On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 07:31:32PM +0200, Jochen Voss wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 11:53:50PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 01:48:21AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > Documentation good. Ad hockery bad.
> > That's your opinion, not mine, and not the word of God t
On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 01:07:23PM +1000, Herbert Xu wrote:
> Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> Further, /bin/bash is available and provides both type and test as
> >> builtins.
>
> > Bad news for any Debian port that wants to use ash as its Essential
> > shell, then.
>
> I hate
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 10:00:31PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> Branden> A list of criteria other than "just run for F in $(grep-available -F
> Branden> Essential -s Package yes | awk '{print $2}'); do dpkg -L $F | egrep
> Branden> '^/s?bin/.'; done", that is.
>
> Sounds like a fine c
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 11:37:40PM +0100, Stephen Stafford wrote:
> > | On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 03:13:23PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > | > If you're up to it, however, I would like to challenge you to implement
> > | > /usr/bin/tr(1) in /bin/sed(1). I few of us on IRC tried several days
> >
Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Further, /bin/bash is available and provides both type and test as
>> builtins.
> Bad news for any Debian port that wants to use ash as its Essential
> shell, then.
I hate to break it to you but all the shells that could potentially
serve as /bin/sh
>>"Jochen" == Jochen Voss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Jochen> Sorry Anthony, but are you really telling us that in your
Jochen> opinion not documenting technical things should be prefered
Jochen> to documenting them?
Having an explicit, separate documentation of technical things
that
>>"Branden" == Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Branden> You are oversimplifying my argument.
Branden> I did not ask solely for a list of commands. Alternatively,
Branden> I asked for a list of criteria that are determinative of
Branden> what sorts of tools Debian puts in /sbin a
On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 12:16:20AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> * Richard Braakman
>
> | On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 03:13:23PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> | > If you're up to it, however, I would like to challenge you to implement
> | > /usr/bin/tr(1) in /bin/sed(1). I few of us on IRC trie
* Richard Braakman
| On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 03:13:23PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
| > If you're up to it, however, I would like to challenge you to implement
| > /usr/bin/tr(1) in /bin/sed(1). I few of us on IRC tried several days
| > ago to do it, and concluded that it couldn't be done.
|
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 03:13:23PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> If you're up to it, however, I would like to challenge you to implement
> /usr/bin/tr(1) in /bin/sed(1). I few of us on IRC tried several days
> ago to do it, and concluded that it couldn't be done.
Did all of you manage to miss
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 02:17:12PM -0500, Steve Greenland wrote:
> It's not superfluous: if it's up to the developer, then they can move a
> binary from one to the other with no warning or discussion.
Not if that binary has its location specified in the FHS, which most
of the ones we're discussin
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 12:55:32PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> Nice polemics. But each side here has a modicum of logic on
> their side; Branden wants a nice, uncontroversial, black and white,
> writ in stone (well, may be not) list of commands available to
> maintainers of package
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 01:48:21AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> So, rather than establishing any guidelines for what they're going to
> "absolutely need", we'll just tell them that what they "absolutely need"
> is whatever happens to be in /bin or /sbin today.
> Translation: the intersection o
On 16-Jun-02, 12:55 (CDT), Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> (Superfluous how? just look at the contents of /bin and /sbin to
> determine whether to command is actually available that early in
> boot).
It's not superfluous: if it's up to the developer, then they can move a
binar
>>"ben" == ben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
[SNIPPED a whole lot of verbiage basically defending logic
over emotion]
Nice polemics. But each side here has a modicum of logic on
their side; Branden wants a nice, uncontroversial, black and white,
writ in stone (well, may
>>"Robbe" == Robert Bihlmeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Robbe> What POSIX utilities do you mean? (I don't have that standard handy.)
Robbe> SUSv[23] provide "command -v" as the standard way. Debian's ash and
Robbe> bash have this as a builtin, zsh (e.g) does not, and we neither have
Robbe>
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 11:53:50PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 01:48:21AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > Documentation good. Ad hockery bad.
> That's your opinion, not mine, and not the word of God that you make it
> out to be.
Sorry Anthony, but are you really telli
At 9:03 pm, Sunday, June 16 2002, Robert Bihlmeyer mumbled:
> $ ash -c "type test"
> test is a shell builtin
>
> ash and bash are AFAIK the only shells in /bin.
>
And you are incorrect.
zsh is in /usr/bin, and has in fact also been in /bin since 4.0.4-24. sash,
the statically linked shell in in
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 01:48:21AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 03:16:12PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 01:17:45PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > > So why waste everyone's time discussing it rather than just using sed
> > > > or /bin/sh a
* Robert Bihlmeyer
| SUSv[23] provide "command -v" as the standard way. Debian's ash and
| bash have this as a builtin, zsh (e.g) does not, and we neither have
| it in /bin nor /usr/bin.
zsh isn't posix.
| > > Further, /bin/bash is available and provides both type and test as
| > > builtins.
|
On Saturday 15 June 2002 11:48 pm, Branden Robinson wrote:
[snip]
first off, i've got to thank both of you for making me aware of the value of
sash, though i'd like to propose that it be made a part of any minimal
installation definition that may eventually arise as a synthesis of this
debate.
Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > If they're not in /usr, they're off-limits.
>
> As are the POSIX utilities for determining whether or not they're in
> /usr.
What POSIX utilities do you mean? (I don't have that standard handy.)
SUSv[23] provide "command -v" as the standard way.
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 03:16:12PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 01:17:45PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > So why waste everyone's time discussing it rather than just using sed
> > > or /bin/sh and getting on with your life?
> > Because this isn't just about me, and it
On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 01:17:45PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > So why waste everyone's time discussing it rather than just using sed
> > or /bin/sh and getting on with your life?
> Because this isn't just about me, and it isn't just about cut(1).[1]
cut was what was brought up. Do you reall
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