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Scribit Manuel Hoppe dies 15/03/2005 hora 18:56:
> > > [wise to move /hurd to /srv/hurd]
> > But it's meant to be site-specific, and an administrator should be
> > able to wipe it without rendering the system unusable.
> No, not at all. Eg. Apache rely on the existence of certain files and
> direct
> FHS assumes that every program works from the shell. Hurd servers
> don't really work from the shell.
Noone starts init on the shell, and it is in /sbin.
> What the FHS calls "binaries" are only some executables on the Hurd;
> we have other executables that don't work like FHS "binaries", gotch
Pierre THIERRY, le mer 16 mar 2005 12:15:24 +0100, a dit :
> > FHS assumes that every program works from the shell. Hurd servers
> > don't really work from the shell.
>
> Noone starts init on the shell, and it is in /sbin.
I start init on the shell: init 1, init q, ...
Regards,
Samuel
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Why don't Hurd servers are in /sbin or /usr/sbin?
Because they don't belong there. /hurd is infact FHS compliant,
nothing prohibits a system distributor of introducing a new directory
in /.
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But they are binaries that make the system work, so they would fit
in /sbin:
This is a useless way of arguing, ld.so.1 is a "binary
that make the system work", so is libc.so, and all files in /lib.
As I don't have (yet) a working Hurd system on one of my machines,
could someone list m
> What the FHS calls "binaries" are only some executables on the
> Hurd; we have other executables that don't work like FHS
> "binaries", gotcha?
Sincerely, I'm not sure I see why it is needed to make a
difference. I may ask the question from a different point of view:
does it ha
Translators are in that directory, you cannot start them (in most
cases) by just typing /hurd/TRANSLATOR. The only useles options to
them is --help/--version. Hence, they do not belong in /sbin or /bin.
s/useles/useful/
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Hey,
>Why don't Hurd servers are in /sbin or /usr/sbin?
>
> Because they don't belong there. /hurd is infact FHS compliant,
> nothing prohibits a system distributor of introducing a new directory
> in /.
What is with /lib/hurd or /lib/servers? GNU/Linux has it modules
in /lib/modules/$kerne
Pierre THIERRY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > What the FHS calls "binaries" are only some executables on the Hurd;
> > we have other executables that don't work like FHS "binaries", gotcha?
>
> Sincerely, I'm not sure I see why it is needed to make a difference. I
> may ask the question from a d
Pierre Gillmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> What is with /lib/hurd or /lib/servers? GNU/Linux has it modules
> in /lib/modules/$kernel-version, so why you do not the same for Hurd?
They are not libraries.
> In fact /hurd is very easy to use, but if there are same problems with
> the FHS, it wi
GNU/Linux has it modules in /lib/modules/$kernel-version, so why
you do not the same for Hurd?
They are _programs_, not libraries.
I think I can speak for all who care about the Hurd here, be it within
Debian or not: We will NOT change /hurd to be somewhere else.
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We are compliant with FHS.
And even if we weren't we wouldn't change it anyway, since such
stupdity shouldn't exist in a standard in the first palce. Standards
are not rules that should be followed blindly nor can they contain all
"oddities" that one might come up with.
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Scribit Thomas Bushnell BSG dies 16/03/2005 hora 09:45:
> > What is with /lib/hurd or /lib/servers? GNU/Linux has it modules in
> > /lib/modules/$kernel-version, so why you do not the same for Hurd?
> They are not libraries.
Nor are the kernel modules in Linux... Thus, quoting the FHS:
``/lib :
Scribit Thomas Bushnell BSG dies 16/03/2005 hora 09:45:
> > does it harm to respect FHS and put what is in /hurd in /sbin and
> > /usr/sbin?
> We are not disrespecting FHS, and yes, it does harm.
OK, would you mind explain me how it harms? Or just give me the
reference to the FM where it is explai
OK, would you mind explain me how it harms?
I explained it already. They are totally useles to have in PATH since
the only useful option you can pass to a translator is --help or
--version.
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Some changes to the way Debian manages its archive and releases
architectures may be in the works. Most of this doesn't affect Debian
Hurd because we aren't a release architecture anyway.
Architectures which are not released or have low download rates will
be hosted on a separate archive; this m
Pierre THIERRY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Scribit Thomas Bushnell BSG dies 16/03/2005 hora 09:45:
>> > What is with /lib/hurd or /lib/servers? GNU/Linux has it modules in
>> > /lib/modules/$kernel-version, so why you do not the same for Hurd?
>> They are not libraries.
>
> Nor are the kernel mo
- Original Message -
From: "Thomas Bushnell BSG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 2:04 PM
Subject: heads up
"WE"??? Does that mean you are joining us again??
/me hides. :-)
Barry deFreese (aka bddebian)
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Pierre THIERRY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> As the Hurd works with a Â-kernel, the Hurd servers do precisely what,
> in Linux, the loadable modules do, and they are in /lib.
No, they don't. Kernel modules are very close to shared libraries,
which is why they are in that directory.
> It's not a
Pierre THIERRY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Scribit Thomas Bushnell BSG dies 16/03/2005 hora 09:45:
> > > does it harm to respect FHS and put what is in /hurd in /sbin and
> > > /usr/sbin?
> > We are not disrespecting FHS, and yes, it does harm.
>
> OK, would you mind explain me how it harms? Or
"Barry deFreese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "WE"??? Does that mean you are joining us again??
Hrm.
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Look, you have obviously not done your homework about the FHS or the
Hurd. So please get a clue about those two things before you bother
with this bullshit again.
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- Original Message -
From: "Thomas Bushnell BSG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Barry deFreese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: heads up
"Barry deFreese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
"WE"??? Does that mean you are joining us again??
Hrm.
I mean, l
2. the architecture must be able to run a buildd 24/7 sustained
(without crashing)
3. the architecture must have an actual, running, working buildd
This, I think needs to be our target.
I think the "without crashing" is the only thing that needs the
target. Just compiling gl
"Alfred M. Szmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> How is one supposed to demonstrate that a port has atleast 50 users by
> the way?
Popularity-contest is one way. Another is just asking them.
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>> "WE"??? Does that mean you are joining us again??
>
> Hrm.
I mean, let's see some code, some patches, some input man. We miss
you.. :-)
Where are your patches, Barry? Where is your code, Barry? Did you
give any input lately, Barry?
(and I agree about the missing bit...)
- Original Message -
From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Barry deFreese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: heads up
>> "WE"??? Does that mean you are joining us again??
>
> Hrm.
I mean, let's see some
You really need to lighten up!
(a proper response might have been along the lines "Alfred, what have
you done lateley huh? When will you send those patches that you have
in your tree?", etc.)
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- Original Message -
From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Thomas Bushnell BSG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: heads up
2. the architecture must be able to run a buildd 24/7 sustained
(without crashing)
3. the architectur
"Barry deFreese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Yes, that is going to be a tough one. I was hoping to use my new box
> with an 80Gb drive but it has been very unstable.
So what we need then are bug fixes. :) What are the crashes? I saw
messages about crashing during libc, but the talk was all a
- Original Message -
From: "Thomas Bushnell BSG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Barry deFreese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: heads up
"Barry deFreese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
So what we need then are bug fixes. :) Wha
We do? Guillem and Michael are active DDs. Who else? Thomas is I
think. What about Marcus and Neal, are they both DDs?
Please don't count me to "we" if you just mean Debian.
The following people come to my mind: Thomas, Marcus, Michael, Jeff,
Roland (I think), Guillem, Neal (I think).
"Barry deFreese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >> We do? Guillem and Michael are active DDs. Who else? Thomas is I
> >> think. What about Marcus and Neal, are they both DDs?
> >
> > I am, and Marcus is.
>
> There's 4. I would like to throw my name in the NM queue but that
> might take a while
So what we need then are bug fixes. :) What are the crashes? I saw
messages about crashing during libc, but the talk was all about how
to reconfigure libc so it wouldn't crash when compiling...though we
shouldn't crash even for bogus compiles.
The crash happened since when compiling l
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Barry deFreese wrote:
> >> We do? Guillem and Michael are active DDs. Who else? Thomas is I
> >> think. What about Marcus and Neal, are they both DDs?
> >
> > I am, and Marcus is.
>
> There's 4. I would like to throw my name in the NM queue but that might
> take a while.
Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
So what we need then are bug fixes. :) What are the crashes? I saw
messages about crashing during libc, but the talk was all about how to
reconfigure libc so it wouldn't crash when compiling...though we
shouldn't crash even for bogus compiles.
There are some bugs that
> [Hurd servers] are totally useles to have in PATH
But /lib/hurd is not in PATH, and the Hurd servers would perfectly fit
in there.
Easily,
Nowhere man
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> [Hurd servers] are totally useles to have in PATH
But /lib/hurd is not in PATH, and the Hurd servers would perfectly
fit in there.
No they would not, they are not libraries. Please stop discussing
this issue.
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It does not fit perfectly (and it does not fit at all) because /lib is
for libraries, not for executables. Translators are executables (that
don't belong in PATH). Let the vicious circle stop.
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:54:20 +0100, Pierre THIERRY
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > [Hurd servers] are to
Pierre THIERRY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > [Hurd servers] are totally useles to have in PATH
>
> But /lib/hurd is not in PATH, and the Hurd servers would perfectly fit
> in there.
They would "fit" in /usr/share/unrelated too. But we chose /hurd as
being more descriptive. /lib is for librar
Coin,
Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> We do? Guillem and Michael are active DDs. Who else? Thomas is I
>> think. What about Marcus and Neal, are they both DDs?
>
> I am, and Marcus is.
I am at the end of the NM process, accepted by the DAM, but still
waiting for an account
"Alfred M. Szmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> You really need to lighten up!
>
> (a proper response might have been along the lines "Alfred, what have
> you done lateley huh? When will you send those patches that you have
> in your tree?", etc.)
At least I gave up on asking you. ;-P
--
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Marc DequÃnes (Duck) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Asking for having one of the autobuilder's pool always up should be a
> sufficient criteria ; we could acheive that and push this modified
> criteria to the release-team draft.
Ok, I'll see if I can get that going.
Hi,
I am not even trying to comprehend where these rules come from, or
what their sanity is. I am just going to accept whatever comes out of
the Debian cabal as long as I can morally accept it.
At 16 Mar 2005 11:04:39 -0800,
Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> 1. the architecture must be freely usable
Marcus Brinkmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I am not even trying to comprehend where these rules come from, or
> what their sanity is. I am just going to accept whatever comes out of
> the Debian cabal as long as I can morally accept it.
See debian-devel.
> Does this mean eternally, or only
Hi,
On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 11:04:39AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Some changes to the way Debian manages its archive and releases
> architectures may be in the works. Most of this doesn't affect Debian
> Hurd because we aren't a release architecture anyway.
To be precise, we were a 'sec
Michael Banck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> To be precise, we were a 'second class citizen' for all the time. So in
> case we manage to stay at that level for the time being, we might even
> profit from it. E.g. unstable snapshots look very much like what Philip
> Charles did with the CD release
At 16 Mar 2005 14:35:43 -0800,
Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Does this mean eternally, or only for one week? Who is going to
> > verify this?
>
> Verification isn't the point; if people can't be trusted not to lie,
> then everything is broken already. But what it means actually, is
> uncertain.
Here's one fellow's interpretation of that requirement.
--- Begin Message ---
On Mar 17, Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > One of the conditions for SCC is "fully functioning Unix, including
> > > DNS and firewall support." What specifically is intended by "firewall
> > > s
On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 03:54:28PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Here's one fellow's interpretation of that requirement.
Marco has advocated dropping 'doorstop architectures' from Debian for
years and he is in no way authorative on this matter.
Of course, it would be nice to have people w
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
***
> I am not saying that 50% can't be achieved. It probably can. But 50%
> for us is much harder than 50% for another Linux port, that's all I am
> saying. There should be some factor to take that into account.
There is a major difference betw
Philip Charles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> There is a major difference between the GNU/Hurd and all the Linux and
> BSD ports. We are creating a new os.
Right, but it wouldn't be unfair for Debian to say that the purpose of
Debian is something else. So we can use the Debian infrastructure,
bu
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On 16 Mar 2005, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Philip Charles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > There is a major difference between the GNU/Hurd and all the Linux and
> > BSD ports. We are creating a new os.
>
> Right, but it wouldn't be unfair for Debian to say that the purpose of
> Debian is some
Philip Charles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Generally agree, but I think that the decision about GNU/Hurd should be
> made on the basis of it being a new os under development, and not the
> criteria set up for mature os's and their ports.
Can you offer specific criteria that will ease their fear
On 16 Mar 2005, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Philip Charles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Generally agree, but I think that the decision about GNU/Hurd should be
> > made on the basis of it being a new os under development, and not the
> > criteria set up for mature os's and their ports.
>
> C
There is a major difference between the GNU/Hurd and all the Linux
and BSD ports. We are creating a new os.
I fail to see who exactly is creating a new OS.
I know you cannot mean Debian GNU/Hurd, since it is a second class
citizen within Debian and will _always_ be a second class citizen.
That might not be a bad thing anyway, but it would be more work and
a change.
The work needed would be minimal, and I doubt you would need any
changes. There has always been a seperate archive where Debian
GNU/Hurd has put hacks.
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