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Kalle Kivimaa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...] the Finnish Red Cross, which
has a staff of a two hundred or so paid workers in addition to the
thousands of volunteers. There are very few conflicts between the
volunteers and the paid staff [...]
Did the Finnish Red Cross change from just
MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Did the Finnish Red Cross change from just volunteers to volunteers
and paid staff? If so, how?
I don't know the history of the FRC that well. I do know that there
have been paid staff for at least 50 years.
Unsurprisingly, I don't think FRC publish that info
Kalle Kivimaa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Did the Finnish Red Cross change from just volunteers to volunteers
and paid staff? If so, how?
I don't know the history of the FRC that well. I do know that there
have been paid staff for at least 50 years.
It seems
On Sun, Dec 24, 2006 at 03:20:07AM +0100, gregor herrmann wrote:
IMO the real question is how we as the Debian community cope with
the social system called Debian, especially with the issue of
organziational change. -- And from my POV it would be helpful if
either those techies who have
gregor herrmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Why? Because not only my personal experience in NPOs but also the
scientific literature on this subject show that a mix of paid staff
and volunteers in an organization/project leads to
disagreement/conflicts; and that introducing organzational changes
On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 11:29:21 +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote:
Why? Because not only my personal experience in NPOs but also the
scientific literature on this subject show that a mix of paid staff
and volunteers in an organization/project leads to
disagreement/conflicts;
This is not a certain
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 02:10:32 +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
Thanks for presenting your thoughts.
I'm going to make a few remarks on a meta level:
- Debian shouldn't do funding of Debian work for various reasons,
that add up to it not having the support of the developer body
[..]
On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 03:32:16PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 01:24:32PM +, MJ Ray wrote:
Actually, I believe you'll find that that wasn't even put forward as a
metric for the experiment.
In your own words, the experiment was to allocate sufficient funds so
whatever. you're all amazing.
a grateful debian newcomer
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Mike Hommey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Given this isn't a DPL funding initiative, I think you're way off base.
It's not only because you subtly outsourced it.
subtly ? HAHAHAHAHAHA.
JB.
--
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Public key available on
Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au wrote:
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 01:24:32PM +, MJ Ray wrote:
Actually, I believe you'll find that that wasn't even put forward as a
metric for the experiment.
I didn't write that.
In your own words, the experiment was to allocate sufficient funds
On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 08:40:41AM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
I would further expect that you didn't try to pollute the experiment result
with stuff like the mail starting this thread. From the tone of that mail, it
indicated clearly that for you the experiment was over, and that you called
for
On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 12:48:16AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 08:40:41AM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
I would further expect that you didn't try to pollute the experiment result
with stuff like the mail starting this thread. From the tone of that mail,
it
indicated
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 05:37:23PM -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 07:58:50PM +0100, Mike Hommey wrote:
Which is why we release with gnome 2.14.
I don't understand. Do you consider this to be a good thing or a bad
thing?
As current gnome is 2.16, probably
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006, Mike Hommey wrote:
Which is why we release with gnome 2.14.
Actually, we cherry-picked some good 2.16 modules as well; nothing like
the full desktop, but still worth mentioning.
--
Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Forget your stupid theme park! I'm gonna make my own! With
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 12:11:19PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 11:59:24AM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
One thing you could do is to end *NOW* the experiment,
Can you please roughly outline what is going to happen when the
experiment is continued until its scheduled end,
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 08:38:05AM +0100, Alexis Sukrieh wrote:
1. Paying Debian Developers seems to make (some of) them completely
humorless, everything is taken a hundred percent seriously, as if the
dollars in their pockets droped their fun hability. That's a pitty.
Ah, the It's just
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 12:30:16PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 12:11:19PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 11:59:24AM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
One thing you could do is to end *NOW* the experiment,
Can you please roughly outline what is going to
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 01:00:38PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
As far as I remember, the experiment has two steps, paying Steve for a
month and paying Andi for a month. Steve's month is already over, and
Andi is like in his third week. So - again - as far as I remember
there is only one week of
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 01:21:35PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
Like said, the experiment will finish once it is officially finished, and once
the analysis has been done, and the final report result is published. Given
the impact of long-term demotivation, you can thus not expect the experiment
I would be interested in the difference of the two action lists.
Well, the experiment is flawed [...]
Let me ask again: What is going to happen when the experiment is
continued? [...]
Sven Luther, 2006-12-13 13:21:35 +0100 :
How are you going to measure the long-term demotivation
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 10:40:25PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 01:00:38PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
As far as I remember, the experiment has two steps, paying Steve for a
month and paying Andi for a month. Steve's month is already over, and
Andi is like in his third
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 01:48:45PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 01:21:35PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
Like said, the experiment will finish once it is officially finished, and
once
the analysis has been done, and the final report result is published. Given
the impact
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 02:09:54PM +0100, Roland Mas wrote:
I would be interested in the difference of the two action lists.
Well, the experiment is flawed [...]
Let me ask again: What is going to happen when the experiment is
continued? [...]
Sven Luther, 2006-12-13 13:21:35
Sven Luther dijo [Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 11:53:52AM +0100]:
Which is why we release with gnome 2.14.
I don't understand. Do you consider this to be a good thing or a bad
thing?
As current gnome is 2.16, probably 2.18 before etch is released, i guess he
means we are already shiping
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 10:47:26AM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
Sven Luther dijo [Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 11:53:52AM +0100]:
Which is why we release with gnome 2.14.
I don't understand. Do you consider this to be a good thing or a bad
thing?
As current gnome is 2.16, probably 2.18
Sven Luther dijo [Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 01:21:35PM +0100]:
How are you going to measure the long-term demotivation which results from the
experiment ? How are you going to measure the already happened demotivation ?
How are you going to guarantee that the previously demotivated folk who
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 04:02:53PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
Personally, I'd say that now would be the time for any anti-payment
people to say we can do this better, and look, we'll prove it, and make
up their own target date for etch, and demonstrate how much energy and
effort can be
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006, Riku Voipio wrote:
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 08:38:05AM +0100, Alexis Sukrieh wrote:
1. Paying Debian Developers seems to make (some of) them completely
humorless, everything is taken a hundred percent seriously, as if the
dollars in their pockets droped their fun
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 12:04:04PM +0100, Amaya wrote:
Marc Haber wrote:
Otoh, I see a truckload of unpaid DDs vituperating and spreading bad
mood around the project. _That's_ the real harm that was caused - very
indirectly - by dunctank.
I tend to agree with you.
Real experiments
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 01:24:32PM +, MJ Ray wrote:
Actually, I believe you'll find that that wasn't even put forward as a
metric for the experiment.
In your own words, the experiment was to allocate sufficient funds so
that Steve Langasek and Andreas Barth can dedicate a month each to
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 02:17:35PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
[...] Personally, I don't consider the experiment over
'til all those loose ends are tied up; and it could easily turn out that
the logistical issues alone are enough of a problem to make this sort
of endeavour not worth the
On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 03:32:16PM +1000, Anthony Towns
aj@azure.humbug.org.au wrote:
Given this isn't a DPL funding initiative, I think you're way off base.
It's not only because you subtly outsourced it.
Mike
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On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 03:33:49PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 02:17:35PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
[...] Personally, I don't consider the experiment over
'til all those loose ends are tied up; and it could easily turn out that
the logistical issues alone are
Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au wrote:
Personally, I'd say that now would be the time for any anti-payment
people to say we can do this better, and look, we'll prove it, and make
up their own target date for etch, and demonstrate how much energy and
Now if only you could understand that
Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au wrote:
Now if only you could understand that we don't give a shit about the
release date, that would be a great step forward.
Only quality matters.
Quality is not, and has never been, the question.
Given how one of the two release managers treated some
Anthony Towns wrote:
Personally, I'd say that now would be the time for any anti-payment
people to say we can do this better, and look, we'll prove it, and make
up their own target date for etch, and demonstrate how much energy and
I hereby set December 6th 2007 as release date. With help of
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 09:11:31AM +0100, Julien BLACHE wrote:
Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au wrote:
Personally, I'd say that now would be the time for any anti-payment
people to say we can do this better, and look, we'll prove it, and make
up their own target date for etch, and
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 05:47:53PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 08:38:05AM +0100, Alexis Sukrieh wrote:
Anthony Towns a ?crit :
Personally, I'd say that now would be the time for any anti-payment
people to say we can do this better, and look, we'll prove it, and make
Marc Haber a écrit :
Otoh, I see a truckload of unpaid DDs vituperating and spreading bad
mood around the project. _That's_ the real harm that was caused - very
indirectly - by dunctank.
Ok, so you want to count bad-mood seeds?
Telling what is an appropriate behaviour or not - just as if
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 06:15:03PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 09:11:31AM +0100, Julien BLACHE wrote:
Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au wrote:
Personally, I'd say that now would be the time for any anti-payment
people to say we can do this better, and look,
Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au wrote: [...]
It might be that many of
the anti-payment people are actually also just not that interested in
getting the release out (or are even opposed to it), though. And I've
been told they're probably too cynical to try something like the above
anyway,
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006, Anthony Towns wrote:
Personally, I'd say that now would be the time for any anti-payment
people to say we can do this better, and look, we'll prove it, and make
up their own target date for etch, and demonstrate how much energy and
effort can be mustered just by having a
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 09:56:33AM +, MJ Ray wrote:
In the context of an experiment to
find out whether paying people to do Debian work can be useful, it'd
certainly provide some useful information as to whether there are better
alternatives for encouraging contributions and getting
Marc Haber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Now if only you could understand that we don't give a shit about the
release date, that would be a great step forward.
Only quality matters.
Kindly speak for yourself. I happen to give a shit about the release
I speak for (most of) the so-called
Anthony Towns wrote
Personally, I'd say that now would be the time for any anti-payment
people to say we can do this better, and look, we'll prove it
I've been told they're probably too cynical to try...
Well, one of the main criticisms against the experiment was that it might
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 12:11:07PM +0100, Sam Hocevar wrote:
It looks to me that you are now asking others to set up the
experimental protocol you failed to deliver when the experiment was
being discussed. As of now, anything that might happen can be reused for
a Dunc-Tank PR explaining how
Anthony Towns wrote:
As far as any hypothetical PR is concerned, vocal critics of the
Dunc-Tank procedure declined to contribute any effort to getting the
release out sooner, even to demonstrate how effective Debian can be in
the absence of paid work seems like it would be entirely sufficient.
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 06:15:03PM +1000, Anthony Towns
aj@azure.humbug.org.au wrote:
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 09:11:31AM +0100, Julien BLACHE wrote:
Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au wrote:
Personally, I'd say that now would be the time for any anti-payment
people to say we can do
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 07:58:50PM +0100, Mike Hommey wrote:
Which is why we release with gnome 2.14.
I don't understand. Do you consider this to be a good thing or a bad
thing?
Regards,
-Roberto
--
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com
Russ Allbery a écrit :
Hi, would like to know which day of December will be launched and
version of the Debian Etch Stable.
So would we. :)
The only answer we can give you is when it's ready, which may or may not
be in December.
If I were a troll-feeder, I would say that you can wait
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006, Anthony Towns wrote:
Personally, I'd say that now would be the time for any anti-payment
people to say we can do this better, and look, we'll prove it, and make
up their own target date for etch, and demonstrate how much energy and
effort can be mustered just by having a
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 08:38:05AM +0100, Alexis Sukrieh wrote:
Anthony Towns a ?crit :
Personally, I'd say that now would be the time for any anti-payment
people to say we can do this better, and look, we'll prove it, and make
up their own target date for etch, and demonstrate how much energy
João Henrique Furtado [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi, would like to know which day of December will be launched and
version of the Debian Etch Stable.
So would we. :)
The only answer we can give you is when it's ready, which may or may not
be in December.
--
Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
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