On 25 Jun 1998, Martin Mitchell wrote:
Sorry for the delayed reply, I've been away a few days.
Dale Scheetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On 17 Jun 1998, Martin Mitchell wrote:
Dale Scheetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Did you use X and x as declared on the help screen? These are the
Sorry for the delayed reply, I've been away a few days.
Dale Scheetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On 17 Jun 1998, Martin Mitchell wrote:
Dale Scheetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
This is the old .rc file, left behind by a dpkg artifact during the
upgrade. While future versions of ae will
if you all do not stop this discussion i start writing an editor. easy
to use just as EDIT.EXE. for anybody, especially a beginner. also for
professionals.
:wq
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* Michael Dietrich (Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 04:31:52AM +0200)
if you all do not stop this discussion i start writing an editor. easy
to use just as EDIT.EXE. for anybody, especially a beginner. also for
professionals.
:wq
Go ahead, it wouldn't hurt, would it? :-)
--
SSM - Stig Sandbeck
On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Stig Sandbeck Mathisen wrote:
* Michael Dietrich (Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 04:31:52AM +0200)
if you all do not stop this discussion i start writing an editor. easy
to use just as EDIT.EXE. for anybody, especially a beginner. also for
professionals.
:wq
Go ahead, it
if you all do not stop this discussion i start writing an editor.
easy to use just as EDIT.EXE. for anybody, especially a beginner.
also for professionals.
:wq
Go ahead, it wouldn't hurt, would it? :-)
OK, i would start if everybody promisses to stop the discussion if or
if not a beginner
On Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 09:30:17AM -0400, Ray Kinsella wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Stig Sandbeck Mathisen wrote:
* Michael Dietrich (Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 04:31:52AM +0200)
if you all do not stop this discussion i start writing an editor. easy
to use just as EDIT.EXE. for anybody,
Igor Grobman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Some time around Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:07:24 +1000,
Craig Sanders wrote:
elvis-tiny is small enough to fit on too (although that may have
changed now that we use slang rather than ncurses - can
elvis-tiny use slang??) and provides a
Some time around Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:07:24 +1000,
Craig Sanders wrote:
elvis-tiny is small enough to fit on too (although that may have changed
now that we use slang rather than ncurses - can elvis-tiny use slang??)
and provides a decent editor for people who can't/won't use
On 15 Jun 1998, Martin Mitchell wrote:
Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yes, but note that the current version of ae fixes a lot of these
problems. [I found this out while attempting to verify some
of my gripes about ae.]
Is it just me, or does the vi mode in the current version
On 15 Jun 1998, Martin Mitchell wrote:
Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yes, but note that the current version of ae fixes a lot of these
problems. [I found this out while attempting to verify some
of my gripes about ae.]
Is it just me, or does the vi mode in the current version
Dale Scheetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
This is the old .rc file, left behind by a dpkg artifact during the
upgrade. While future versions of ae will be able to remove this file, I
don't see Brian letting it into hamm, but as it is only useful in this
mode during an install, everything will
On 17 Jun 1998, Martin Mitchell wrote:
Dale Scheetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
This is the old .rc file, left behind by a dpkg artifact during the
upgrade. While future versions of ae will be able to remove this file, I
don't see Brian letting it into hamm, but as it is only useful in
Absolute novices unwilling to learn should be lead gently to
the nearest windows box.
How about something like:
[..]
This editor has two modes, in Input mode you may enter text,
in Command mode you may alter previously entered text.
To enter input mode from command mode, hit i
On Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 03:08:15PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
Remember that we're talking theory here, even elvis-tiny is
currently bigger than ae, and space is cramped on the rescue
disk.
How about gzexe?
Hamish
--
Hamish Moffatt, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Michael Dietrich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
do you really think an absolute novice would understand why he or she
should press j or k and not those fancy key with the arrows with the
correct direction instead and that those key should won't insert those
letters printed on them into the text?
On Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 10:27:52AM -0400, Z-Y [Jerry] wrote:
greet all,
I am no guru. But let's stop this war!
yes...wars are unproductive..and in the case of this type of war
doesn't even have the benefit of getting rid of some people off the planet.
To me, choice of editor depends on
Manoj Srivastava writes:
Absolute novices unwilling to learn should be lead gently to
the nearest windows box.
As I see it, it's not a matter of `learning' but of `using' what
is available on the boot disk.
My usual editor is emacs. Today I used `ee' for the first time,
while
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I agree tottally. Personally..my favoprite editor right now is ee. I use it
I suppose ee is also a candidate for the rescue disks if it fits (it
offers searching, which is something that ae doesn't do, and it's
smaller than elvis-tiny).
Also, note that
Jeff Sheinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The problem is that `ae' is what's available. I just go bananas
trying to use it. It just rubs me the wrong way. Perhaps others
react to ae in a similar way?
Yes, but note that the current version of ae fixes a lot of these
problems. [I found this
Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yes, but note that the current version of ae fixes a lot of these
problems. [I found this out while attempting to verify some
of my gripes about ae.]
Is it just me, or does the vi mode in the current version of ae not work
at all? I tried
ae -f
Hi,
Marcus == Marcus Brinkmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Marcus Problem is, you'll never be able to convince a DOS user of a
Marcus text editor with different modes. Sorry, I don't think a dumb
Marcus newbie should be able to install a workstation, but he should
Marcus be able to install the
Hi,
Marcus == Marcus Brinkmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Marcus Oh, cool.
Marcus DEBIAN: Sorry, you need a ph.d. in computer science,
Marcus 10-year-experience in unix system administration or a good
Marcus handbook on the obscure vi program before you can edit a
Marcus file during
Hi,
Jason == Jason Gunthorpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jason On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Jason Manoj, does the kernel package always build bzimages or does it look at
Jason the size of gzip -9 vmlinux and decide based on that?
The kernel makefile defaults to a bzImage
On Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 03:53:59AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
Hi,
Marcus == Marcus Brinkmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Marcus Problem is, you'll never be able to convince a DOS user of a
Marcus text editor with different modes. Sorry, I don't think a dumb
Marcus newbie should be able
On Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 03:49:29AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
Hi,
Frankly, is is a disservice to introduce anyone with that
opinion to Linux, for they shall never be able to take care of the
machine itself, and they shall go away bad mouthing Debian. Actually,
anyone who thinks
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Absolute novices unwilling to learn should be lead gently to
the nearest windows box.
How about something like:
introductory vi help (unmap '?' to restore reverse searching)
This editor has two modes, in Input mode you may enter text,
in
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Most features? *VI*? or you mean XEmacs? Since when has vi
been an editor with features? ;-)
The biggest advantage of vi over xemacs is that vi is easier on the
wrists. For example, vi's . command (repeat last command which changed
the text) is
greet all,
I am no guru. But let's stop this war! To me, choice of editor depends on
your experience, skill and task on hand. I use vi and my boss at work uses
emacs. We both like our own choice very much and enjoy the way our choice
works for us. But we never try to convert each other,
Most features? *VI*? or you mean XEmacs? Since when has vi
been an editor with features? ;-)
manoj
Kidding, right ?
Do :help in VIM and enjoy reading about Vi features till the end of the
month :)
Alex Y.
--
_
_( )_
( (o___
Z-Y [Jerry] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am no guru. But let's stop this war!
I apologize for everything I said which seemed combative.
--
Raul
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On Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 09:53:17AM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Absolute novices unwilling to learn should be lead gently to
the nearest windows box.
How about something like:
I think you made a good summarize of my total vi knowledge :)
I know
I know that this is sufficient for simple edits, and this is
all I really know about Vi.
We should have a Debian tutorial soon (IIRC). If we have a good chapter on
Vi in it, I think vi on the rescue disk should not be a problem.
Maybe the text you wrote could be displayed when vi is
Marcus Brinkmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe the text you wrote could be displayed when vi is started (like emacs
has some text at start-up) ?
Remember that we're talking theory here, even elvis-tiny is
currently bigger than ae, and space is cramped on the rescue
disk.
That said, I was
On Fri, Jun 12, 1998 at 09:53:16PM +0200, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
Problem is, you'll never be able to convince a DOS user of a text editor
with different modes. Sorry, I don't think a dumb newbie should be able to
install a workstation, but he should be able to install the base system and
play
Tomislav Vujec wrote:
On Fri, Jun 12, 1998 at 09:53:16PM +0200, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
Problem is, you'll never be able to convince a DOS user of a text editor
with different modes. Sorry, I don't think a dumb newbie should be able to
install a workstation, but he should be able to
On Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 03:38:59PM -0400, Dale Scheetz wrote:
If vi would fit on the rescue disk, do you think we would be discussing
ae?
To be able to do an install with the rescue disk the space priorities
don't allow anything but ae in that environment. When you can get vi's
binary size
Marcus Brinkmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DEBIAN: Sorry, you need a ph.d. in computer science, 10-year-experience
in unix system administration or a good handbook on the obscure vi program
before you can edit a file during installation process.
Don't even think of installing it.
Er.. a
On Fri, Jun 12, 1998 at 02:41:56PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
Marcus Brinkmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DEBIAN: Sorry, you need a ph.d. in computer science, 10-year-experience
in unix system administration or a good handbook on the obscure vi program
before you can edit a file during
Dale Scheetz writes:
To be able to do an install with the rescue disk the space priorities
don't allow anything but ae in that environment. When you can get vi's
binary size down to the footprint of ae, I will be glad to replace it.
Until then all talk of superior usability are nothing but
On Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 05:24:06PM -0400, Dale Scheetz wrote:
kernel image files (some laptops still can't boot a bzImage) as well as
some alternative root.bin choices. A more powerful rescue disk, separate
from the installation disk would be a great place to start.
Can someone give me a quick
Can someone give me a quick summary of bzImage vs zImage and why Debian
needs to use bzImage on the root disks at all? Not only does it cause
problems with some notebooks, it causes problems my desktop -- spontaneous
reboots after Uncompressing Linux sometimes.
Well. It goes like this.
On Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 09:17:20PM -0600, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
When you boot the kernel it copies the Image from the disk to 0x1000
(about 64k). If the Image is beyond 600k then you have a problem because
it suddenly will not all fit in low memory.
A bzImage is more sinister. After it
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
If your kernel is 600k you MUST use a bzImage and you MUST load it into
So is there any other advantage? 600k is pretty big for a default
kernel, especially since we are making heavy use of modules. My custom 2.0.34
is 300k odd, although
On Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 09:39:01PM -0600, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
I've no idea why my desktop hates it. Everything else about the machine is
perfect, and it's a custom-built clone rather than some IBM or Compaq
box, the sought with weird BIOSen.
What is your boot loader? I've only
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 09:39:01PM -0600, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
I've no idea why my desktop hates it. Everything else about the machine is
perfect, and it's a custom-built clone rather than some IBM or Compaq
box, the sought with weird
On Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 09:44:53PM -0600, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 09:39:01PM -0600, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
I've no idea why my desktop hates it. Everything else about the machine
is
perfect, and it's a custom-built
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Tried booting from a floppy created with dd?
Same problem, if memory serves correctly. Will check it out asap.
Upon reflection it occures to me that there are two other possibilities
1) The bios calls to access high memory make it so that the
Jason Gunthorpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Tried booting from a floppy created with dd?
Same problem, if memory serves correctly. Will check it out asap.
Upon reflection it occures to me that there are two other possibilities
1) The bios
I'm told problem is related to turning on the A12 Gate and the
cache. It was never explained to me in detail, but it has something
to do with the cache having the wrong contents (or rather the wrong
tags on the contents) after the A12 line was set. It was never clear
to me why they couldn't
path without saying what that set path should be. So, why do the
vi users like _using_ vi? (Someone already said it's standard...
can I get real reasons now? :)
i'm faster with vi. that's all.
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If vi would fit on the rescue disk, do you think we would be discussing
ae?
i think it's not a good idea to put vi there. this editor can be used
by a profi only and a prof can use any other editor too. a beginner
won't be able to use vi but the easy to use small editor. maybe ae is
bad, but it
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 09:17:20PM -0600, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
When you boot the kernel it copies the Image from the disk to 0x1000
(about 64k). If the Image is beyond 600k then you have a problem because
it suddenly will not all fit in low
Quoting Dale Scheetz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
Another solution is the one that slackware provides. They build a bunch
of kernels, each one for a specific hardware configuration (broad enought
to cover a range of hardware, and chosen to keep incopatibly drivers out
of the picture {like the wd9000
Previously Dale Scheetz wrote:
ae already does this, and provides a reasonably vi ish interface, just to
satisfy those whose fingers are only programmed for vi.
Personally, I find ae's vi-compatibility even worse then normal ae: it
tricks me into thinking it's vi, but I can never resist using
On Thu, Jun 11, 1998 at 04:15:33PM +0200, Michael Dietrich wrote:
If vi would fit on the rescue disk, do you think we would be discussing
ae?
i think it's not a good idea to put vi there. this editor can be used
by a profi only and a prof can use any other editor too. a beginner
won't be
At a client's place with a broken SunOS 4 box? Need to fix the /usr
partition and password file. Chances are are you'll have to use vi.
Similarly, BSD, SCO, etc, etc...
maybe you should learn edlin, it's the only editor available on computers
running msdos 2.11.
or how to use vms, maybe one
i'm useing vim every day. i cannot even open or save a file in emacs, or your
it (hey, i tried !).
a working joe is better than a brain damaged vi or ae.
andreas
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(vi)
It is the only editor that you can count on being there if all else fails
and it's absence or replacement would be VERY notable to those who expect
vi.
editor.exe is the only editor that you can count on being there if all else
fails and it's absence or replacement would be VERY notable
If vi would fit on the rescue disk, do you think we would be discussing
ae?
To be able to do an install with the rescue disk the space priorities
don't allow anything but ae in that environment. When you can get vi's
binary size down to the footprint of ae, I will be glad to replace it.
Andreas Jellinghaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
everyone can use joe. it might be very frustrateing but it's possible.
We already have that with ae. Is Joe smaller than ae?
--
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On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
Previously Dale Scheetz wrote:
ae already does this, and provides a reasonably vi ish interface, just to
satisfy those whose fingers are only programmed for vi.
Personally, I find ae's vi-compatibility even worse then normal ae: it
tricks me
On Thu 11 Jun 1998, Raul Miller wrote:
Andreas Jellinghaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
everyone can use joe. it might be very frustrateing but it's possible.
We already have that with ae. Is Joe smaller than ae?
no. much bigger and much more useable IMO.
andreas
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On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
: Previously Dale Scheetz wrote:
: ae already does this, and provides a reasonably vi ish interface, just to
: satisfy those whose fingers are only programmed for vi.
:
: Personally, I find ae's vi-compatibility even worse then normal ae: it
:
Andreas Jellinghaus wrote:
editor.exe is the only editor that you can count on being there if all else
fails and it's absence or replacement would be VERY notable to those who
expect editor.exe
lets do a ratio of dos/win* users that will install linux,
and unix users that will install linux.
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Raul Miller wrote:
Andreas Jellinghaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
everyone can use joe. it might be very frustrateing but it's possible.
We already have that with ae. Is Joe smaller than ae?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~]$ ll /bin/ae /usr/bin/joe
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
Previously Dale Scheetz wrote:
ae already does this, and provides a reasonably vi ish interface, just to
satisfy those whose fingers are only programmed for vi.
Personally, I find ae's vi-compatibility even worse then normal ae: it
tricks me
On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Jim wrote:
What is it people see in vi in terms of _using_ it? My opinion FWIW is that
vi's presentation rivals that of dselect in general, with vi inching dselect
out for not forcing one to follow a set path without saying what that set
path should be. So, why do the vi
On Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 04:30:42PM +0100, Jules Bean wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Jim wrote:
Vi is a standard. Everyone who considers themselves a 'systems
administrator' should learn how to use vi. This is because even on very
old systems, you will find vi on the base system.
When it comes
On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
On Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 04:30:42PM +0100, Jules Bean wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Jim wrote:
Vi is a standard. Everyone who considers themselves a 'systems
administrator' should learn how to use vi. This is because even on very
old systems,
PS: If you say that a sysadmin expects vi to be there, link vi to ae on a
rescue disk. He *will* have an editor, this should be sufficient.
Argh!
Please don't do this. It used to drive me nuts to type vi and get ae (whether
in ae or braindamaged-vi mode). If there is some vital reason for
Philip Hands wrote:
Please don't do this. It used to drive me nuts to type vi and get ae (whether
in ae or braindamaged-vi mode). If there is some vital reason for removing
vi, it should be replaced with a script that says something along the lines
of:
VI is missing from this rescue
On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, Philip Hands wrote:
PS: If you say that a sysadmin expects vi to be there, link vi to ae on a
rescue disk. He *will* have an editor, this should be sufficient.
Argh!
Please don't do this. It used to drive me nuts to type vi and get ae
(whether
in ae or
On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, Christopher C. Chimelis wrote:
Like I said, overall, I think this issue is being discussed on a comfort
level right now. I think we should really be hashing out whether or not
we want to cater to newbies (ae) or to experienced systems admins (vi).
I'm for the latter, but
On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote:
If vi would fit on the rescue disk, do you think we would be discussing
ae?
I guess not, then...
To be able to do an install with the rescue disk the space priorities
don't allow anything but ae in that environment. When you can get vi's
binary
On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, Christopher C Chimelis wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote:
If vi would fit on the rescue disk, do you think we would be discussing
ae?
I guess not, then...
To be able to do an install with the rescue disk the space priorities
don't allow anything
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Dale Scheetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If vi would fit on the rescue disk, do you think we would be discussing
ae?
$ ll elvis-tiny
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root67244 Feb 22 15:45 elvis-tiny*
$ ll /bin/ae
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root24012 Apr 13 15:12
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