On Mon, May 07, 2012 at 08:05:33PM +0200, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
I agree that this should go out. Just, we have our community twice in
the text. punAny linguistic expertise with us we could possibly
welcome?/pun
LOL
Anyway, it sounds strange enough to me to suggest
substituting the
On Thu, May 03, 2012 at 12:32:03AM +0200, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
DRAFT TO BE VOTED STARTS HERE
The Debian Project welcomes and encourages participation by everyone.
It doesn't matter how you identify yourself or how others perceive you:
we welcome you. We welcome contributions
Original-Nachricht
Datum: Sun, 6 May 2012 23:23:23 -0700
Von: Steve Langasek vor...@debian.org
An: debian-project@lists.debian.org, debian-v...@lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: [Draft] GR: diversity statement for the Debian Project
On Thu, May 03, 2012 at 12:32:03AM +0200
Hi Steffen,
On Mon, May 07, 2012 at 10:18:28AM +0200, Steffen Möller wrote:
I agree that this should go out. Just, we have our community twice in
the text. punAny linguistic expertise with us we could possibly
welcome?/pun
LOL
Anyway, it sounds strange enough to me to suggest
Dear Debian Developers,
A recent discussion [1] on Debian Women mailing list made me realize that
the Debian Project, the community behind the *Universal* Operating
System, doesn't have a diversity statement.
The *technical* part of the project is already commited to diversity: we
don't accept
Ian Jackson ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk writes:
Francesca Ciceri writes (Diversity statement for the Debian Project):
So, I wrote a draft - mainly based on the one [4] created for Ubuntu by
Matt Zimmerman with the help of Mary Gardiner, Valerie Aurora and
Benjamin Mako Hill - and I'd like
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 09:47:04PM -0400, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
The message from Stefano Zacchiroli quoted below includes a wrap-up
(of the wrap-up (of the...)) about the statement on diversity in
contributors proposed by Francesca Ciceri.
Stefano asked to publish it in #669011, although the
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 09:25:21AM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 09:47:04PM -0400, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
The message from Stefano Zacchiroli quoted below includes a wrap-up
(of the wrap-up (of the...)) about the statement on diversity in
contributors proposed by
Hi Stefano,
Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 09:47:04PM -0400, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
The message from Stefano Zacchiroli quoted below includes a wrap-up
(of the wrap-up (of the...)) about the statement on diversity in
contributors proposed by Francesca Ciceri.
Stefano
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
Hi,
Le 12/04/2012 12:34, David Prévot a écrit :
If the issue is only for non native readers, an other way to address the
concern is to help proofreading translations in every language we
understand, in order to make sure the statement will be
Package: www.debian.org
Dear WWW Team,
as you're probably aware of, we've discussed on -project [1] the
proposal by Francesca Ciceri to publish a diversity statement for the
Debian Project. There seems to be consensus on the idea. A week ago [2]
I've anticipated that, as DPL, I'd have been
* Stefano Zacchiroli lea...@debian.org [2012-04-09 14:02:02 CEST]:
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 02:28:58PM +0100, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
So, I wrote a draft - mainly based on the one [4] created for Ubuntu
by Matt Zimmerman with the help of Mary Gardiner, Valerie Aurora
and Benjamin Mako Hill
On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 14:08:32 +0200, Gerfried Fuchs rho...@deb.at wrote:
* Stefano Zacchiroli lea...@debian.org [2012-04-09 14:02:02 CEST]:
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 02:28:58PM +0100, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
So, I wrote a draft - mainly based on the one [4] created for Ubuntu
by Matt
Phil wrote:
If it is deemed that the clarification is needed, then adding 'too' is
not the way to do it -- instead we could go for:
adding 'also' after 'we':
... technical in nature, we also value and encourage contributions ...
or perhaps adding 'as well' where you were suggesting
Hi,
Le 12/04/2012 12:22, Moray Allan a écrit :
Phil wrote:
Le 12/04/2012 08:08, Gerfried Fuchs a écrit :
Maybe I'm too picky, and you can base it on me not being a native
speaker - but then, most people that will read it might be non-native
speakers.
If it is deemed that the
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 02:28:58PM +0100, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
So, I wrote a draft - mainly based on the one [4] created for Ubuntu
by Matt Zimmerman with the help of Mary Gardiner, Valerie Aurora
and Benjamin Mako Hill - and I'd like to propose it to the DPL to be
official published.
But
On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 14:02:02 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
here is a wrap-up (of the wrap-up (of the...)) that Francesca has just
shared with me based on the last feedback on list.
The Debian Project welcomes and
Stefano Zacchiroli lea...@debian.org writes:
The Debian Project welcomes and encourages participation by everyone.
It doesn't matter how you identify yourself or how others perceive you:
we welcome you. We welcome
On Samstag, 7. April 2012, Enrico Zini wrote:
Moar nitpicking: s/define/perceive/g
I perceive this as very useful nit-picking.
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Archive:
On Thu, Apr 05, 2012 at 10:32:21PM +0200, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
It doesn't matter how you define yourself or how others define you:
we welcome you. We welcome contributions from everyone
Moar nitpicking: s/define/perceive/g
That gives: It doesn't matter how you perceive yourself or how
On Sat, Apr 07, 2012 at 12:23:21PM +0200, Enrico Zini wrote:
On Thu, Apr 05, 2012 at 10:32:21PM +0200, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
It doesn't matter how you define yourself or how others define you:
we welcome you. We welcome contributions from everyone
Moar nitpicking:
I am starting to enjoy this.
Original-Nachricht
Datum: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 11:03:07 +
Von: Luca Filipozzi lfili...@debian.org
An: debian-project@lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project
On Sat, Apr 07, 2012 at 12:23:21PM +0200, Enrico Zini
On Sat, Apr 07, 2012 at 06:57:47PM +0200, Steffen M?ller wrote:
I am starting to enjoy this.
On Sat, Apr 07, 2012 at 11:03:07PM +, Luca Filipozzi wrote:
On Sat, Apr 07, 2012 at 12:23:21PM +0200, Enrico Zini wrote:
On Thu, Apr 05, 2012 at 10:32:21PM +0200, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2012, Enrico Zini wrote:
I love how this is increasing in awesomeness as it is decreasing in
size.
Indeed.
I feel like suggesting two minor patches, labor limae if anything:
s/contributions to Debian/contributions/
s/expertise in other areas/expertise in other areas,/
Hi,
On Freitag, 6. April 2012, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
I love how this is increasing in awesomeness as it is decreasing in
size.
Indeed.
+1
Yes, it looks better with those small fixes.
+1
Thank you Francesca!
+1
cheers,
h03ger ;)
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On Fri, Apr 06, 2012 at 09:11:11AM +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
Francesca Ciceri madame...@debian.org writes:
-88-
The Debian Project welcomes and encourages participation by everyone.
It doesn't matter how you define
On Fri, 6 Apr 2012 00:03:50 +0200, Enrico Zini enr...@enricozini.org wrote:
On Thu, Apr 05, 2012 at 10:32:21PM +0200, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
The Debian Project welcomes and encourages participation by everyone.
It doesn't matter how you define yourself or how others define you:
we
Francesca Ciceri madame...@debian.org writes:
On Fri, Apr 06, 2012 at 09:11:11AM +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
Why the change from “contributions to the Project”? Debian is an
operating system, but I think our diversity statement should welcome
contributions to the Debian Project.
Sure. It
Yay!
Super-very-final draft below :)
I applied patches proposed by Stefano, Steffen, Luca and Ben (thanks!).
Cheers,
Francesca
-88-
The Debian Project welcomes and encourages participation by everyone.
It doesn't matter how you
On Thu, Apr 05, 2012 at 10:32:21PM +0200, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
The Debian Project welcomes and encourages participation by everyone.
It doesn't matter how you define yourself or how others define you:
we welcome you. We welcome contributions from everyone
as long as they interact
Francesca Ciceri madame...@debian.org writes:
-88-
The Debian Project welcomes and encourages participation by everyone.
It doesn't matter how you define yourself or how others define you: we
welcome you. We welcome
On 12-04-03 at 02:11pm, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
The Debian Project welcomes and encourages participation by everyone.
It doesn't matter how you define yourself or how others define you: we
welcome you. We welcome contributions from everyone within their areas
of expertise, as long as they can
Francesca Ciceri madame...@debian.org writes:
--- 8 --- 8
The Debian Project welcomes and encourages participation by everyone.
It doesn't matter how you define yourself or how others define you: we
welcome you. We welcome
Original-Nachricht
Datum: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 09:39:22 -0700
Von: Russ Allbery r...@debian.org
An: debian-project@lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project
Francesca Ciceri madame...@debian.org writes:
--- 8 --- 8
Original-Nachricht
Datum: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 17:23:57 +
Von: Luca Filipozzi lfili...@debian.org
An: debian-project@lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project
On Tue, Apr 03, 2012 at 07:05:57PM +0200, Steffen M?ller wrote:
Francesca Ciceri
Thank you for persisting with this job, Francesca.
Francesca Ciceri madame...@debian.org writes:
The Debian Project welcomes and encourages participation by everyone.
It doesn't matter how you define yourself or how others define you: we
welcome you. We welcome contributions from everyone
On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 13:09:40 +0900, Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org wrote:
...
I think that this is important that, when considering joining Debian,
contributors can be reassured that they will not be put a sticker on their
head
by others. This dicussion tends to the contrary.
My point
with interest this
discussion. Many thanks to Francesca and the other Debian Women ML
participants for this proposal.
I'm very much in favor of having a diversity statement for the Debian
Project.
I concur with most of the very good reasons which have been mentioned in
this thread for having one, so
Stefano Zacchiroli lea...@debian.org writes:
The long list of features we do not discriminate upon, in
particular, seems to be contentious. TBH, I don't find it particularly
inspiring either, while the rest of the text is.
Part of the cause of that problem, it seems to me, is that today's
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 19:07:33 -0400, Kevin Mark kevin.m...@verizon.net wrote:
If we say we accept people of all races or that we dont discriminate
based on race, then we are not the ones who are going to discriminate,
and this is a good thing and is welcoming.
Well, except for the fact that by
Hello,
Original-Nachricht
Datum: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 13:43:46 -0400
Von: Kevin Mark kevin.m...@verizon.net
An: Philip Hands p...@hands.com
CC: Kevin Mark kevin.m...@verizon.net, debian-project@lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project
On Sun
@lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project
On Sun, Apr 01, 2012 at 11:59:01AM +0100, Philip Hands wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 19:07:33 -0400, Kevin Mark kevin.m...@verizon.net
wrote:
If we say we accept people of all races or that we dont discriminate
based on race
Le Sun, Apr 01, 2012 at 11:11:37PM -0400, Kevin Mark a écrit :
If you look at the statistical makeup of the humans that contribute and
examine
the components of identity that they consider themselves, you'll find lots of
people who would be male, hetronormative, american/european, caucasian
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 05:53:48PM +0100, Mark Brown wrote:
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 04:40:58PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
On 12-03-27 at 03:45pm, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
Yes, I agree on accuracy. But please, note that neurotype - even if
it hasn't scientific recognition as concept
On 23/03/12 14:56, Ian Jackson wrote:
What does honouring diversity actually mean ?
Precisely the same question, for what I suspect are pretty similar
reasons, has just come up in the context of a proposal that the Mozilla
project adopt the Ubuntu CoC.
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 06:41:15 +0100, Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk wrote:
On Thu, 2012-03-29 at 14:10 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
Francesca Ciceri madame...@debian.org writes:
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 08:42:28AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
We should not commit to respecting opinions, but
On Tue, 27 Mar 2012, Jose Luis Rivas wrote:
If is proposed to GR as it is written now, I will most probably vote
against it too. I thought the diversity statement was to let everybody
know they were welcome to work in the project, not that they have to
think in certain way nor we will have yet
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 04:40:58PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
On 12-03-27 at 03:45pm, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
Yes, I agree on accuracy. But please, note that neurotype - even if
it hasn't scientific recognition as concept - is the way some people
define themselves. And we must
Russ Allbery r...@debian.org writes:
The first step in being diverse is being *aware*. You cannot be aware
when you're blind.
And, just to point out how hard this is, as well as to further illustrate
the general point that any post pointing out a spelling error contains at
least one spelling
Francesca Ciceri madame...@debian.org writes:
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 08:42:28AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
We should not commit to respecting opinions, but instead commit to
respecting all people.
How do you suggest to express it in the statement?
That depends on the context of the
Ben Finney ben+deb...@benfinney.id.au writes:
For distinguishing the respect for opinion versus respect for the people
who hold them, perhaps this:
We value healthy discussion and debate of all opinions, no matter
who holds them. Ideas are always a valid target of criticism, and we
Russ Allbery r...@debian.org writes:
I have to admit that doesn't particularly fill me with joy [for
various specific reasons]. […] I know what you mean, and I agree with
it, but I think it also has some failure modes that we've suffered
from in the past.
Yes, I accept those criticisms of my
On Thu, 2012-03-29 at 14:10 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
Francesca Ciceri madame...@debian.org writes:
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 08:42:28AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
We should not commit to respecting opinions, but instead commit to
respecting all people.
How do you suggest to express it
Gunnar Wolf gw...@gwolf.org
[...] if debian-women as re-formed today, it would probably be called
debian-inclusiveness or something like that. It just does not stop at
welcoming women and making Debian a gender-agnostic place.
So rename it?
And, guys and girls in d-women, you are for me one
[Scott Kitterman, 2012-03-27]
We can always be accepting of people of any opinion. Trying to decide if
someone is having 'correct' thoughts to be in Debian is wrong. The focus
should be on what people do (and communication is one aspect of doing).
+1
FWIW: I will vote against the
On 12-03-27 at 03:45pm, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 09:15:30AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
More of a detail, but for the neurotypes, I think that it is
important to leave this out. On debian-devel, we have to be
accurate when we discuss about things (like init
MJ Ray m...@phonecoop.coop writes:
Anyway, it's disappointing that only this point attracted any attention
and the more urgent points either side (who will enforce it?
You don't enforce a diversity statement. That's not the point. It's an
aspirational statement of ideals, not a policy. If
On 03/27/2012 09:53 AM, Piotr Ożarowski wrote:
[Scott Kitterman, 2012-03-27]
We can always be accepting of people of any opinion. Trying to decide if
someone is having 'correct' thoughts to be in Debian is wrong. The focus
should be on what people do (and communication is one aspect of
Francesca Ciceri madame...@debian.org
a recent discussion [1] on Debian Women mailing list made me realize that
the Debian Project, the *Universal* Operating System, doesn't have a
diversity statement [2].
I have three worries:
1. what's the point? What will actually change as a result of
Hi,
first of all let me say a *big thank you* for who took a moment (or more)
to think about this proposal, criticizing the form of it, reviewing it,
sending patches and fixes, asking for clarifications or providing them.
And not only in this thread but also in IRC and via private mails.
Even if
On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 05:31:35PM +0200, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
Hi,
first of all let me say a *big thank you* for who took a moment (or more)
to think about this proposal, criticizing the form of it, reviewing it,
sending patches and fixes, asking for clarifications or providing them.
And
Russ Allbery wrote:
I think, rather than saying that we won't discriminate on the basis of
something like technical ability, we should instead say something along
the lines of:
We welcome contributions from everyone within their areas of
particular expertise. While much of the work
On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 09:49:34AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
gregor herrmann gre...@debian.org writes:
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 20:38:39 +0100, Enrico Zini wrote:
I can think of another thing that we care about, which I don't see
mentioned here: We expect people to be constructive members
On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 01:31:07PM +0100, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
It happens that we've got LGBT, many racial backgrounds, both biological
sexes, all gender identities,
people from many language backgrounds, people with disabilities, people of
all religious beliefs
and people who have
On 03/23/2012 09:36 PM, Charles Plessy wrote:
Le Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 02:28:58PM +0100, Francesca Ciceri a écrit :
A diversity statement is a document expliciting something really
important: that everyone (no matter of gender identity or expression,
race, ethnicity, size, nationality, sexual
On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Charles Plessy wrote:
In summary, I would much prefer a short statement, where writing everyone is
enough to mean everyone. I think that a variation of the following
paragraph
proposed by Russ, perhaps complemented by a comment about the DFSG, is enough.
Hi all,
a recent discussion [1] on Debian Women mailing list made me realize that
the Debian Project, the *Universal* Operating System, doesn't have a
diversity statement [2].
Yet. :)
A diversity statement is a document expliciting something really
important: that everyone (no matter of gender
* Francesca Ciceri madame...@debian.org, 2012-03-23, 14:28:
Although this list cannot be exhaustive, we explicitly honour diversity
in age, culture, ethnicity, genotype, gender identity or expression,
language, national origin, neurotype, phenotype, political beliefs,
profession, race,
Ian Jackson ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk writes:
There are other kinds of ability besides technical ability. All of
those useful activities you mentioned depend on the ability of the
people doing them. And it is right and proper that when we choose with
whom we do these things, we should
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 02:28:58PM +0100, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
But I'd also like to have some inputs from you all, on it.
Since one of my responsibilities in Debian is to actually discriminate
people, I feel like I should contribute :)
I like your idea. Such a statement is IMO a direct
* gregor herrmann gre...@debian.org, 2012-03-23, 21:07:
And I think we are also not open to people who don't share these
values, e.g. people with a racist, sexist, ... behaviour.
Why?
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Joerg Jaspert jo...@debian.org writes:
On 12794 March 1977, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
a recent discussion [1] on Debian Women mailing list made me realize
that the Debian Project, the *Universal* Operating System, doesn't have
a diversity statement [2].
Why do we need such a statement? Are we
Jakub Wilk jw...@debian.org writes:
* gregor herrmann gre...@debian.org, 2012-03-23, 21:07:
And I think we are also not open to people who don't share these
values, e.g. people with a racist, sexist, ... behaviour.
Why?
You can't have an open and welcoming environment if you're open to
gregor herrmann gre...@debian.org writes:
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 20:38:39 +0100, Enrico Zini wrote:
I can think of another thing that we care about, which I don't see
mentioned here: We expect people to be constructive members of the
community.
Agreed.
And I think we are also not open to
Francesca Ciceri madame...@debian.org writes:
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 02:56:21PM +, Ian Jackson wrote:
I think we should make it clear that our aim is that participation
in the development of Debian should be equally open to all,
discriminating only on the basis of people's ability and
Ben Finney ben+deb...@benfinney.id.au writes:
That gets to another troubling part of the draft: Are there not some
political opinions, even some religions, that we should discriminate
against as being detrimental to the goal of a universal operating
system?
Meh. Yes, sort of, I guess, but
Russ Allbery r...@debian.org writes:
You can't have an open and welcoming environment if you're open to
people who work to make the environment non-welcoming to others. It
is, like most things in life, a balance.
Yes. This is why I'm troubled by the blanket welcome to opinions, like
political
On 03/23/12 15:28, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
So, I wrote a draft - mainly based on the one [4] created for Ubuntu
by Matt Zimmerman with the help of Mary Gardiner, Valerie Aurora
and Benjamin Mako Hill - and I'd like to propose it to the DPL to be
official published.
Thanks for doing this.
Le Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 02:28:58PM +0100, Francesca Ciceri a écrit :
A diversity statement is a document expliciting something really
important: that everyone (no matter of gender identity or expression,
race, ethnicity, size, nationality, sexual orientation, ability level,
neurotype,
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