> I'm a sysadmin in a small ISP here in Argentina, and I'm not using
> osirusoft rbl, why? fibertel. What's that? A big cable-ISP (in .ar,
obviously)
> who gives BOTH dinamic and static IP address for their customers, the
> mails coming from the static one are (mostly) legit mails from real
Jason,
I'm a sysadmin in a small ISP here in Argentina, and I'm not using
osirusoft rbl, why? fibertel. What's that? A big cable-ISP (in .ar, obviously)
who gives BOTH dinamic and static IP address for their customers, the
mails coming from the static one are (mostly) legit mails from real
On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 10:52:45AM +1000, Jason Lim wrote:
> > he claims that it's OK for chinese sysadmins to ignore spam
> > complaints because they don't know english and don't understand the
> > complaint. he does read english and can act as an interpreter for
> > them. if he really cared abo
>
> I guess debian-isp is not a good forum for a discussion about internals
> of RBL databases. One point, which could be useful for Debian ISPs here
> is that Osirusoft's database uses unfair methods to fight spam
> and blocks whole networks without proper explanation. The decision
> to use that
>
> he claims that it's OK for chinese sysadmins to ignore spam complaints
> because they don't know english and don't understand the complaint. he
> does read english and can act as an interpreter for them. if he really
> cared about resolving the issue, he'd do something productive about it
>
>
> he claims that it's OK for chinese sysadmins to ignore spam complaints
> because they don't know english and don't understand the complaint. he
> does read english and can act as an interpreter for them. if he really
> cared about resolving the issue, he'd do something productive about it
>
2002 11:43
To: debian isp
Subject: Re: failure notice (about relays.osirusoft.com)
On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 01:24:04AM +0200, Marcin Sochacki wrote:
> For me it's obvious that Jason is right about Osirusoft's list being
> too restrictive about Asian hosts. Craig, please try to read th
On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 01:24:04AM +0200, Marcin Sochacki wrote:
> For me it's obvious that Jason is right about Osirusoft's list being
> too restrictive about Asian hosts. Craig, please try to read the
> message, which was repeated over and over by Jason: they block a huge
> HK netblock, not only
Craig and Jason,
I'm reading this thread and to be honest, I'm getting really tired
to get the same sentences repeated over and over by both of you.
It seems you just don't read the other's mail, instead just quickly
reply with counter-arguments. Please try to cooperate, or go somewhere
else to d
On Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 10:39:26AM -0500, Alex Borges wrote:
> > if you really cared about the issue, you'd be a lot more productive
> > if you spent your energies explaining to chinese-speaking sysadmins
> > what the spam problem is, why they've been black-listed and what
> > they can do to get of
>
> if you really cared about the issue, you'd be a lot more productive if
> you spent your energies explaining to chinese-speaking sysadmins what
> the spam problem is, why they've been black-listed and what they can do
> to get off the list. that would be far more effective than whining on
> e
On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:18, Jason Lim wrote:
> Its not justificaiton. But if TWO men kill people, why does it make it
> okay for the USA murder to go free, while the Asian murder gets the ax?
We are not talking about murder here, we are talking about blocking email
which is a far less serious matt
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Monday, August 19, 2002, at 09:04 , Jason Lim wrote:
The listing I am talking about has nothing to do with open relays.
An entire ISP comprising a lot of HK has been added privately to a
hidden
Osirusoft blacklist.
That's most excellent news, I'm gl
> On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 06:47, Nathan wrote:
> > > And besides... having those western legistative ppl... in Australia,
> > > USA,
> > > etc. acting like children, in front of everyone... is that really
> > > something to be proud of?
> >
> > Ugh, since when did this turn into a racist political d
> > > i think you're bring up irrelevancies. the fact that company A is
doing
> > > wrong is not justification for company B doing the same.
Its not justificaiton. But if TWO men kill people, why does it make it
okay for the USA murder to go free, while the Asian murder gets the ax?
> > > this
> if you really want to do something to help resolve the problem, then
> educate your countrymen about why running an open relay is a bad idea.
> get them to understand the problem and DO something about it. that will
> be far more productive and effective than simply whining about various
> RBLs
> if you really want to do something to help resolve the problem, then
> educate your countrymen about why running an open relay is a bad idea.
> get them to understand the problem and DO something about it. that will
> be far more productive and effective than simply whining about various
> RBLs
>
> > Ah... but if I had not brought this to light, would you have even
KNOWN
> > about what was happening? Also keep in mind... it was "mail sent FROM
> > the
> > USA THROUGH Asia). People in Asia have no interest in your Penis
> > Enhancements, Breast Enlargers, Free Trips to Vegas, 0% APR Credit
On Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 01:47:31PM +0900, Nathan wrote:
> On Monday, August 19, 2002, at 10:43 AM, Jason Lim wrote:
>
> >Well, Thank God the chinese CCCP (China) party meetings aren't like
> >that. Can you imagine 1000's of leaders of each province getting
> >into an "heated discussion" like that
On Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 11:51:16AM +1000, Jason Lim wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 10:57:35AM +1000, Jason Lim wrote:
> > > AND I REPEAT (since you didn't choose to reply to this):
> > > ---
> > > [blah blah blah]
> > >
> > > What do you think now?
> >
On Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 11:43:47AM +1000, Jason Lim wrote:
> In fact, if you block all of Asia altogether, you might get a lot less
> because USA spammers abusing Asian networks and servers won't get
> their spam to you.
you still don't get it.
while it's true that a lot of the spam that comes fr
On Monday, August 19, 2002, at 10:43 AM, Jason Lim wrote:
Well, Thank God the chinese CCCP (China) party meetings aren't like
that.
Can you imagine 1000's of leaders of each province getting into an
"heated
discussion" like that?
And besides... having those western legistative ppl... in Australi
On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 03:02, Jason Lim wrote:
> Blah... somehow I don't think this is going anywhere. USA and western
> spammers will continue to find fault in chinese networks and servers to
> kingdom come. Perhaps the chinese admins should block USA mail traffic
> altogether so USA and western spam
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 10:57:35AM +1000, Jason Lim wrote:
> > AND I REPEAT (since you didn't choose to reply to this):
> > ---
> > [blah blah blah]
> >
> > What do you think now?
>
> i think you're bring up irrelevancies. the fact that company A is doing
> > > Been there. Seen it. There are two sides to this issue, and when
> > > you put 'em both on the same news group, you'd better expect
> > > flames, especially when they are so totally diametrically opposed.
> >
> > This only supports my previous statment that telling people to go to
NANAE
>
On Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 10:57:35AM +1000, Jason Lim wrote:
> AND I REPEAT (since you didn't choose to reply to this):
> ---
> [blah blah blah]
>
> What do you think now?
i think you're bring up irrelevancies. the fact that company A is doing
wrong is not j
>
> > I suppose because I notice these things first I tend to be the
"bringer of
> > bad news" to people and hence get flamed most. Oh well.
>
> Why not bring the news to people who run those Asian ISPs?
>
Because i can't possibly start teaching hundreds... possibly thousands of
chinese net admin
>
> whether you like it or not, anyone can block email on their own servers
> using whatever criteria they choose. you do NOT have a right to have
> your mail accepted. nobody does. that choice rests with the recipient
> server.
Yeah... except many End-users don't know / not aware of what RBLs
On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 01:42, Jason Lim wrote:
> > When I get email in Chinese I just report it to SpamCop, if I've ever
> > received a Yiddish email I'm sure I did the same.
>
> Eeep... spam or not?
Mail in Chinese is considered spam until proven otherwise. There is no way
of proving otherwise...
On Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 02:23:11AM +1000, Jason Lim wrote:
> > says, and I quote, "Zentek (Jason Lim) is a spam-house, Iadvantage
> > tolerates spammers.
>
> Thats right... because I'm one of the first people to complain about
> this and probably the most vocal (and I'll continue to do so until
>
> Please take this conversation off debian-user. I'm not entirely sure why
> it ended up here, but it's quite off-topic.
Isn't the discussion of various RBLs and mail software on-topic?
Doesn't this affect debian users ability to receive email?
Would discussion of various anti-virus software be m
> >
> > (sorry for the long link... i couldn't find a way to make it much
> > shorter).
>
> http://www.makeashorterlink.com/ :-) -rt
>
Ah yes, I'll need to keep that one in mind next time. Thanks :-)
>
> > And you wonder why Chinese admins don't respond. What would YOU do if
you
> > got an email in Yiddish?
>
> When I get email in Chinese I just report it to SpamCop, if I've ever
> received a Yiddish email I'm sure I did the same.
Eeep... spam or not?
Nei how ma? ;-)
> Everyone who is doing
On Sun, Aug 18, 2002 at 07:54:14PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> Please take this conversation off debian-user. I'm not entirely sure
> why
> it ended up here, but it's quite off-topic.
I felt that a discussion of email block lists was, indeed, on topic.
Note the number of other discussions re: em
Please take this conversation off debian-user. I'm not entirely sure why
it ended up here, but it's quite off-topic.
Thanks,
--
Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
quot; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
;
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: failure notice (about relays.osirusoft.com)
> On Sun, Aug 18, 2002 at 05:27:00PM +1000, Jason Lim wrote:
> >
> > What I call a resolution method are those used by ORDB.org, SPAMCOP.net,
> > VISI.
On Sun, Aug 18, 2002 at 05:27:00PM +1000, Jason Lim wrote:
>
> What I call a resolution method are those used by ORDB.org, SPAMCOP.net,
> VISI.com, and plenty of other ones.
Around all day . . .
> > Which means, quite simply, that iAdvantage hosts spammers, and refuses
> > to remove them.
>
> I
On Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:30, Jason Lim wrote:
> Already have responded to it. I'm vocal about Western spammers abusing
> Asian networks and servers, and then having Asia blocked for it. Sure,
> fight people when they can't even speak English, and then wonder why they
> don't respond to english email.
> > So... if suppose for people that do not send email to/from Asia,
blocking
> > ALL of Asia off wouldn't make the slightest difference to them. So
hence
> > RBLs that block all of Asia may indeed block out a lot of spam because
> > American spammers are abusing the Asian servers/networks.
> >
> >
>
> Osirusoft is not a blocklist, it is just an aggregate of other lists.
Joe
> Jared is not listing you, he's simply distributing lists which do. If
you
> stop the spamming for which you are personally responsible, the
blocklist
> maintaners will remove your IP addresses from their lists.
Osirus
On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Russell Coker wrote:
> Also it would be good to see a response from you to Jules regarding the
> "Zentek (Jason Lim) is a spam-house, Iadvantage
> tolerates spammers" issue.
Actually, it wouldn't, at least not on debian-user, where it is WAY OT.
imo
Patrick
--
Patrick Wi
On Sun, 18 Aug 2002 16:55, Jason Lim wrote:
> > Large multinational firms get to choose their own policy for spam
> > blocking,
> > they don't let an ISP tell them what to do. All you need is a MD of a
> > company they do business with being unable to send an email to the MD of
> > their company a
> Large multinational firms get to choose their own policy for spam
blocking,
> they don't let an ISP tell them what to do. All you need is a MD of a
> company they do business with being unable to send an email to the MD of
> their company and heads will roll.
> If you want to persue your crusa
On Sun, 18 Aug 2002 16:00, Jason Lim wrote:
> > On Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:02, Jason Lim wrote:
> > > It was once said that it is better to let off 10 criminals than to put
> > > 1 innocent man in jail.
> > >
> > > You, on the other hand, suggest it is better to put 10 innocent men in
> > > jail for 1
At 12:27 08/18/2002 +1000, Jason Lim wrote:
>Because you are using the combined RBL relays.osirusoft.com, and since Joe
>Jared (single operator of relays.osirusoft) has a documented chip on his
>shoulder against Asia and iAdvantage
Osirusoft is not a blocklist, it is just an aggregate of other lis
Sincerely,
- Original Message -
From: "Russell Coker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jason Lim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: failure notice (about relays.osirusoft.com)
> On Sun, 1
On Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:02, Jason Lim wrote:
> As I said in a previous email:
>
> -
> It was once said that it is better to let off 10 criminals than to put 1
> innocent man in jail.
>
> You, on the other hand, suggest it is better to put 10 innocent men in
> jail for 1 crimi
> the same problem occurs for anyone unfortunate enough to use a clueless
> or spamhaus ISP. it's got NOTHING to do with the fact that it's asian.
> spamhaus and open relay ISP's *MUST* be blacklisted regardless of what
> continent they are on.
Then please... go ahead and block rackspace netbloc
On Sun, Aug 18, 2002 at 04:49:28PM +1200, thing wrote:
> what would be the feature syntax in sendmail.mc for using osirusoft
> please? im in NZ and sick to death of being spammed from asia
i'm not sure. it's been a few years since i used sendmail. my guess is
that it would be something like:
FE
On Sun, Aug 18, 2002 at 02:46:55PM +1000, Jason Lim wrote:
> > amusingly, however, you completely discredit your line of argument
> > by suggesting that bl.spamcop.net is a viable substitute.
> > bl.spamcop.net isn't even a good RBL let alone any kind of a
> > substitute for osirusoft, their moroni
> > >
> > > > SO... if you plan on receiving email from me or Asia, I suggest
you
> > use
> > > > RBLs with clear listing and removal policies and methods (eg. the
RBLs
> > I
> > > > listed above, and others),
> > >
> > > This is a good policy. Using DNSBL's that don't have some
> > > resolution
On Sun, Aug 18, 2002 at 02:42:24PM +1000, Jason Lim wrote:
> >
> > > SO... if you plan on receiving email from me or Asia, I suggest you
> use
> > > RBLs with clear listing and removal policies and methods (eg. the RBLs
> I
> > > listed above, and others),
> >
> > This is a good policy. Using DNSB
> >
> > I have communicated with Joe Jared on this (not using real
> > identification), and while I won't divulge the private communications
> > on a
> > public list, the general jist is "i don't get legit emails from Asia,
> > nor
> > do people that use my list. So I could block all of Asia and n
> you seem to have a chip on YOUR shoulder about the osirusoft RBLs. this
> is not the first time you have bitched about them in public.
Yes... yes I do. I will bitch about things that I see are bad, and try and
do things about it (like offer better alternatives). Perhaps you are one
to sit on
>
> > SO... if you plan on receiving email from me or Asia, I suggest you
use
> > RBLs with clear listing and removal policies and methods (eg. the RBLs
I
> > listed above, and others),
>
> This is a good policy. Using DNSBL's that don't have some
> resolution method for a black listing is risky.
what would be the feature syntax in sendmail.mc for using osirusoft please? im
in
NZ and sick to death of being spammed from asia
:]
regards
Thing
Craig Sanders wrote:
> you seem to have a chip on YOUR shoulder about the osirusoft RBLs. this
> is not the first time you have bitched about the
On Sun, Aug 18, 2002 at 12:27:08PM +1000, Jason Lim wrote:
> Dear Russel (and anyone else who is using relays.osirusoft.com),
>
> Because you are using the combined RBL relays.osirusoft.com, and since Joe
> Jared (single operator of relays.osirusoft) has a documented chip on his
> shoulder against
you seem to have a chip on YOUR shoulder about the osirusoft RBLs. this
is not the first time you have bitched about them in public.
amusingly, however, you completely discredit your line of argument by
suggesting that bl.spamcop.net is a viable substitute. bl.spamcop.net
isn't even a good RBL l
On Sun, Aug 18, 2002 at 12:27:08PM +1000, Jason Lim wrote:
> Dear Russel (and anyone else who is using relays.osirusoft.com),
> Jared (single operator of relays.osirusoft) has a documented chip on
> his
> shoulder against Asia and iAdvantage (upstream, one of the largest
...
>
> I have communica
Dear Russel (and anyone else who is using relays.osirusoft.com),
Because you are using the combined RBL relays.osirusoft.com, and since Joe
Jared (single operator of relays.osirusoft) has a documented chip on his
shoulder against Asia and iAdvantage (upstream, one of the largest
bandwidth carrier
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