Re: Where are the man pages for the C library?

2002-01-01 Thread Eric G . Miller
On Tue, 1 Jan 2002 14:50:30 -0600 (CST), Jor-el [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I can find the man pages for things like strcpy, printf, and things like that on my system. I installed the glibc6-doc but that only had info documentation in it. Where are these man pages to be found?

Re: X setup problem? connection to :0,0 refused by server

2002-01-01 Thread Paul Scott
Paul Scott wrote: Shawn Lamson wrote: From: Paul Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: X setup problem? connection to :0,0 refused by server When I attempt emacs /etc/init.d/networking from xterm I get connection to :0,0 refused by server It works from a virtual terminal. are you sure you

(Fwd) Re: Lost in apt-get

2002-01-01 Thread Matt Chipman
On 1 Jan 2002 at 14:41, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Im still a little confused with some aspects of apt-get and would like to see if someone could orient me a little, either pointing me to some URLs , or answering briefly... I dont quite get it, lets say i apt-get install a

Re: X setup problem? connection to :0,0 refused by server

2002-01-01 Thread Paul Scott
Paul Scott wrote: Shawn Lamson wrote: From: Paul Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: X setup problem? connection to :0,0 refused by server When I attempt emacs /etc/init.d/networking from xterm I get connection to :0,0 refused by server It works from a virtual terminal. are you sure

Re: How to limit network traffic?

2002-01-01 Thread Greg Madden
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 January 2002 10:45 am, Andreas Maresch wrote: Hello! I have a small problem. I want to download some (debian) cd's. With my isdn-connection, one cd takes ~ 1 day to download. That is no problem. The problem is, debian is so

Re: How to limit network traffic?

2002-01-01 Thread Matt Chipman
I have a small problem. I want to download some (debian) cd's. With my isdn-connection, one cd takes ~ 1 day to download. That is no problem. The problem is, debian is so efficient in networking that the download uses 100% of the capability of my internet connection. IPchains can

No Users sound after compiling 2.4.17

2002-01-01 Thread techlists
Ok, when I originally set up the system it was potato and everything worked fine. Sound worked for root and my user.(so I know it's not a group problem.) I upgraded to woody, still everything worked fine. The card is a Soundblaster pci 128, and I used the es1370 module, and it worked. Then I

ADAPTEC 2040U2W PROBLEM (nothing helps...)

2002-01-01 Thread JM Vainio
- Original Message - From: Paul Mackinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 10:37 PM Subject: Re: ADAPTEC 2040U2W PROBLEM nate muttered: quote who=JM Vainio Hello! scsi bus is being reset for host 0 channel 0. scsi host 0

Re: Trying to install Sun's Java2 Runtime

2002-01-01 Thread Hanasaki JiJi
It's running fine for me :) The below is from 1.4B2 but I had 1.3.x running fine prior. What specifically do you observer when it doesn't work? Send the output of errors and what you entered to the debian-user list. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[52]~ java -version java version 1.4.0-beta2 Java(TM) 2

X Install problems-Re-Install X only ?

2002-01-01 Thread lee
Hi Folks, I've now got myself a copy of the 4 binary cd's,the 2.2_r4 version. I made it to the point of configging x where upon the install went badly wrong. It found my video card well enough ( an nvidia tnt2 m64 something w/32 mg o' ram :-)...it's an agp card.. the motherboard is a K7S5A

Re: Trying to install Sun's Java2 Runtime

2002-01-01 Thread Pontus Edvardsson
Thanks! It works beautifully! :) So much easier than the other approach... Pontus On Tuesday 01 January 2002 21.50, dman wrote: On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 09:24:52PM +0100, Pontus Edvardsson wrote: | Hi, | | I'm on Woody, kernel 2.4.17 and have been trying to install the Java2 | Runtime v1.3.1

Re: VIM features

2002-01-01 Thread Wichert Akkerman
Previously Caleb Shay wrote: I second this. For example, at the bottom of /etc/vim/vimrc there are several lines commented out as they cause vim to behave a lot different from regular vi. However, as was pointed out below, vim is NOT the default vi when you install, so why not enable some

Re: C Manual

2002-01-01 Thread Paul Scott
Eric G. Miller wrote: On Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:48:08 -0800 (PST), Jeffrey W. Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, dman wrote: On Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 09:31:36AM -0800, Paul Mackinney wrote: | Gary Turner muttered: | On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:11:33 -0500, Phil Beder wrote: |

Compiling kernel 2.4.16 error please help

2002-01-01 Thread D.
I'm running Woody with currently kernel-2.4.9 and I'm trying to build kernel-2.4.16 with kpkg-make. I tried to use the config-2.4.9 that I am currently using but it gave me a ton of error's sbout USB so I did the make xconfig and selected/deselected the things that I needed/didn't need and it

xscreensaver requires manual activation

2002-01-01 Thread Nori Heikkinen
(potato, 2.4.9) running xscreensaver but it hasn't for some time started up by itself when i start X. it says it is: orange:~ xscreensaver xscreensaver: already running on display :0.0 (window 0x81) from process 432 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). but the screen just blanks out after five minutes

Re: wwwoffle loading Newbie #61

2002-01-01 Thread Brenda J. Butler
On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 09:14:39PM +, Pollywog wrote: On 2001.12.30 20:21 Ian Balchin wrote: Hi, My default installation, console mode only, installed woffle. [EMAIL PROTECTED] suggested that I change the names in the /etc/rc?.d files from, say, @S20wwwoffle to, say,

Local imap from remote pop

2002-01-01 Thread Michael D. Crawford
I have accounts on several servers at my hosting service. I normally read my mail via ssh and elm. I would like to download my mail via POP and read it off a server in my house using IMAP. Is it possible to do what I want, and can you tell me the basics of what I will need to do? I've

Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)

2002-01-01 Thread David Teague
William, Richard, and all: Stroustrup has said that if you find you have to cast, (much) your design is flawed. --David Teague On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, William T Wilson wrote: On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Richard Cobbe wrote: | Casting you can't really get away from nor do you really need to. In

Re: wwwoffle loading Newbie #61

2002-01-01 Thread Pollywog
On 2002.01.01 21:45 Brenda J. Butler wrote: On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 09:14:39PM +, Pollywog wrote: On 2001.12.30 20:21 Ian Balchin wrote: Put this in the script /etc/init.d/wwwoffle on a line by itself, after the line that has #!/bin/sh exit 0 OR, preferably, remove the startup

Re: Problem with libdvdread

2002-01-01 Thread Alan Chandler
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 31 December 2001 1:00 pm, I wrote: I am having a problem with libdvdread in that it is failing to find the video_ts.info file - the error message after being started by mplayer is shown below. Sorry to reply to my own post, but I seem

Upgrade potato - woody

2002-01-01 Thread William Burrow
It seems that after completing the upgrade from potato to woody, that X was completely unusable. After a few hours searching around for the appropriate package, downloading and installing, I got X working again. I am wondering if anybody has had this problem and filed a bug report on it yet?

Re: When will Woody be thawed ?

2002-01-01 Thread David Teague
Hi David We installed Potato pre Beta in Jan 2000 I ran it until late last November when we upgraded to Woody pre Beta. Never been sorry. Rock solid I suspect if you are running a server, run Potato. To paraphrase somebody, Potato is out of date, but stable Woody is broken in a few respects

Re: apt-get segmentation fault

2002-01-01 Thread Shaul Karl
Some time ago I started and aborted an upgrade of some packages via FTP. Now everytime I try to install or update the list of available packages I get a Segmentation Fault. dpkg --yet-to-unpack shows that there are 89 packages marked for installation (many more than the five or six I really

Re: Must I have an `alias char-major-14 off' line?

2002-01-01 Thread Shaul Karl
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 01:21:09PM +0200, Shaul Karl wrote: | Yet I wonder why do I get these lines in the first place? In | particular, I have the following in /etc/modules.conf: | | # alias char-major-14 sb | # options adlib_card io=0x388

Re: ADAPTEC 2040U2W PROBLEM

2002-01-01 Thread Paul Mackinney
JM Vainio muttered: - Original Message - From: Paul Mackinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 10:37 PM Subject: Re: ADAPTEC 2040U2W PROBLEM nate muttered: quote who=JM Vainio Hello! scsi bus is being reset for

cerecord for testing compliled with 2.4 kernel?

2002-01-01 Thread Ed Lawson
Recently updated my testing box and got a message it was compiled with 2.4 kerenl and would not work under 2.2 kernel. Indeed I now get an error message related to /dev/zero. Why would a package for testing be compiled under 2.4 when that is not the base kernel for testing? I do not think

Re: xscreensaver requires manual activation

2002-01-01 Thread dman
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 05:24:12PM -0600, Nori Heikkinen wrote: | (potato, 2.4.9) | running xscreensaver but it hasn't for some time started up by itself | when i start X. it says it is: | | orange:~ xscreensaver | xscreensaver: already running on display :0.0 (window 0x81) | from process

Re: Must I have an `alias char-major-14 off' line?

2002-01-01 Thread dman
On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 02:28:05AM +0200, Shaul Karl wrote: | On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 01:21:09PM +0200, Shaul Karl wrote: | | | Yet I wonder why do I get these lines in the first place? In | | particular, I have the following in /etc/modules.conf: | | | | # alias char-major-14

Re: cerecord for testing compliled with 2.4 kernel?

2002-01-01 Thread Sean
The author seems to think that using a precompiled binary for cdrecord is asking for problems /usr/doc/cdrecord/README.linux.gz You might consider doing an apt-get source cdrecord Sean On Tue, 1 Jan 2002 10:05:33 -0500 Ed Lawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently updated my testing box

Re: How can I get the Euro symbol?

2002-01-01 Thread Phillip Deackes
On Tue, 1 Jan 2002 16:15:42 -0500 dman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is 'language-env'. According to 'apt-cache policy' I don't think it is in potato. (potato is _really_ _really_ old) Many thanks, dman. What you have written makes sense to me - I shall read it over the next day or so and

KDE - lpr clash

2002-01-01 Thread Carlos Sousa
On my system, KDE applications that use the centralized KDE printing facilities cannot print. Printing from Konqueror, for instance, generates an error saying /usr/bin/lpr -P 'lp' '-#1' somefile failed I've managed to track this down to my lpr command not accepting the command-line

Re: wwwoffle loading Newbie #61

2002-01-01 Thread Colin Watson
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 04:45:12PM -0500, Brenda J. Butler wrote: On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 09:14:39PM +, Pollywog wrote: OR, preferably, remove the startup links with update-rc.d -f wwwoffle remove The second approach at least allows you to stop or start wwwoffle manually. Well,

Re: Upgrade potato - woody

2002-01-01 Thread Colin Watson
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 08:14:11PM -0400, William Burrow wrote: It seems that after completing the upgrade from potato to woody, that X was completely unusable. After a few hours searching around for the appropriate package, downloading and installing, I got X working again. What package

Is http://www.linuxdoc.org up?

2002-01-01 Thread Seneca Cunningham
Is http://www.linuxdoc.org up? I've tried to get through, but each time I've tried in the past little while my connection timed out. Seneca [EMAIL PROTECTED]

ifup fails on boot after upgrade to woody

2002-01-01 Thread Curtis Brown
Hi, I recently upgraded from potato to woody, and now my network connection is not set up properly at boot time. I get the following error message: Configuring network interfaces: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device. my /etc/network/interfaces file looks like: auto lo

cannot add printers w/ CUPS

2002-01-01 Thread Kurt Lieber
Just installed cupsys and related packages and am trying to add my first printer, an HP LaserJet 6L. I've tried using the PPDs available through linuxprinting.org as well as the generic laserjet.ppd included with CUPS. Nothing seems to work -- here is the command syntax I'm using, as well as

bash ?

2002-01-01 Thread Jijo Jose A
hi all I had a bash script and it have the line #- script begins cd /usr/share/doc pwd exit 0 #-- ends when i run the code within HOME it outputs /usr/share/doc but after i exited from the script ,current directory remains the HOME. i need to cd

upgrading xfree86

2002-01-01 Thread Deva Seetharam
Hi, I am running 2.2r4 potato. i need to upgrade my x, since only xfree86 4.1.0 supports my video card(matrox g450). So, i am trying to upgrade all x related package such as xserver-common, xbase-clients etc when i do apt-get upgrade xbase-clients i get the message 0 upgraded, 0 installed, 0 to

Re: bash ?

2002-01-01 Thread Craig Dickson
Jijo Jose A wrote: I had a bash script and it have the line #- script begins cd /usr/share/doc pwd exit 0 #-- ends when i run the code within HOME it outputs /usr/share/doc but after i exited from the script ,current directory remains the

Re: bash ?

2002-01-01 Thread Petre Daniel
perhaps the script could look like this: cd /usr/share/doc pwd cd exit 0 good luck :) At 06:43 PM 1/1/02, Jijo Jose A wrote: hi all I had a bash script and it have the line #- script begins cd /usr/share/doc pwd exit 0 #-- ends when i run the code

Re: cannot add printers w/ CUPS

2002-01-01 Thread dman
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 06:40:21PM -0800, Kurt Lieber wrote: | Just installed cupsys and related packages and am trying to add my first | printer, an HP LaserJet 6L. | | I've tried using the PPDs available through linuxprinting.org as well as the | generic laserjet.ppd included with CUPS. | |

Re: cannot add printers w/ CUPS

2002-01-01 Thread Kurt Lieber
On Tuesday 01 January 2002 06:58 pm, dman wrote: Does the web interface work? (http://localhost:631) It works in that I can display the page and navigate around, but it doesn't successfully add a printer. Also, when I try to use the add printer feature, it doesn't display my parallel port in

Re: cannot add printers w/ CUPS

2002-01-01 Thread dman
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 07:06:04PM -0800, Kurt Lieber wrote: | On Tuesday 01 January 2002 06:58 pm, dman wrote: | Does the web interface work? (http://localhost:631) | | It works in that I can display the page and navigate around, but it doesn't | successfully add a printer. Also, when I try

how to edit and upload html page to isp web host?

2002-01-01 Thread mikepolniak
What do i need to create a simple index.html page, and upload it to my isp web hosting site. I will mostly use jpeg files from screen shots and digital camera. -- Save bandwidth and time - Get Mailfilter - The Anti-Spam Utility http://mailfilter.sourceforge.net/index.html

Re: resuming apt-get downloads

2002-01-01 Thread Osamu Aoki
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 02:07:27AM +, Brian Potkin wrote: On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 11:59:35AM -0800, Osamu Aoki wrote: Which file transfer mode did you use and are you using? FTP vs. HTTP FTP can resume partialy downloaded file transfer. HTTP can not resume partialy downloaded

Re: cannot add printers w/ CUPS

2002-01-01 Thread Kurt Lieber
On Tuesday 01 January 2002 07:15 pm, dman wrote: Are you using devfs? (if you don't know, then you aren't) nope -- just plain ext2 Do you have the 'lp' kernel module loaded? Does echo hello world /dev/lp0 cause anything to happen? I don't know if I have the lp kernel module

Re: wwwoffle loading Newbie #61

2002-01-01 Thread Brenda J. Butler
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 07:56:19PM -0600, Colin Watson wrote: On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 04:45:12PM -0500, Brenda J. Butler wrote: On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 09:14:39PM +, Pollywog wrote: OR, preferably, remove the startup links with update-rc.d -f wwwoffle remove The second

Re: resuming apt-get downloads

2002-01-01 Thread Osamu Aoki
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 02:24:16AM +0200, Serafim Zanikolas wrote: On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 11:59:35AM -0800, Osamu Aoki wrote: Or run from root: # apt-setup I'm afraid that /etc/apt/sources.list has mostly ftp entries, and apt-get output indicates that these are the ones actually being

Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)

2002-01-01 Thread Richard Cobbe
Lo, on Tuesday, January 1, dman did write: On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 10:34:25AM -0600, Richard Cobbe wrote: | Lo, on Tuesday, January 1, dman did write: | | The strength and staticness of typing are two independent properties. | | Also agreed. Cool, I'm glad you know this stuff too! Oh

Re: how to edit and upload html page to isp web host?

2002-01-01 Thread Petre Daniel
pico,mcedit,vi or joe,ncftp package or simply ftp.. At 07:28 PM 1/1/02, mikepolniak wrote: What do i need to create a simple index.html page, and upload it to my isp web hosting site. I will mostly use jpeg files from screen shots and digital camera. -- Save bandwidth and time - Get

Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)

2002-01-01 Thread Richard Cobbe
Lo, on Tuesday, January 1, Ben Collins did write: On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 10:12:09AM -0600, Richard Cobbe wrote: Secondly, you can make this mistake with any language that allows references (perl, python, and java all allow it). Just replace free() with some other assignment that

Re: bash ?

2002-01-01 Thread Michael D. Crawford
You probably need to use an alias, rather than a shell script. The problem is that the shell script is performed in a new process, that has its own current directory, and is forgotten when it exits alias cddoc=cd /usr/share/doc Put the alias in your bash startup file, that's ~/.bashrc or

Re: cannot add printers w/ CUPS

2002-01-01 Thread dman
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 07:34:46PM -0800, Kurt Lieber wrote: | On Tuesday 01 January 2002 07:15 pm, dman wrote: | | Are you using devfs? (if you don't know, then you aren't) | | nope -- just plain ext2 :-). devfs is a magic, non-existant, filesystem, similar to /proc. | Do you | have

XFree 4.1 on Potato

2002-01-01 Thread Penguin
I have Potato 2.2r0. Unfortunately the unofficial debs for xserver-common 4.1, etc etc will not install. dpkg complains that xfree(86?)-common is only at 3.x version, when I need the 4.1 version. Why is this? I thought all those packages that installed xserver-common etc for XFree 4.1 was all I

Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)

2002-01-01 Thread dman
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 09:39:18PM -0600, Richard Cobbe wrote: | Lo, on Tuesday, January 1, dman did write: | | On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 10:34:25AM -0600, Richard Cobbe wrote: | | Lo, on Tuesday, January 1, dman did write: | | | | The strength and staticness of typing are two independent

Can't get DPMS to work with woody/sid

2002-01-01 Thread Rick Macdonald
Ever since I upgraded to woody many many months ago (on two different machines) DPMS no longer powers off my monitors. I just can't figure it out. xscreensaver blanks the screen but it never goes into power-saving modes. I'm actually running woody/sid. Can anybody claim that this works with

MBR 13FA

2002-01-01 Thread Paul A. Thomas
Hi. My first install is functional, but apparently I made an improper choice in at least one instance as the system gives the following prompt when boot up is attempted from the hard drive : MBR FA13: ( One hard drive with half a dozen Linux only partitions, one of which is marked as

Re: XFree 4.1 on Potato

2002-01-01 Thread dman
On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 03:02:45PM +1000, Penguin wrote: | I have Potato 2.2r0. Unfortunately the unofficial debs for xserver-common | 4.1, etc etc will not install. dpkg complains that xfree(86?)-common is only | at 3.x version, when I need the 4.1 version. Why is this? I thought all those |

Re: xscreensaver requires manual activation

2002-01-01 Thread Nori Heikkinen
on Tue, 01 Jan 2002 08:01:08PM -0500, dman insinuated: On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 05:24:12PM -0600, Nori Heikkinen wrote: | (potato, 2.4.9) | running xscreensaver but it hasn't for some time started up by itself | when i start X. it says it is: | | orange:~ xscreensaver | xscreensaver:

Re: upgrading xfree86

2002-01-01 Thread William Burrow
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 08:46:23PM -0600, Deva Seetharam wrote: i just wanted to see what would happen if i do a apt-get dist upgrade i get the message that xbase-clients, xdm, xf86setup etc will be removed. i dont understand what is going on. Could anyone pls. help?

Re: wwwoffle loading Newbie #61

2002-01-01 Thread Colin Watson
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 09:02:07PM -0500, Brenda J. Butler wrote: On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 07:56:19PM -0600, Colin Watson wrote: On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 04:45:12PM -0500, Brenda J. Butler wrote: And why can't we uninstall it without also uninstalling task-dialup (via apt-get remove)? Does

SATILIK KOMPLE PASAJ(KELEPÝR)

2002-01-01 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bursa Kestel ilçe merkezinde ,meydanda . 6 dükan 2 özel depo 8 tapu,her işe uygun. Hızlı pirim yapan ,ele geçmez bir yerde. Toplam 200 m2 civarı. Fiatı 100 bin dolar. Tel:0-224-3298655

Re: C Manual

2002-01-01 Thread Brenda J. Butler
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 04:11:57PM -0700, Paul Scott wrote: Eric G. Miller wrote: On Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:48:08 -0800 (PST), Jeffrey W. Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, dman wrote: On Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 09:31:36AM -0800, Paul Mackinney wrote: | Gary Turner muttered: |

Re: xscreensaver requires manual activation

2002-01-01 Thread dman
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 10:18:39PM -0600, Nori Heikkinen wrote: | on Tue, 01 Jan 2002 08:01:08PM -0500, dman insinuated: | On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 05:24:12PM -0600, Nori Heikkinen wrote: | | (potato, 2.4.9) | | running xscreensaver but it hasn't for some time started up by itself | | when i

Re: lilo warning

2002-01-01 Thread Jeff
Jeff, 2001-Dec-30 17:46 -0800: I just did an upgrade on my woody machine using apt-get update apt-get upgrade and after make a minor mod to my lilo.conf, and running lilo, I get the follow error: Warning: Int 0x13 function 8 and function 0x48 return different head/sector geometries

Re: Sound newbie ... what is OSS, ALSA, etc all about?

2002-01-01 Thread Randolph S. Kahle
On Tue, 2002-01-01 at 12:33, csj wrote: On Wednesday 02 January 2002 01:53, Randolph S. Kahle wrote: I started researching how to get sound working on my machine and I am confused about the following: * ALSA * OSS You probably know what the letters stands for. The practical

mutt read-only mailbox?

2002-01-01 Thread Robert L. Harris
A friend of mine is running a debian sid. Everything is up to date. Since he ran his last dist-upgrade he can't delete mail. Mutt says the mailbox is read-only. He can send and receive mail fine. entering % to toggle read-only gives an error that the mailbox is read only. The filesystem

Re: Remote X connections (was Re: Weird log message)

2002-01-01 Thread Karsten M. Self
on Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 12:39:07AM -0600, Jor-el ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Karsten M. Self wrote: Be default, X11 doesn't allow TCP/IP (remote) connections in more recent versions, though this can be overridden. Karsten, How can this be overridden? Where can

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