I would like to point out some things for those who are willing
to listen:
1) Mark has not stated that the window controls decision has been
finalized. He said that he supported the interface team's decision to
do it this way for the beta. I think we do Ubuntu and the Canonical
team great diss
@Mark Shuttleworth (if you still check this)
Given the amount of disappointment, I (as well as the design team) would listen
to what people are saying, but of course, you said it wasn't reasonable to do
so for the future (for new features). Then at least give our thoughts *some*
consideration.
Fine add it as an option to put it on the left, but leave it on the
right for default as the little gain (which is very debatable) does not
to weigh the outrage from users. Look at what yo have from alpha testers
which are people who expect change and want to try something different.
Imagine what
Putting the buttons on the left side is very functional. Make a test and
you'll notice that whenever you open the window, the pointer is always
closer to the left than the right side of the window, meaning less
pointer movements over the desktop.
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the wi
@Mark Appier,
I couldn't agree with you more. The reason there are so many comments is
because people do feel passionate about Ubuntu, which implies they are doing
something very right. I love customizing my desktop and understand that if i
want to change something, I can.
It doesn't matter if
Moved them back to the "right" side from the left ("wrong" side for me)
by doing this thanks to iRock:
gconftool-2 --set /apps/metacity/general/button_layout --type string
menu:minimize,maximize,close
Among other things, with them on the Beta default left, I frequently
lose a line on the 1024x768
I'm against making that change, at least now, without having them a few
months in "beta testing" for find out all the "regression bugs" that it
generates and how the people feel about it.
Maybe since the first 10.10 alpha?
>
> The fact that this is an LTS cuts both ways. If I'm confident that
> 1
Personally, at the time of writing this, I do not like this change as it
seems to be more a change for changes sake in an effort to simply be
different. There seems to have been an element of groupthink in the
design and decision process. This is a pity because for the most part,
despite a few edge
Optimus 55, if you don't like the ability to customize your desktop or
implement alternative themes, there are a number of proprietary
operating systems that already accommodate you. As for Ubuntu, one of
the really neat things is that it does have a number of themes that ship
with it as well as s
I honestly can't believe what I read here.
Mark's response to fewt were clear and very truthful. If everyone out
there got to make design decisions for ubuntu, it would ship by default
with hundreds of xp, vista + osx clone themes and thousands of tasteless
bikini wallpapers with "ubuntu" tagged o
To whom it might concern:
- The proposed changes should not happen suddenly on a LTS.
- Things should happen for a reason: Do you have a way to show us where this is
leading to? Do you have factual data that supports that this is the best
solution?.
- Our changes and customization should not be
Honestly people. Really? This whole thread has devolved into watching a
flock of birds peck at one another. Trying to belabor this process to
death by having a running popularity contest of who likes what where
won't convince anybody of anything. I would be willing to go out on a
limb and sugges
John Lewis wrote on 2010-03-19:
> Basically when everything has to be decided
> by committee/consensus view it a) slows the
> decision making process down a lot and
> b) some pretty silly decisions get made in the
> interests of trying to keep everyone happy.
Rafael Gattringer wrote on 2010-03-2
Does anyone know if this bug might be related to maximus failing to hide
the window decorations? I am currently running ubuntu (not the netbook
remix) with maximus and window-picker to maximize on desktop real
estate.
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the window controls back to
"menu
I too am strongly opposed to this change. I just hope it does not catch
on in Kubuntu, or Linux Mint.
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the window controls back to
"menu:minimize,maximize,close"
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/532633
You received this bug notification because you are a
I would have a more constructive idea that respects the ideas of
canonical and the ideas of some users of the community.
should also be easy to implement.
Bug #542772
2 click and we are all happy.
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the window controls back to
"menu:minimize,maximize,
For me it makes no big difference, left or right, if the developers want
it this way, let it be. I left Windows almost 10 years ago, and I've
changed my habits several times, this is certainly not going to be the
last or the biggest.
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the window control
very bad decision
like to have the window controls on the right
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the window controls back to
"menu:minimize,maximize,close"
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/532633
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Desktop Bugs, which
Moving the buttons left is a *big* step ahead. User look from the top-left to
bottom-right. Currently I am a KDE-user (Kubuntu) but will switch to GNOME
with lucid. Aligning the title left is also a very good idea. I never liked
centered titles.
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the win
This has probably been mentioned many times before, however. The way I
look at it, I don't mind them on the left side. What I have a problem
with, is that they just threw the buttons on the left side, and left it
in the same order as they were on the right, meaning the close button is
on the inside
I would of expected a user survey to go out, or something along those
lines to get an accurate, and full understanding of what USERS would
feel best with. After all, ubuntu is an OS that is built around open and
free ideals. Not letting everyone, or at least OPENLY DISCUSS CHANGE, is
a breach of it
On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 00:55 +, "j_baer" wrote:
> My belief is this decision was not made by the flip of a coin, the toss
> of a dart, or the personal preference of any single individual. I
> believe the concept was discussed, debated, and evaluated as to adding
> value to Ubuntu as it exists to
# 281:
Really the minority? I had understand in a post before that 99.9% are
happy with it and 0.1% unhappy... they come here in search of shout loud
somewhere! and let a comment. :-) ... Well, maybe I am only saturated a
little bit with the 280 comments: yes, not, anger, off-topic, chantage,
idea
Hello,
i hope this was not already mentioned (i can't read 283 comments now) but when
you use gnome-shell the buttons are very near to the activity button.
sometimes i open the overlay mode when i want to use the buttons.
This can suck ;-)
on the other side when i don't use gnome-shell i prefer th
As far as I know, there have been no papers or research published on
window button placement, or the advantages/disadvantages of any of the
suggested positions and combinations.
What we do know already is that it appears that MS arbitrarily chose the
top-right position, and Apple chose the left be
Luckily I know understand that I can configure the buttons with
gconftool. My anger is finally gone. After many times scanning the
gconftool shell command I actually didn't understand the meaning of ":".
The good outcome of this bug is that I have my minimize and close button
back on the right. Fur
Respectfully I want to say that moving the buttons to the left and
changing buttons position is a very bad idea, if you want to do that
create a new theme and don't make it the default for the minority that
wants that.
Sure, I'll vote with my feet too if you ship like that because you are
not vali
It appears there are two items causing concern with this team.
The first – the window control buttons are now located in the upper
left hand quadrant of the window frame.
The second - the order of the buttons has changed.
There is plenty of data to support locating the buttons in the upper
l
@Atel I ALWAYS use the scrollbar to scroll, and I know more people who
does.
I just hope this possible change isn't made the same way that the
buttons', and some usability testing is done before doing changes that
may seriously affect lots of people like me.
Not to talk about having to redesign l
@Atel, Yes, the web is broken. Ubuntu is changing it's design, and the
web is not compatible with it. The web must change.
Seriously?
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the window controls back to
"menu:minimize,maximize,close"
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/532633
You received this b
Jordan:
I don't think you can hold up webpages this long as typical or even moderately
common usage.
Having to scroll all the way to the bottom to see newest comments and to get to
the "Add comment" box in Launchpad is more indicative of a design failure of
the launchpad web interface itself
@Mark Shuttleworth: You said in #248,
> Most people don't scroll with the scrollbar any more. The use the
> scrollbar to gauge "how much fo the document am I seeing".
Can you site any references to this? Scrolling through this bug report,
for instance, would take a LONG time with a mouse wheel.
Already now a large number of people are upset by the changed placement
of the window controls. There's still time to fix it before the release
though. Just admit people don't like the change and revert it! Put up a
poll if you don't believe it. Releasing this change would have a major
negative im
Mark:
I did not make any assumptions about intent or motivations on the behalf
of anyone at Canonical.
What I am saying is that maybe...just maybe the Canonical design team
isn't communicating enough about intent and motivation so that the
external community can see individual changes in context
>From a support standpoint this is a nightmare.
I can see that if this was a smaller project, it wouldn't create many
waves. But come on, Ubuntu is #1. I'm moving to Lucid from Hardy because
of LTS. I run LTSP servers for thousands of students and teachers. They
are ALL going to complain to me. As
On 19/03/10 18:52, Atel Apsfej wrote:
> Contrast how the Canonical design team works with how the recent Gnome
> hackfest participants communicated what was going on at the event.
> http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/London2010
>
> Out of all the listed participants on that page with blogs... h
It's very disappointing to know that people don't like to try anything
new, they always like to be happy whit whatever going on and usual,
Lucid tried somthing new this time and all of you are disagreeing with
it :(
Very bad! i like th new feature and it's good! I strongly contrary to
this bug!
-
I did not read all the comments here, but some of them are really
annoying and stupid. i got used to the new position and now i like it.
The only thing which confuses me is the shutdown button still being on
the right.
All these people here complaining about the issue with google chrome
having the
I think the real problem here isn't whether the controls are on the left
or on the right. If users don't like something, they will find a way to
change it, and share those changes with other like minded users. The
real issue seems to be about whether or not the novice user will be able
to make su
I agree with Luiz Felipe Talvik.
Changing it is not only completely pointless but it is just annoying the
users and it is completely inconsistent with every previous version of
ubuntu and every other distro (for no reason)
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the window controls back to
Fine, move the button thingies to the left. Whatever. But the least you
could do is give the users the ability to move it back using the gui, by
putting something in the preferences> appearance config menu, so they
don't have to mess with gconfig to get the buttons to where they are
consistent. Is
I would just like to add that this is very hard to trackpad users.
Pushing the mouse to the right takes longer and is harder to do. Pulling
your finger is much easier.
If I had to test a location for the buttons I would use the center.
Hopefully you consider laptop users in the decision.
--
[li
It is my opinion as well that the button should be in the right edge,
because this is where ALL users are going to look for it.
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the window controls back to
"menu:minimize,maximize,close"
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/532633
You received this bug noti
scholli:
I make no claim that this particular issue is as important as the
emotion displayed in the discourse would suggest.
It's like when I have a big argument with my wife over something small.
Once the emotions are spent and we rationally talk through why the out-
of-proportion argument happe
Amazing, what a fuss just because it was decided to move some buttons to
a different side
This is a setting and not a hard coded feature... it can be changed by the user.
Let me guess all here complaining still have the default wallpaper, theme,
login splash, ... you never changed nothing
from th
"Window-Buttons-Editor" or *mwbuttons* ("Metacity Window Buttons"}, as the
original script
was called, (c) 2010 Pablo Seminario .
Is a simple GUI script to place the buttons on the Titlebar in any order,
and right or left.
Create a link, put it in the menu, desktop, menubar, etc.-
The only thin
ok. guys.. I didn't read all the posts because the bickering started to
make my head hurt. I am as passionate about Ubuntu as most of the people
that posted here. I'd show you the tattoo but it's in a private place.
:) Seriously, the passion of this argument is good but not directed in
the right pl
I think most people are right handed and now their way (with the mouse) is
greater than before.
Please let the icons on the right side of the bar. Users who come from another
OS are confused and so they
search for an alternative OS. Stop this wired things.!!
--
[light-theme] please revert the
My 2 cents worth:-
1. From a purely productive point of view, having the minimize, maximize
and close buttons near the menus saves having to move the mouse pointer
to the opposite side of the screen under certain circumstances.
Personally I would rather waste untold seconds of my life enjoying a
g
My opinion...
Love em on the left!!
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the window controls back to
"menu:minimize,maximize,close"
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/532633
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to metacity in
I hear alway touchscreens as argument. But it's a funny argument in my
eyes. The pick-up'ed Icons on the panel, switch off - button on the
panel, control-buttons (right or left), hide windows-applet, ... all is
too small for that feature. Honestly it needs a different Desktop-
Interface like the Ub
According to comment #208, if we are going to change button position and order,
this is the best:
(left:) maximize, (right:) restore, minimize, close.
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the window controls back to
"menu:minimize,maximize,close"
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/532633
Yo
"
Our design roadmap calls for us to reduce the visibility of scrollbars,
and emphasise:
- touch scrolling
- scrollwheels
Most people don't scroll with the scrollbar any more. The use the
scrollbar to gauge "how much fo the document am I seeing".
"
Hum... I think the very long list of concerns
I totally agree with all the people that don't want such a big change in an LTS.
As Mark said: He wants to free space for something "NEW", but people want to
work with an LTS for several years and don't want to be bothered by a design
based on an "in between" conception.
If you're sure you want
Forgive me if I'm confusing this bug with the one about moving buttons
back to the right side of the window, but I actually like this order:
gconftool-2 --set /apps/metacity/general/button_layout --type string
"minimize,maximize:close"
It seems to me that there is some argument is around having t
Shouldn't this bug, by now, be assigned to someone on the desktop
experience team? And can anyone confirm when a decision will be made
regarding this?
And still no comments from anyone who was responsible for this? Other,
obviously, Mark himself. Or any rebuttal to comments made in post 71?
--
Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
> Our design roadmap calls for us to reduce the visibility of
> scrollbars, and emphasise:
>
> - touch scrolling
> - scrollwheels
If you are actually considering touch scrolling, than you should also
consider that touch screens are much less precise than mouse pointers
@Mark
Scrollbars are still very useful even with a mousewheel, when navigating
in a large document for example by either scrolling the bar or middle
clicking, please don't kill them at least *before* something as useful
is implemented :)
Furthermore, a lot of users (at least around me) don't even
** Description changed:
Please centre the window title like in previous Human theme, and also
re-order the window controls in classic order, positioned on the right
side (menu - title - minimize, maximize close).
Workaround
To revert to old layout, enter in terminal:
$ gco
> No, notifications were not the primary driver.
Why not simply say that you cannot tell us the reason? :)
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the window controls back to
"menu:minimize,maximize,close"
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/532633
You received this bug notification because you
On 19/03/10 10:53, Mr. X wrote:
>> My mouse cursor usually hovers around the right side
>> of windows because the vertical scroll bars are on the
>> right. Also, since I read left-to-right, it seems easier to
>> interact with windows at the right side.
>>
> That's a very good point.
>
> There'
> My mouse cursor usually hovers around the right side
> of windows because the vertical scroll bars are on the
> right. Also, since I read left-to-right, it seems easier to
> interact with windows at the right side.
That's a very good point.
There's no sense moving the min/max/close buttons to t
I am somewhat disappointed that none of the community contributors as so
far is aware of the real intentions of this issue. Moving the buttons to
the left is not a change for the sake of change as someone earlier
supposed.
No, they are keen enough at Canonical's and have weighted this
carefully. A
OK, just a short comment:
I like change and I think Ubuntu should be able to change things to be better
than their competition.
But I also use Chrome, Kubuntu and Windows and this is really hard to get used
to (I tried for weeks now).
IMO it is better to change these things with upstream in Gnom
Looking back at this thread, the issue seems completely misunderstood by
Ubuntu representatives.
Maybe to understand the debate, it should be made clear that this is the
straw that broke the camel's back!
Someone hereupper complain about regressions every 6 months... the most
annoying and not qui
I think it's amazing how Ubuntu manages to screw up every major version
with some serious deal-breaker. 9.10 broke my wireless and graphics
drivers (that worked perfectly in 9.04), and asked me for a password
every minute. I never got to using it. And now 10.04 comes along with
ridiculous purple c
But on a more serious note, people have looked to the top-right corner
for window controls since Windows 3.1 atleast. Unless he is reserving
the top right corner for some magical blow-job button, I think he is
going in the wrong direction.
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the window co
My mouse cursor usually hovers around the right side of windows because
the vertical scroll bars are on the right. Also, since I read left-to-
right, it seems easier to interact with windows at the right side.
I usually close, minimize, or maximize windows and work with menus using
the keyboard,
Pat, the buttons don't have to stay--you may put them wherever you would
like. Customization is one of the really great things I like about
Ubuntu and other linux distributions. My desktop barely resembles the
default. Because I have a mix of Ubuntu releases and Debian as well as
Windows that my
im going to fedora if the buttons stay
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the window controls back to
"menu:minimize,maximize,close"
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/532633
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to metacity
@ Atel Apsfej:
Wow. I am baffled about your ability to write and think. Here are writing many
genius, but not all here have your ability to say it clear, with good arguments
(points) and the cruel reality without being offensive, arrogant or simply
unrespectful. I saw you are member here since
On Fri, 2010-03-19 at 00:41 +, Dave Stroud wrote:
> Bruno Girin wrote:
> >
> > this tag may include content you can't see the funny side
> > of
> > please read the whole post and go have a walk before replying
> > in anger
> >
> > Oh dear! A pre-release version of the next Ubuntu includes a
@Mark Shuttleworth
> There's a job waiting for you at a tabloid, if that's how you treat
> commentary. Isolating snippets and using them out of context is just rude.
So, instead of answering him, you criticize him of "taking quotes out of
context" when I looked and saw that, amazingly, he didn't.
Bruno Girin wrote:
>
> this tag may include content you can't see the funny side
> of
> please read the whole post and go have a walk before replying in
> anger
>
> Oh dear! A pre-release version of the next Ubuntu includes a massive
> change to an essential element of user interface: the close
El vie, 19-03-2010 a las 00:18 +, personman escribió:
> OK. Fair warning, this is long as hell, but there were some ideological
> differences that I felt needed to be addressed. This is a reply to Mark
> which is probably too way long to justify his reading it, but I'm
> posting it anyway.
>
>
Scholli:
Do I believe Shuttleworth is infallible? No. I believe the previous
mistakes made with nautilus spatial are proof enough of that. When he
mistake a mistake in judgement...who's he accountable to for that if not
the entire Ubuntu community? Who certified him an expert designer? He
may be
OK. Fair warning, this is long as hell, but there were some ideological
differences that I felt needed to be addressed. This is a reply to Mark
which is probably too way long to justify his reading it, but I'm
posting it anyway.
>We all make Ubuntu, but we do not all make all of it. In other words
this tag may include content you can't see the funny side
of
please read the whole post and go have a walk before replying in
anger
Oh dear! A pre-release version of the next Ubuntu includes a massive
change to an essential element of user interface: the close button is
now on the left! The wor
Can people please stop complaining about the window controls being on
the left side? Windows has them on the right side, but it’s completely
illogical to have them on the right side. The GUI of Windows is
completely illogical and causes it’s users to get RSI, because of all
the mouse movement when
@ Atel Apsfej:
+1
But publish ideas and inventions soon in form of mock-up's can be copied
by the concurrence and the "Joker"-Card is played before it could dig
hurtful. Better believe to Shuttleworth and let him play the poker-game
without rush him show his cards. I believe in his abilities, you
http://blog.internetnews.com/apatrizio/do-not-want-dog.jpg
I've read through most of the comments and justification but I still think this
change is MAJOR FAIL. Please revert.
I've been working very, very hard to fix Bug #1 and this sort of change is
probably the most destructive thing you coul
> gnome-shell, Compiz, Firefox,, gnome-appearance, etc that will need
to be remodelled?
To add to the list , "webpages" .[chat tabs, mail tabs , info bars , in-
page popups, modal popups ] All the major sites have close buttons for
these on the top right. [I'm not even sure if there is a site whi
Scaine:
The problem here is that people are talking past each other. What's
primarily missing is a definition and explanation of the data and data
collection methodology that Shuttleworth and the rest of the design team
are interested in seeing collected and will respect as being good enough
to f
Adam Williamson wrote:
> You've said a couple of times that the idea is to free up the right hand
> corner
> for Other Stuff You Will Put There Later, which is a valid idea. What I don't
> get,
> though, is why you think it makes sense to do the freeing-up before you've got
> around to inventing
@Mark
Mr.Shuttleworth, you clearly are a more successful person than I am, and I
respect your opinions to a certain degree.
I only want this change to be reverted since I work with regular end-users
without computer knowledge and I am sure they will react to this change in a
negative way.
You s
Still no comments from the design team at all? Compiz, Firefox,, gnome-
appearance, gnome-shell, etc that will need to be remodelled?
What about the users who don't like the buttons on the left and swap it
to the right - will they therefore forgo the pleasures of Cool New Stuff
when 10.10 comes o
Hi Mark , let me make a little contribution a this controversy , a o.s. , this
one o anyone should be easy to use to the novice , they should do it so that it
turns out to be as easy as possible to which are not geeks , the geek o
experienced linux user can tune the desk by himself , but a novic
Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
> No. This is not a democracy. Good feedback, good data, are welcome. But
> we are not voting on design decisions.
Mark,
I completely understand and agree with your position -- you are the
benevolent dictator for life, and Ubuntu is not a democracy.
HOWEVER, I also unde
@Fox
I agree entirely. If Ubuntu fails, this is why. Look no further. Look at
how many people hate this, and yet we have the developers saying that
the majority opinion of the people that use the thing daily is stupid
and that the non-standard behavior won't change.
It's not a meritocracy when ba
I wish Linux proponents would decide whether you want people to switch
to Linux from Windows or OS X, or not. I'm just trying Ubuntu again
(Karmic) after last trying it (I think Dapper Drake was the last version
I'd tried previously). It has improved tremendously since then but now
I read this co
On 18/03/10 17:36, bigbrovar wrote:
> Are you saying that those who think that the new design of windows
> button placement does not suit them, should take a walk and find
> another distro?
No. I'd rather they joined this thread and the ayatana list and
discussed options and ideas there. I wasn't
LOL, this shit storm is hilarious. I'm not going to waste my time with
ubuntu anymore. It was a noob distro anyway.
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the window controls back to
"menu:minimize,maximize,close"
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/532633
You received this bug notification bec
More than one person is missing the point here, I believe.
Ubuntu is free to use, distribute, and even more important in this case,
free to modify. If you dislike the buttons on the left, just use the
already mentioned gconf or extra PPA methods. That's it. Of course, you
can like Ubuntu's/Canonic
I agree with Adam Williamson and I think a lot of the heat this is
generating comes from the fact that we don't know what is the "Cool New
Stuff" that is being envisioned for the now free space.
I think most people can't really see improvements with this change and
maybe it would open our minds a
Mark, if you'd let someone entirely unrelated plunk an oar in for a minute, I
think "However, it does line things
up nicely for work I would like us to do in future." is at the nub of this.
You've said a couple of times that the idea is to free up the right hand corner
for Other Stuff You Will P
"The problem with your Forums post is that it says "this is what really
happened" and is, in fact, quite incorrect.
Some members of the design team asked that the window controls be
grouped on the left, and presented the visualisation. So it wasn't that
I "prefer it that way". I didn't like it ini
@ Mark Shuttleworth I think what @Pablo Quirós meant was that the aim of
design and usability is to make the life of the user easier, to improve
their workflow hence their productivity. If the design fails to achieve
this (and only the user can tell) then that design has failed and reason
be restor
Time will tell. I feel quite good about the contribution I'm making, but
you're entitled to disagree. I'm sure you have a complete perspective on
the many things that I do, and therefor are in a good position to make
that judgment.
Mark
-
Sarcasm isn't going to help your issue here. There ar
I was sceptical of this change at first. But having only used lucid since the
alpha 3 release, I've grown quite fond of the current button position, on the
left hand side of the screen.
I would encourage users to be patient and to give lucid (now beta 1) some
solid, rigorous use (not 5 minutes a
Edit: Top *left* is the worst place for close button.
--
[light-theme] please revert the order of the window controls back to
"menu:minimize,maximize,close"
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/532633
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Desktop Bugs, which is subscri
1 - 100 of 212 matches
Mail list logo
