/usr/bin/X is setuid root, and that seems Bad™. Also, if you run it from
a virtual console, a locked X screensaver is worthless, because someone
can just switch virtual console with
On Jun 25, Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org wrote:
I used the word Insidious as I would have use Stealth, because it's
happening slowly, without us noticing, that everything in Debian is
being locked with systemd. Soon, we'll have no choice.
This is why you should stop fighting: systemd has won.
http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrcshow_installed=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%25Y-%25mbeenhere=1
Unfair - because it is in the most cases not on free will.
Everyone using Gnome - and that are a lot of users
On 2014-06-25 14:03:20 -0700 (-0700), Russ Allbery wrote:
This doesn't change anything else that you point out, but that's
why you run startx and then log out of the virtual console.
On my workstations and travel machines I have:
alias x='startxexit'
...in my ~/.bash_aliases file. Works
On Jun 26, Norbert Preining prein...@logic.at wrote:
http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrcshow_installed=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%25Y-%25mbeenhere=1
Unfair - because it is in the most cases not on free
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 03:22:50AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Jun 26, Norbert Preining prein...@logic.at wrote:
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