Tracking num-lock state on wayland

Hi, I maintain lockkeys extension for gnome shell. It displays num-lock and caps-lock states in the panel. It also shows notification if either of these states change. I use Keymap's "state-changed" signal: Gdk.Keymap.get_default().connect('state-changed', ...); to receive numlock and capslock ch

Re: RFC: Storing Automated Tasks/Tests In Dist-Git

On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 8:09:14 PM CEST Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > And related to this question, do we also need to define > "TestRequires" packages/dependencies? Sounds like natural approach would be to install the built packages into some minimal environment, and the packages itself should

Re: [Guidelines change] Changes to the packaging guidelines

On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 2:27:44 PM CEST Andrea Musuruane wrote: > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Andrea Musuruane wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Jason L Tibbitts III > > wrote: > >> > >> Here are the recent changes to the packaging guidelines. > >> > >> - > >> > >>

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 9:31 PM, Chris Murphy wrote: > OK this is from just one thread, pretty much exactly two years ago. > It's a long thread so these are just extractions I think are useful in > getting a few different data points about the rationalization of > offline updates, and context for t

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Wed, 2016-10-05 at 13:34 +1000, Jeff Fearn wrote: > On 5/10/2016 12:36, Sam Varshavchik wrote: > > Adam Williamson writes: > > > > > All dnf's 'nice features' aren't really there for a system update, are > > > they? > > > > > > Well what are they there for, then? > > > > > You can use

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On 5/10/2016 12:36, Sam Varshavchik wrote: > Adam Williamson writes: > >> All dnf's 'nice features' aren't really there for a system update, are >> they? > > Well what are they there for, then? > >> You can use all of its nice features for doing other things. > > Like what? I thought that

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Wed, 2016-10-05 at 02:59 +, Andrew Toskin wrote: > This is the first I've heard of any recommendation like this. If > running `dnf upgrade` from a graphical console is such a big and > well-known risk, then why isn't it mentioned in the dnf > documentation? I've posted about this on the dnf

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 22:36 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote: > Adam Williamson writes: > > > > > All dnf's 'nice features' aren't really there for a system update, > > are > > they? > > Well what are they there for, then? Querying the package database and installing new packages. A system update,

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

OK this is from just one thread, pretty much exactly two years ago. It's a long thread so these are just extractions I think are useful in getting a few different data points about the rationalization of offline updates, and context for the use case where they're most well suited (or not). And rea

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

This is the first I've heard of any recommendation like this. If running `dnf upgrade` from a graphical console is such a big and well-known risk, then why isn't it mentioned in the dnf documentation? I've posted about this on the dnf Bugzilla. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=138178

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Adam Williamson writes: All dnf's 'nice features' aren't really there for a system update, are they? Well what are they there for, then? You can use all of its nice features for doing other things. Like what? I thought that the only thing dnf does is update the system. Oh, yeah, su

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 18:59 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote: > > I've been scrambling reading threads trying to understand what exactly is > the exposure here. The only thing I could find that quantified the risk > was in this kde thread: > > https://goo.gl/m87COz You're never really going to be abl

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Sam Varshavchik wrote: > Strictly speaking Fedora doesn't make you do the first one, but it's >> *well* understood for a long time how fragile this is which is why >> offline updates was created. >> > > Well, this is a surprise to me. I guess my faith in dnf was mi

Fedora Rawhide-20161004.n.1 compose check report

Missing expected images: Kde live i386 Workstation live i386 Kde live x86_64 Cloud_base raw-xz i386 Workstation live x86_64 Failed openQA tests: 53/80 (x86_64), 13/15 (i386) Old failures (same test failed in Rawhide-20161004.n.0): ID: 38690 Test: x86_64 Everything-boot-iso

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 20:43 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote: > But ordinary regular app updates will happily run on cruise control, without  > bringing the system down into single user mode. If Android can do that, I  > see no reason why Fedora can't, either. The only time you need to reboot an  >

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Chris Murphy writes: I suggested earlier in the thread that it automatically put itself in its own scope. But I don't know if that solves this problem, and even if it does it's only one part of a much bigger set of problems that can cause updates to implode. In this case, sure maybe dnf survives

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

OK Everyone.. enough. If you want to keep at it, take it off-list. -- Stephen J Smoogen. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Chris Adams writes: Once upon a time, Sam Varshavchik said: > I can make any process survive an X shutdown, using an amazing tool > called "tmux". > > Why can't dnf do the same? Because dnf would have to reimplement tmux's (or screen's) TTY handling, which is far outside the scope of a package

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Sam Varshavchik wrote: > Chris Murphy writes: > >> > Seems to me it >> > would be more worthwhile to build in better error recovery within DNF >> > than >> > to always require "offline" - especially >> > since the incidence of failure (at least anecdotally) just isn

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Once upon a time, Sam Varshavchik said: > I can make any process survive an X shutdown, using an amazing tool > called "tmux". > > Why can't dnf do the same? Because dnf would have to reimplement tmux's (or screen's) TTY handling, which is far outside the scope of a package manager. If you want

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 19:47 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote: > > I'm quite astonished to read this. Something is wrong, here. Either I have > suffered a stroke, today, or I seriously misunderstood some POSIX > fundamentals, for the last twenty years. Oh fer Pete's sake, would you please ratchet

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Chris Murphy writes: > Seems to me it > would be more worthwhile to build in better error recovery within DNF than > to always require "offline" - especially > since the incidence of failure (at least anecdotally) just isn't that high. Sufficiently impractical that it's not possible. Wrong.

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Adam Williamson writes: It's pretty simple, really: a process running in a terminal inside a graphical desktop will crash if the terminal app crashes, or if the desktop crashes, or if X crashes. It should take me about five minutes to write a process that will continue happily along if its t

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Björn Persson wrote: > Adam Williamson wrote: >> If you're using Workstation, the offline update system is expressly >> designed to minimize the likelihood of this kind of problem, so please >> do consider using it. > > In CentOS or Debian I can afford to reboot for

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Gerald B. Cox writes: it.  Apparently I've missed something along the way because now people are implying that using the command line tools from within GNOME or KDE are dangerous.  What exactly is going on? Somewhere along the way, it seems that quite a few sharks have been jumped over.

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Chris Murphy writes: I don't understand how you arrive at this conclusion. dnf is sitting on the top of a house of cards when it's running in Terminal. If anything below it dies, dnf dies and by extension so is rpm. Could dnf be put into it's own session or scope (whatever it's called), and Ha

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Andrew Lutomirski writes: My point is that a lot of this exposure could be avoided. Sure, there's a decent chance that updating packages will crash running programs. But, unless one of those programs is dnf, rpm, or systemd, that shouldn't be an excuse to blow up the whole upgrade. I agree.

Re: ... and Fedora 25! - Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On 10/04/2016 01:03 PM, Tomasz Torcz wrote: On Tue, Oct 04, 2016 at 12:31:43PM -0500, Ian Pilcher wrote: Can you clarify? In what circumstances would the dnf command running within a screen session not survive an X/desktop crash? KillUserProcesses=yes Ouch! Forgot about that. -- ===

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

stan wrote: > On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 00:20:25 +0200 > Björn Persson wrote: > > > In a VT I'll often be unable to review the list of updates before > > hitting Y, as I'll only see the end of the list. > > An alternative to Adam's suggestions. > > It takes a couple of logins as root, but running >

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Chris Murphy wrote: > It's not really workable without an atomic and out of tree update > method, otherwise libraries are still yanked out from under running > processes at some point. Running programs and their loaded libraries count as open files. Unixy filesystems don't delete open files. They

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Adam Williamson wrote: > On Wed, 2016-10-05 at 00:20 +0200, Björn Persson wrote: > > Adam Williamson wrote: > > > If you're using Workstation, the offline update system is > > > expressly designed to minimize the likelihood of this kind of > > > problem, so please do consider using it. > > > >

Re: [HEADS UP] python-matplotlib-2.0.0 major update

Hi, On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski < domi...@greysector.net> wrote: > > I've just pushed (but not built) python-matplotlib-2.0.0b4 to rawhide. > I'll be attempting to rebuild all the affected packages locally to > test if they're compatible. In the meantime, feel

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 00:20:25 +0200 Björn Persson wrote: > In a VT I'll often be unable to review the list of updates before > hitting Y, as I'll only see the end of the list. An alternative to Adam's suggestions. It takes a couple of logins as root, but running dnf update > /tmp/dnf_out 2> /tmp

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Wed, 2016-10-05 at 00:20 +0200, Björn Persson wrote: > Adam Williamson wrote: > > If you're using Workstation, the offline update system is expressly > > designed to minimize the likelihood of this kind of problem, so please > > do consider using it. > > > In CentOS or Debian I can afford to r

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Stephen Gallagher wrote: > On 10/04/2016 01:20 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > On 10/04/2016 12:51 PM, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: > >> For server use, I'm not convinced that the offline update > >> mechanism is supported (at the very least, I have no idea how to > >> trigger it), and servers have

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Adam Williamson wrote: > If you're using Workstation, the offline update system is expressly > designed to minimize the likelihood of this kind of problem, so please > do consider using it. In CentOS or Debian I can afford to reboot for every update. With Fedora's rapid stream of updates that's si

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 23:54 +0200, Jens Lody wrote: > Am Tue, 04 Oct 2016 14:22:34 -0700 > schrieb Adam Williamson : > > > On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 22:15 +0100, Tom Hughes wrote: > > > On 04/10/16 22:04, Adam Williamson wrote: > > > > > > > We've pretty much pinned it down, now. The recipe is: hyb

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Am Tue, 04 Oct 2016 14:22:34 -0700 schrieb Adam Williamson : > On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 22:15 +0100, Tom Hughes wrote: > > On 04/10/16 22:04, Adam Williamson wrote: > > > > > We've pretty much pinned it down, now. The recipe is: hybrid > > > graphics + systemd-udev update == X crash. That is, if t

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 14:04 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > > I'm gonna write up a blog post and spread the word about this a bit, > I'll send the link shortly; if people could spread it around that'd be > great. Blog post: https://www.happyassassin.net/2016/10/04/x-crash-during-fedora-update-wh

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 15:29 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: > On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 2:39 PM, Adam Williamson > wrote: > > On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 20:34 +, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > > > I confirm my system, an AMD/AMD hybrid graphics powered laptop, is > > > affected by executing 'systemctl restart

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 2:39 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 20:34 +, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: >> I confirm my system, an AMD/AMD hybrid graphics powered laptop, is >> affected by executing 'systemctl restart systemd-udev- >> trigger.service' as root on desktop. The desktop s

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 22:15 +0100, Tom Hughes wrote: > On 04/10/16 22:04, Adam Williamson wrote: > > > We've pretty much pinned it down, now. The recipe is: hybrid graphics + > > systemd-udev update == X crash. That is, if there's a systemd-udev > > update in the dnf transaction, and the system ha

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

> On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 20:34 +, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > > That's great data, thanks - I'm gonna find a few other people to test, > but it definitely sounds like 'hybrid graphics' is the trigger here. No problem. Glad the data helps. Luya ___ dev

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

> On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 20:34 +, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > > That's great data, thanks - I'm gonna find a few other people to test, > but it definitely sounds like 'hybrid graphics' is the trigger here. No problem. Glad the data helps. Luya ___ dev

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On 04/10/16 22:04, Adam Williamson wrote: We've pretty much pinned it down, now. The recipe is: hybrid graphics + systemd-udev update == X crash. That is, if there's a systemd-udev update in the dnf transaction, and the system has hybrid graphics, and X is running while the update runs, X will c

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 21:54 +0100, Tom Hughes wrote: > > It only ever happens on one of my machines, so it's obviously something > about the environment, possibly the graphics card as that's the only > machine I do this on that has nvidia graphics? > > The weird thing is that there was nothing

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On 04/10/16 16:51, Adam Williamson wrote: Recently several reports of people getting 'duplicated packages' and 'kernel updates not working' have come through to us in QA from Fedora 24 users. I managed to get one reporter to explain more specifically what happened, and it sounds a lot like what'

Re: /sbin/nologin in /etc/shells

>My objection here is roughly the same. /sbin/nologin does not mean >"locked out", it's a non-shell that can serve as a shell. While there >may be some value in chsh disallowing a change *from* /sbin/nologin to >something else by the own user, it's not intended to block any access at >all by a

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

> On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Luya Tshimbalanga > > Likely. It's avoided if you use --only-download, enable the offline > update trigger and reboot. Thanks for the tips. Luya ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe se

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 20:34 +, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > I confirm my system, an AMD/AMD hybrid graphics powered laptop, is > affected by executing 'systemctl restart systemd-udev- > trigger.service' as root on desktop. The desktop session crashed and > the login screen comes afterwards. > The

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

I confirm my system, an AMD/AMD hybrid graphics powered laptop, is affected by executing 'systemctl restart systemd-udev-trigger.service' as root on desktop. The desktop session crashed and the login screen comes afterwards. The same command on a dedicated NVIDIA graphics card is fairly harmless.

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Chris Murphy wrote: > On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 1:57 PM, Gerald B. Cox wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Chris Murphy > > wrote: > >> > >> > >> Like I said, others have been working on this for a while, and they > >> have documented it and they've incl

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 1:57 PM, Gerald B. Cox wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Chris Murphy > wrote: >> >> >> Like I said, others have been working on this for a while, and they >> have documented it and they've included their hard facts. You just >> haven't bothered to make yourself a

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 1:37 PM, Gerald B. Cox wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Chris Murphy > wrote: >> >> > IMHO the risk/benefit ratio is way off on this approach to the problem - >> > but >> > hey, that's just me - and I'm a KDE user who isn't using it. >> >> I think your risk asses

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Chris Murphy wrote: > > Like I said, others have been working on this for a while, and they > have documented it and they've included their hard facts. You just > haven't bothered to make yourself aware of anything beyond your own > experience. > Interesting... I

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 19:34 +, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > Thanks for the warning. Fortunately I frequently run update with Gnome > Software. > Does that issue also affect "pkcon update" command as well? Yes, it would. The issue does have an element of hardware dependence also. What we've wor

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > Thanks for the warning. Fortunately I frequently run update with Gnome > Software. > Does that issue also affect "pkcon update" command as well? Likely. It's avoided if you use --only-download, enable the offline update trigger and reboo

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 11:51 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote: > > I understand the theoretical exposure, but I guess what I'm missing is how > offline updates eliminates that risk? There is still a plethora of things > which could > interfere with a normal completion of the update process. It doesn't e

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Chris Murphy wrote: > > IMHO the risk/benefit ratio is way off on this approach to the problem - > but > > hey, that's just me - and I'm a KDE user who isn't using it. > > I think your risk assessment is deficient and unconvincing. This has > been explained in gre

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Thanks for the warning. Fortunately I frequently run update with Gnome Software. Does that issue also affect "pkcon update" command as well? ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedora

Re: /sbin/nologin in /etc/shells

>Why do people have to think that people are being 'stauch defenders' >when they might just needed a clearer explanation? Stephen, I've been striving to keep my comments technically focused. That remark slipped below my own standards. I didn't mean it as a personal jibe, just a slightly light hear

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On 4 October 2016 at 15:00, Gerald B. Cox wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Chris Murphy > wrote: >> >> >Are we >> > Windows? >> >> Yes, we're Windows. Is that what you want to hear? I don't understand >> why you think this is a question to be taken seriously rather than >> ridiculous.

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Gerald B. Cox wrote: > I understand the theoretical exposure, but I guess what I'm missing is how > offline updates eliminates that risk? The system reboots to system-update.target which is a minimal environment. It's basically the kernel, systemd, rpm and maybe

Re: RFC: Storing Automated Tasks/Tests In Dist-Git

On Mon, Oct 03, 2016 at 08:21:42PM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Mon, Oct 03, 2016 at 01:50:33PM -0600, Tim Flink wrote: > > One of the features for Taskotron that we've been planning since the > > beginning was a way for contributors to maintain their own automated > > tasks/tests

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Michael Cronenworth wrote: > On 10/04/2016 01:19 PM, Chris Murphy wrote: >> >> Strictly speaking it's not necessary for every update, there's just no >> mechanism for knowing for sure what updates entail more risk than >> others. You'll notice that once an applicat

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Chris Murphy wrote: > >Are we > > Windows? > > Yes, we're Windows. Is that what you want to hear? I don't understand > why you think this is a question to be taken seriously rather than > ridiculous. > No, it was a rhetorical question. See my other response. B

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: > The current GNOME update workflow, however, is the most reliable we > have, because it downloads the updates then boots to a minimal systemd > target with as few things running as possible to install the updates, > then boots back to the n

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On 10/04/2016 01:19 PM, Chris Murphy wrote: Strictly speaking it's not necessary for every update, there's just no mechanism for knowing for sure what updates entail more risk than others. You'll notice that once an application is installed, whether by dnf or Gnome Software, it's considered part

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Gerald B. Cox wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote: >> >> >> Well, the problem there, what do you mean by 'support'? >> >> In this case lots of people use dnf for updates, so IMHO it would be >> "we will try and keep this working, and fix

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 14:01 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote: > > I have never heard of anyone reaching out to the KDE PK frontend > developers for supporting this mechanism. As I recall, it required > special development to get working in GNOME Software. Heck, even the > system upgrade stuff required cust

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 04 Oct 2016 08:51:07 -0700 Adam Williamson wrote: > I'm working with the reporter right now to investigate and hopefully > get this fixed, but in the meantime - and this is in fact our standard > advice anyway, but it bears repeating - DON'T RUN 'dnf update' INSIDE > A DESKTOP. I think I

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On 10/04/2016 02:01 PM, Neal Gompa wrote: > On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Adam Williamson > wrote: >> On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 10:39 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote: >> >>> and I have NEVER used the graphical update since the first release of >>> Fedora. I've always used yum or dnf. As I mentioned ear

Re: ... and Fedora 25! - Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 04, 2016 at 12:31:43PM -0500, Ian Pilcher wrote: > On 10/04/2016 11:41 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 18:28 +0200, Karel Volný wrote: > > > or better (IMHO) - run it using `screen` ;-) > > > > I think whether that's better or not depends on exactly how the > > scr

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 10:39 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote: > >> and I have NEVER used the graphical update since the first release of >> Fedora. I've always used yum or dnf. As I mentioned earlier in the past >> I've found the graphical tools

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 10:39 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote: > and I have NEVER used the graphical update since the first release of > Fedora. I've always used yum or dnf. As I mentioned earlier in the past > I've found the graphical tools to be quirky at best - perhaps that has > changed, but since

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > > Well, the problem there, what do you mean by 'support'? > > In this case lots of people use dnf for updates, so IMHO it would be > "we will try and keep this working, and fix anything we can, but do > understand that there's a low level prob

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 11:26 AM, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: > On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote: >> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 09:51:16 -0700 >> Andrew Lutomirski wrote: >> >>> By that standard, why do we support dnf at all? >>> >>> $ sudo dnf upgrade >>> Error: dnf upgrade is dangerous.

Re: ... and Fedora 25! - Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On 10/04/2016 11:41 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 18:28 +0200, Karel Volný wrote: or better (IMHO) - run it using `screen` ;-) I think whether that's better or not depends on exactly how the screen/tmux server process was run... Can you clarify? In what circumstances woul

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 09:51:16 -0700 > Andrew Lutomirski wrote: > >> By that standard, why do we support dnf at all? >> >> $ sudo dnf upgrade >> Error: dnf upgrade is dangerous. Use PackageKit instead and reboot >> when asked. >> >> I, for one,

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On 10/04/2016 01:20 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > On 10/04/2016 12:51 PM, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: >> On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Stephen Gallagher >> wrote: >>> >>> On 10/04/2016 12:06 PM, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: On Oct 4, 2016 8:52 AM, "Adam Williamson" >>>

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On 10/04/2016 12:51 PM, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: > On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: >> >> On 10/04/2016 12:06 PM, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: >>> >>> On Oct 4, 2016 8:52 AM, "Adam Williamson" >> > wrote: Recently several reports of

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On 4 October 2016 at 13:05, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 09:51:16 -0700 > Andrew Lutomirski wrote: > >> By that standard, why do we support dnf at all? >> >> $ sudo dnf upgrade >> Error: dnf upgrade is dangerous. Use PackageKit instead and reboot >> when asked. >> >> I, for one, *like

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 10:51 AM, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: > By that standard, why do we support dnf at all? > > $ sudo dnf upgrade > Error: dnf upgrade is dangerous. Use PackageKit instead and reboot when > asked. Well it's not always risky, it depends on what's being updated. If it's applicat

Re: RFC: Storing Automated Tasks/Tests In Dist-Git

On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 15:57:14 -0600 Tim Flink wrote: > Thanks for the clarification - the emphasis was on coming support for > PRs. I've reworded that part of the proposal to make it more clear > that dist-git isn't "moving to pagure". Thanks. > > > Another alternate here is that we could make t

Fedora Rawhide-20161004.n.0 compose check report

Missing expected images: Kde live i386 Workstation live i386 Kde live x86_64 Cloud_base raw-xz i386 Workstation live x86_64 Failed openQA tests: 57/80 (x86_64), 14/15 (i386) New failures (same test did not fail in Rawhide-20161003.n.1): ID: 38504 Test: x86_64 universal upgrade_desktop_enc

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 09:51:16 -0700 Andrew Lutomirski wrote: > By that standard, why do we support dnf at all? > > $ sudo dnf upgrade > Error: dnf upgrade is dangerous. Use PackageKit instead and reboot > when asked. > > I, for one, *like* not rebooting, and I'm perfectly capable of > rebooting

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > On 10/04/2016 12:06 PM, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: >> >> On Oct 4, 2016 8:52 AM, "Adam Williamson" > > wrote: >>> >>> Recently several reports of people getting 'duplicated packages' and >>> 'kernel update

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > On 10/04/2016 12:06 PM, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: > > > > On Oct 4, 2016 8:52 AM, "Adam Williamson" > > wrote: > >> > >> Recently several reports of people getting 'duplicated packages' and > >> 'kernel

Re: ... and Fedora 25! - Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 18:28 +0200, Karel Volný wrote: > > Recently several reports of people getting 'duplicated packages' and > > 'kernel updates not working' have come through to us in QA from Fedora > > 24 users. I managed to get one reporter to explain more specifically > > what happened, and i

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 9:56 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > On 4 October 2016 at 16:51, Adam Williamson > wrote: >> >> Running the update process inside a desktop just gives it all the more >> opportunity to crash somehow. If the terminal app crashes, the update >> crashes. If the desktop cras

Re: ... and Fedora 25! - Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 18:28 +0200, Karel Volný wrote: > > Recently several reports of people getting 'duplicated packages' and > > 'kernel updates not working' have come through to us in QA from Fedora > > 24 users. I managed to get one reporter to explain more specifically > > what happened, and i

Re: /sbin/nologin in /etc/shells

On 10/3/2016 3:02 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: On 3 October 2016 at 16:53, Toby Goodwin wrote: I was just reviewing this thread to date, and came across somebody asking: How is this a "critical...security hole"? I'm wondering if perhaps some of the staunch defenders of the status quo have

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On 10/04/2016 12:06 PM, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: > > On Oct 4, 2016 8:52 AM, "Adam Williamson" > wrote: >> >> Recently several reports of people getting 'duplicated packages' and >> 'kernel updates not working' have come through to us in QA from Fedora >> 24 use

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: > > On Oct 4, 2016 8:52 AM, "Adam Williamson" > wrote: >> >> Recently several reports of people getting 'duplicated packages' and >> 'kernel updates not working' have come through to us in QA from Fedora >> 24 users. I managed to get one r

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Oct 4, 2016 8:52 AM, "Adam Williamson" wrote: > > Recently several reports of people getting 'duplicated packages' and > 'kernel updates not working' have come through to us in QA from Fedora > 24 users. I managed to get one reporter to explain more specifically > what happened, and it sounds a

Re: PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

On Tue, 2016-10-04 at 16:56 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On 4 October 2016 at 16:51, Adam Williamson > wrote: > > > Running the update process inside a desktop just gives it all the more > > opportunity to crash somehow. If the terminal app crashes, the update > > crashes. If the desktop c

PSA: Do not run 'dnf update' inside GNOME, KDE or any other graphical desktop on Fedora 24

Recently several reports of people getting 'duplicated packages' and 'kernel updates not working' have come through to us in QA from Fedora 24 users. I managed to get one reporter to explain more specifically what happened, and it sounds a lot like what's happening is that something in the 'dnf upd

Fedora 25-20161004.n.0 compose check report

Missing expected images: Cloud_base raw-xz i386 Failed openQA tests: 5/102 (x86_64), 1/17 (i386), 1/2 (arm) New failures (same test did not fail in 25-20161003.n.0): ID: 38574 Test: x86_64 Workstation-boot-iso install_default@uefi URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/38574 ID: 3859

Re: A tale of systemd and MaxProcs

On 09/24/2016 08:34 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 12:18:53PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 12:32:40PM -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote: * IMHO the initial upstream default didn't make sense for Fedora On this specific change, I'm not sure the *u

Re: F26 proposal: Make Fedora Media Writer the officially supported USB install media creator

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 1:46 AM, Kamil Paral wrote: >> > If we do not 'support' livecd-iso-to-disk any more, we no longer >> > support: >> > >> > 1) persistent storage (via overlays) >> > 2) non-destructive write >> >> Does anyone know why we can't have Fedora Media Writer support these >> function

  1   2   >