On 03/08/2010 08:49 PM, bearophile wrote:
Admitted, the last case does not work quite as nicely with ".." as it
does with Python's ":". Still, the point should be clear.
I have never understood why Walter has adopted .. for slices instead of the
better :
I'd like to know why.
Bye,
bearophil
bearophile wrote:
D won't be frozen forever, eventually few new things will be added, for example
in D3. For example probably some of the limits of CTFE will be removed. Even C
language and Fortran keep having changes every ten years or so.
What will be hard to do are changes/removals. It's imp
On 03/08/2010 12:58 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
"Andrej Mitrovic" wrote in message
news:hn3bk0$62...@digitalmars.com...
Is anyone else getting errors with the digitalmars web-news reader? It
seems to fail loading messages quite often for me, e.g.:
"
Fail to get the article: 19062
Bad article nu
Norbert Nemec:
> Just note that the slice operator "a..b"
> should also allow strided slicing "a..b:c"
I have asked for this ages ago :o) But at that time there was no laziness and
ranges in Phobos, so that was not very useful.
> Yea, seems like I missed some important decisions. May indeed be
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 06:57:00 -0500, Hamish McTavish wrote:
> Jane Doe Wrote:
>
>> Is D a cult?
>>
>>
>>
> Who you calling a cult?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
Cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices could be,
reasonably or unreasonably, considered strange. The te
BCS wrote:
What about allowing switch on FP but only allowing CaseRangeStatements?
Is there really a compelling use case for that?
I really think we need to focus on what is needed to be done, not what
can be done. Otherwise we wind up with a huge boatload of features yet
have an unuseful la
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:25:02 +0300, Ary Borenszweig
wrote:
dolive wrote:
Nick Sabalausky дµ½:
"Andrej Mitrovic" wrote in message
news:hn3bk0$62...@digitalmars.com...
Is anyone else getting errors with the digitalmars web-news reader?
It seems to fail loading messages quite often for m
Don wrote:
Norbert Nemec wrote:
The compiler would need to be aware of the data type Slice. It would
therefore have to be something like a "builtin" type. If I am not
mistaken, the language definition so far never makes use of "builtin"
struct types.
You are mistaken .
object, TypeInfo, Asso
Hello Walter,
(Note: switching on floating point values is worse than useless, as
floating point computations rarely produce exact results, and
supporting such a capability will give a false sense that it should
work.)
What about allowing switch on FP but only allowing CaseRangeStatements?
yigal chripun wrote:
Trying to disable == for such structs is a losing battle, anyway,
as the compiler could only detect the most obvious cases. Pass a
reference to it to a function, store it in a data structure, etc.,
and all that goes away.
Ok, that sound's reasonable if you want to keep the
Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
That is, as long as it doesn't
conflict with what the book says, it can be changed. This is why a
complete documentation of phobos is not in the book (parts are
referenced, and those parts must remain frozen).
That's only a small part of the reason why. The main r
Ary Borenszweig дµ½:
> dolive wrote:
> > Nick Sabalausky дµ½:
> >
> >> "Andrej Mitrovic" wrote in message
> >> news:hn3bk0$62...@digitalmars.com...
> >>> Is anyone else getting errors with the digitalmars web-news reader? It
> >>> seems to fail loading messages quite often for me, e.g.:
> >>
grauzone wrote:
Sorry for being dense, but again: what does alignment have to do with
this?
alias TypeTuple!(char, int) TT;
These declarations must be IDENTICAL:
void foo(TT);
void foo(char, int);
struct S { TT t; }
struct S { char t1; int t2; }
This means that if you have an
retard wrote:
This doesn't work, because the alignment is different for different
circumstances.
Where does this requirement come from?
The natural and efficient way to align function parameters on the stack
is different from aligning them for struct fields.
Is there some existing work on
Walter Bright Wrote:
> yigal chripun wrote:
> > The compiler knows at compile-time what variables are initialized with
> > "=void". The compiler than can add a compilation error when such a struct
> > variable is used in an equals expression.
> > this doesn't cover use of malloc() which must be
Lars T. Kyllingstad wrote:
Don wrote:
Norbert Nemec wrote:
Don wrote:
Norbert Nemec wrote:
Hi there,
in implementing multi-dimensional arrays, the current way of
overloading the slicing operator does not scale up.
Currently, there is opIndex working for an arbitrary number of
indices, bu
Don wrote:
Norbert Nemec wrote:
Don wrote:
Norbert Nemec wrote:
Hi there,
in implementing multi-dimensional arrays, the current way of
overloading the slicing operator does not scale up.
Currently, there is opIndex working for an arbitrary number of
indices, but opSlice works only for one
Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 13:21:14 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
Hm... this seems to be a different problem than I originally was
thinking about. So in essence, you want a set of "safe" functions
that will not adversely affect a range
Norbert Nemec wrote:
Don wrote:
Norbert Nemec wrote:
Hi there,
in implementing multi-dimensional arrays, the current way of
overloading the slicing operator does not scale up.
Currently, there is opIndex working for an arbitrary number of
indices, but opSlice works only for one dimension.
Guess it's better to post this here. Are these some bugs or is there another
problem?
the following code strangely yields:
dsfml\system\vector2.d(47): Error: variable
dsfml.system.vector2.Vector2!(float).Vector2.op only parameters or foreach
declarations can be ref
/// element-wise operations,
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 13:21:14 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
Hm... this seems to be a different problem than I originally was
thinking about. So in essence, you want a set of "safe" functions that
will not adversely affect a range you are using to iterate w
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:20:00 +0100, Andrej Mitrovic
wrote:
Is anyone else getting errors with the digitalmars web-news reader? It
seems to fail loading messages quite often for me, e.g.:
"
Fail to get the article: 19062
Bad article number
"
I guess I could use a proper news reader to avoi
On 2010-03-08 13:01:32 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu
said:
softXxx functions that remove data should guarantee that existing
ranges not including the removed elements will continue to operate on
the range without seeing the removed elements. There is no guarantee
that soft removal offers for ra
dolive wrote:
Nick Sabalausky дµ½:
"Andrej Mitrovic" wrote in message
news:hn3bk0$62...@digitalmars.com...
Is anyone else getting errors with the digitalmars web-news reader? It
seems to fail loading messages quite often for me, e.g.:
"
Fail to get the article: 19062
Bad article number
"
Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:53:40 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:43:09 -0500, Robert Jacques
wrote:
On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 08:23:03 -0500, Steven Schveighoffer
wrote:
What is the advantage? Why would an algorithm
Nick Sabalausky дµ½:
> "Andrej Mitrovic" wrote in message
> news:hn3bk0$62...@digitalmars.com...
> > Is anyone else getting errors with the digitalmars web-news reader? It
> > seems to fail loading messages quite often for me, e.g.:
> >
> > "
> > Fail to get the article: 19062
> > Bad article
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:53:40 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:43:09 -0500, Robert Jacques
wrote:
On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 08:23:03 -0500, Steven Schveighoffer
wrote:
What is the advantage? Why would an algorithm require soft
functions?
Joel C. Salomon wrote:
On 3/6/2010 5:18 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Good question. In STL, invalidation roughly means undefined behavior if
you use it. With GC in tow, the concept could be significantly milder.
For example, reallocating an array would leave the old contents of the
array sort
Fawzi Mohamed wrote:
On 2010-03-07 14:23:03 +0100, Steven Schveighoffer
said:
Robert Jacques Wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2010 21:54:50 -0500, Steven Schveighoffer
wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2010 11:19:15 -0500, Robert Jacques
wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2010 08:19:36 -0500, Steven Schveighoffer
wrote:
"Andrej Mitrovic" wrote in message
news:hn3bk0$62...@digitalmars.com...
> Is anyone else getting errors with the digitalmars web-news reader? It
> seems to fail loading messages quite often for me, e.g.:
>
> "
> Fail to get the article: 19062
> Bad article number
> "
>
> I guess I could use a pr
Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:43:09 -0500, Robert Jacques
wrote:
On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 08:23:03 -0500, Steven Schveighoffer
wrote:
What is the advantage? Why would an algorithm require soft
functions? What is an example of such an algorithm?
Something that uses toUppe
On 3/6/2010 5:18 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> Good question. In STL, invalidation roughly means undefined behavior if
> you use it. With GC in tow, the concept could be significantly milder.
> For example, reallocating an array would leave the old contents of the
> array sort of around, just ob
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:20:00 +0300, Andrej Mitrovic
wrote:
Is anyone else getting errors with the digitalmars web-news reader? It
seems to fail loading messages quite often for me, e.g.:
"
Fail to get the article: 19062
Bad article number
"
I guess I could use a proper news reader to avoi
Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 06:42:10 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Iterator invalidation has been a notion thoroughly explored by the STL
and a commonly-mentioned liability of STL iterators. People find it
very jarring that syntactically identical interfaces have dis
Don wrote:
Norbert Nemec wrote:
Hi there,
in implementing multi-dimensional arrays, the current way of
overloading the slicing operator does not scale up.
Currently, there is opIndex working for an arbitrary number of
indices, but opSlice works only for one dimension. Ultimately, it
should
dsimcha wrote:
== Quote from Robert Jacques (sandf...@jhu.edu)'s article
The mutation index has been used in Tango forever, and I think was in
Doug Lea's original container implementations. I'm pretty sure it is
sound in single-threaded uses.
No it's not. version tags + integer overflow = bug.
Is anyone else getting errors with the digitalmars web-news reader? It seems to
fail loading messages quite often for me, e.g.:
"
Fail to get the article: 19062
Bad article number
"
I guess I could use a proper news reader to avoid these issues. Any
recommendations for newsreader software on Wi
Walter Bright wrote:
Fawzi Mohamed wrote:
one could argue that the unsafe operation is memset.
That's right.
The compiler always initializes a struct, so that what you describe
should never happen in a safe program.
Right.
Still as you say the following example that might indeed conside
On 2010-03-08 09:55:53 -0500, Don said:
However, Andrei argued that slicing of multidimensional arrays is so
rarely used that syntax sugar is not necessary. Thus, it's not in D2.
And that's sad, because there are many other uses for a Slice struct.
--
Michel Fortin
michel.for...@michelf.com
Norbert Nemec wrote:
Hi there,
in implementing multi-dimensional arrays, the current way of overloading
the slicing operator does not scale up.
Currently, there is opIndex working for an arbitrary number of indices,
but opSlice works only for one dimension. Ultimately, it should be
possible
On 2010-03-08 06:37:55 -0500, Walter Bright said:
grauzone wrote:
I don't understand, what does alignment have to do with such a high
level construct?
You can use a tuple to populate a struct with fields, and it's
interchangeable with manually populating the fields. You can also use a
tupl
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 07:51:31 -0500, grauzone wrote:
bearophile wrote:
grauzone:
That aside, I'm also glad that you acknowledge that current tuples are
not perfect and need improvement.
I agree.
It's probably already too late to fix them,<
It isn't.
D2 is pretty much finalized now. Th
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 15:49:01 +0300, retard wrote:
Mon, 08 Mar 2010 04:42:48 -0800, Walter Bright wrote:
grauzone wrote:
Again, I can't understand. Does the compiler rely that tuples have the
same byte layout as structs or function arguments? I thought the
compiler could just copy all fields.
Walter Bright wrote:
grauzone wrote:
Again, I can't understand. Does the compiler rely that tuples have the
same byte layout as structs or function arguments? I thought the
compiler could just copy all fields. And the backend can already
return multiple values, since it can return structs and
bearophile wrote:
grauzone:
That aside, I'm also glad that you acknowledge that current tuples are
not perfect and need improvement.
I agree.
It's probably already too late to fix them,<
It isn't.
D2 is pretty much finalized now. The discussion (i.e. bikeshedding)
alone to determine ho
Walter Bright:
> It can, but I don't agree that it should. For an =void initialization,
> it's the user's responsibility to initialize it properly. The use of
> =void implies the user knows what he's doing with it, and will take care
> to initialize the 'holes' as necessary.
I don't fully like
Mon, 08 Mar 2010 04:42:48 -0800, Walter Bright wrote:
> grauzone wrote:
>> Again, I can't understand. Does the compiler rely that tuples have the
>> same byte layout as structs or function arguments? I thought the
>> compiler could just copy all fields. And the backend can already return
>> multip
grauzone wrote:
Again, I can't understand. Does the compiler rely that tuples have the
same byte layout as structs or function arguments? I thought the
compiler could just copy all fields. And the backend can already return
multiple values, since it can return structs and static arrays.
A tup
Walter Bright wrote:
foo match {
case b: Bar => b.doBarMethod
case b: Bar2 => b.doBar2Method
case _ => println("Oh no!")
}
(1, (1,2)) match {
case (1, (1, _)) => println("nice tuple")
case _ =>
}
def main(args: Array[Byte]) =
args(0) match {
case "-help" => println("Usage: ...
grauzone:
> That aside, I'm also glad that you acknowledge that current tuples are
> not perfect and need improvement.
I agree.
>It's probably already too late to fix them,<
It isn't.
>but you could always introduce a second, proper tuple type.<
NO. Not even think about that. Two kinds of t
Hi there,
in implementing multi-dimensional arrays, the current way of overloading
the slicing operator does not scale up.
Currently, there is opIndex working for an arbitrary number of indices,
but opSlice works only for one dimension. Ultimately, it should be
possible to allow slicing for
Mon, 08 Mar 2010 03:35:56 -0800, Walter Bright wrote:
> retard wrote:
>>> I've thought more than once about adding that, but it just seems
>>> pointless. I've never run into a use case for it. If you do run into
>>> one,
>>>
>>> if (ar == [1,2,3]) ...
>>> else if (ar == [1,2,4]) ...
>>>
Jane Doe Wrote:
> Is D a cult?
>
>
Who you calling a cult?
Walter Bright wrote:
grauzone wrote:
Walter Bright wrote:
bearophile wrote:
Walter Bright:
There are significant technical problems with having functions
return tuples.<
A possibly stupid question: isn't it enough to return a custom struct?
No, because of the alignment mismatches with oth
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 06:15:16 -0500, Norbert Nemec
wrote:
I just read through the specs about operators and found a strangeness in
the definition of opCmp:
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/operatoroverloading.html#compare
Mathematically the following are equivalent
a < b <=>
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 00:20:31 -0500, Robert Jacques
wrote:
On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 22:07:14 -0500, Steven Schveighoffer
wrote:
On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:43:09 -0500, Robert Jacques
wrote:
On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 08:23:03 -0500, Steven Schveighoffer
wrote:
[snip]
Please define for me an O(1) slic
grauzone wrote:
Walter Bright wrote:
bearophile wrote:
Walter Bright:
There are significant technical problems with having functions
return tuples.<
A possibly stupid question: isn't it enough to return a custom struct?
No, because of the alignment mismatches with other uses of tuples.
I
retard wrote:
I've thought more than once about adding that, but it just seems
pointless. I've never run into a use case for it. If you do run into
one,
if (ar == [1,2,3]) ...
else if (ar == [1,2,4]) ...
else if (ar == [1,3,2]) ...
will work just fine.
The same can be said abou
Simen kjaeraas wrote:
Walter Bright wrote:
My experience with shallow const (in C++) is that it's nearly useless.
Most C++ code I've seen seems to rely on an implicit assumption of
transitive const, but it isn't in the documentation and of course you
don't know if it is upheld or not. This is
yigal chripun wrote:
The compiler knows at compile-time what variables are initialized with "=void". The compiler than can add a compilation error when such a struct variable is used in an equals expression.
this doesn't cover use of malloc() which must be the user's responsebility.
e.g.
S s1
I just read through the specs about operators and found a strangeness in
the definition of opCmp:
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/operatoroverloading.html#compare
Mathematically the following are equivalent
a < b <=> b > a
But the definition seems to swap
a < b
Spend last night reading about this new language. Has a lot of neat features,
but is still missing some important stuff (will be added).
http://force7.de/nimrod/
Thanks Lars, sounds cool. :-)
Lars T. Kyllingstad wrote:
Joel Christensen wrote:
How does it work?
I couldn't even see it. Not in the windows\bin directory or the dmd help.
It's built into the compiler. :)
test.d:
struct S
{
int fooBar;
}
void main()
{
S
Joel Christensen wrote:
How does it work?
I couldn't even see it. Not in the windows\bin directory or the dmd help.
It's built into the compiler. :)
test.d:
struct S
{
int fooBar;
}
void main()
{
S s;
s.fooBaz = 1;
}
Compilation:
dmd test.d
How does it work?
I couldn't even see it. Not in the windows\bin directory or the dmd help.
Sun, 07 Mar 2010 22:05:19 -0800, Walter Bright wrote:
> BCS wrote:
>> I think what retard was asking was what types are legal as the argument
>> for a switch?
>>
>> IIRC the list is: all the arithmetic types and the string types.
>>
>> The value pattern matching that is being asked for would all
Mon, 08 Mar 2010 09:27:34 +0100, grauzone wrote:
> Walter Bright wrote:
>> bearophile wrote:
>>> Walter Bright:
There are significant technical problems with having functions return
tuples.<
>>>
>>> A possibly stupid question: isn't it enough to return a custom struct?
>>
>> No, because
Lutger wrote:
Michael Rynn wrote:
That IS what Walter thinks, actually. It's being moved to libraries
(which is why there have been some nasty AA regressions in the past few
compiler releases :-( ).
Sounds good. So the source is in druntime?
Does that mean I can find out how to implement opIn
Walter Bright wrote:
retard wrote:
On the other hand Scala does provide a shallow form of immutability and
some immutable data structures in the standard library.
My experience with shallow const (in C++) is that it's nearly useless.
Most C++ code I've seen seems to rely on an implicit as
Walter Bright wrote:
bearophile wrote:
Walter Bright:
There are significant technical problems with having functions return
tuples.<
A possibly stupid question: isn't it enough to return a custom struct?
No, because of the alignment mismatches with other uses of tuples.
I don't understand
Nick Sabalausky Wrote:
> "Nick Sabalausky" wrote in message
> news:hmsqdk$9u...@digitalmars.com...
> >
> > "bearophile" wrote in message
> > news:hmrtbk$1ao...@digitalmars.com...
> >>
> >> A bit later in the discussion div0 and Pelle M. have said/suggested that
> >> accessing static vars thro
Michael Rynn wrote:
>
>> That IS what Walter thinks, actually. It's being moved to libraries
>> (which is why there have been some nasty AA regressions in the past few
>> compiler releases :-( ).
>
> Sounds good. So the source is in druntime?
> Does that mean I can find out how to implement opI
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