On Monday, 23 February 2015 at 05:54:06 UTC, Manu wrote:
On 23 February 2015 at 14:11, Andrei Alexandrescu via
Digitalmars-d
wrote:
On 2/22/15 5:57 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
I can easily visualise a way forward with RC.
Then do it. Frankly it seems to me you're doing anything you
On 2/22/2015 9:53 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
It's got nothing to do with doing work. ARC (or something like it) is
almost religiously opposed. We can't even have a reasonable
conversation about it, or really explore it's implications before
someone (that ideally know's what they're doing)
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 22:27:42 UTC, Raphaël Jakse wrote:
Le 22/02/2015 14:00, Olivier Pisano a écrit :
I did send you a first draft of the variable number of
parameters
chapter on Friday, on your gmail address. Did you get it ?
Yes, I thought I answered to your mail. Sorry if I didn'
On 23 February 2015 at 14:11, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> On 2/22/15 5:57 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>>
>> I can easily visualise a way forward with RC.
>
>
> Then do it. Frankly it seems to me you're doing anything you possibly can to
> talk yourself out of doing work.
On 23/02/2015 5:28 p.m., Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
On Monday, 23 February 2015 at 02:25:24 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote:
An interesting topic could definitely be web development in D. Could
bring up issues all the way to CTFE'ing templates.
Indeed. I'd prolly be the boring conservative in that bunch
On Monday, 23 February 2015 at 04:28:34 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
On Monday, 23 February 2015 at 02:25:24 UTC, Rikki Cattermole
wrote:
An interesting topic could definitely be web development in D.
Could bring up issues all the way to CTFE'ing templates.
Indeed. I'd prolly be the boring conser
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 20:48:58 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
What ??? That mean writing all library code twice, for client
that want
GC and for these who don't.
I'm not 100% convinced but it seems to me RC vs. GC is a class
design time decision.
The right strategy for memory ma
On Monday, 23 February 2015 at 01:41:17 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
On Monday, 23 February 2015 at 01:38:35 UTC, Manu wrote:
All my ref counting types fiddle with the ref in every
assignment, or every function call and return.
Hmm, the optimizer could potentially tell "inc X; dec X;" is
useless
On Monday, 23 February 2015 at 02:25:24 UTC, Rikki Cattermole
wrote:
An interesting topic could definitely be web development in D.
Could bring up issues all the way to CTFE'ing templates.
Indeed. I'd prolly be the boring conservative in that bunch, my
web libs don't do anything special... exc
On 2/22/15 5:57 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
I can easily visualise a way forward with RC.
Then do it. Frankly it seems to me you're doing anything you possibly
can to talk yourself out of doing work.
Andrei
On 2/22/2015 4:03 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Speakers get travel reimbursement. If you are using D and have something
interesting to share, a DConf 2015 submission is the single best thing to do for
D and its community.
I'll add that a LOT of you are working on projects that are of great in
On 23/02/2015 2:51 p.m., Brian Schott wrote:
On Monday, 23 February 2015 at 01:30:42 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
I could prolly do two talks... especially if someone else wants to
suggest a topic. Heck, I could improvise in a round table or something
too.
A round table could be fun. We'd just ha
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 00:48:42 +, bitwise wrote:
> I don't like the idea of having a resumable function look like a regular
> delegate. There would be no clean way to check when the resumable
> function had finished.
you don't need to. if you really need to do that, you're doing something
wron
On 23 February 2015 at 03:13, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> On 2/22/15 8:36 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>>
>> On 22 February 2015 at 13:53, Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Manu via Digitalmars-d" wrote in message
>>> news:mailman.7037.1424565826.9932.dig
On Monday, 23 February 2015 at 01:30:42 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
I could prolly do two talks... especially if someone else wants
to suggest a topic. Heck, I could improvise in a round table or
something too.
A round table could be fun. We'd just have to find a sufficiently
subtle troll to mo
On 23 February 2015 at 11:41, Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> On Monday, 23 February 2015 at 01:38:35 UTC, Manu wrote:
>>
>> All my ref counting types fiddle with the ref in every assignment, or
>> every function call and return.
>
>
> Hmm, the optimizer could potentially tell "inc X; dec
On Monday, 23 February 2015 at 01:38:35 UTC, Manu wrote:
All my ref counting types fiddle with the ref in every
assignment, or every function call and return.
Hmm, the optimizer could potentially tell "inc X; dec X;" is
useless and remove it without knowing what it is for.
On 23 February 2015 at 07:47, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> On 2/22/2015 8:36 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>>
>> I have no idea where to start.
>
>
> Start by making a ref counted type and see what the pain points are.
All my ref counting types fiddle with the ref in every assignm
On 23 February 2015 at 06:49, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> On 2/22/2015 8:15 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>>
>> I can't overload on 'scope'. How can I create a scope
>> constructor/destructor/postblit that doesn't perform the ref fiddling?
>
>
> I don't understand what you're tryi
I could prolly do two talks... especially if someone else wants
to suggest a topic. Heck, I could improvise in a round table or
something too.
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 03:35:28 UTC, ketmar wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2015 21:19:32 +, bitwise wrote:
Input on this would be appreciated.
it seems to me that you can "abuse" delegates for this (i mean
the
underlying "fat pointer"). resumable function can create
closure (i think
all
On 23/02/2015 1:03 p.m., Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Hi folks,
At this point we don't have enough submissions to make DConf 2015
viable. Those we have are of good quality, but simply put more are needed.
We're counting on our core community (i.e. frequent contributors to this
forum) to both par
Sent
Hi folks,
At this point we don't have enough submissions to make DConf 2015
viable. Those we have are of good quality, but simply put more are needed.
We're counting on our core community (i.e. frequent contributors to this
forum) to both participate and spread the news about the conference.
Le 22/02/2015 14:00, Olivier Pisano a écrit :
I did send you a first draft of the variable number of parameters
chapter on Friday, on your gmail address. Did you get it ?
Yes, I thought I answered to your mail. Sorry if I didn't.
I read it quickly, it looks very well. Great, thank you very muc
On 2/22/2015 8:36 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
I have no idea where to start.
Start by making a ref counted type and see what the pain points are.
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 02:09:49 +1100, Daniel Murphy wrote:
> "Vladimir Panteleev" wrote in message
> news:ueqnmyfvntkjybclh...@forum.dlang.org...
>
>> -I.. should fix that, I think
>
> It would if the package was called 'src'.
isn't it time to introduce a new cli flag: "directory alias"? somethi
On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 09:59:35 +, ponce wrote:
> On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 02:27:30 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote:
>> On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 01:24:09 UTC, Almighty Bob wrote:
>>> a += b; // Compiles with no ERROR!
>>>
>>> Please tell me that's a bug?
>>
>> Not a bug. From spec:
>>
>> h
On 2/22/2015 8:15 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
I can't overload on 'scope'. How can I create a scope
constructor/destructor/postblit that doesn't perform the ref fiddling?
I don't understand what you're trying to do.
On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 21:08:34 +0100, Daniel Kozak via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> nothing has change because you dont assign anything to v so I guess you
> mean this code?:
i was trying to be smart, and failed. and i have a bad habit of noticing
my dumbyness right after i pressed ctrl+enter.
signatur
On 2/22/2015 3:19 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
On 2015-02-22 03:23, Walter Bright wrote:
- RC has further performance and code bloat problems when used with
exception handling
Exceptions in Objective-C are basically like Errors in D. Should not be caught
and should terminate the applications.
S
On 2/22/15 10:26 AM, deadalnix wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 17:01:45 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Consider
class C { ... client code ... }
alias T = RefCounted!C;
... more client code ...
For reference counting to work transparently, access to the symbol "C"
must be restricted. Ref
ketmar via Digitalmars-d píše v Ne 22. 02. 2015 v 03:15 +:
> On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 02:27:29 +, Peter Alexander wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 01:24:09 UTC, Almighty Bob wrote:
> >> a += b; // Compiles with no ERROR!
> >>
> >> Please tell me that's a bug?
> >
> > Not a bug. From
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 14:18:24 UTC, Peter Alexander
wrote:
If VRP is unknown then it should be disallowed for precisely
that reason! It can't implicitly cast back to a byte, so it
shouldn't. If you know that the int fits in a byte then do the
cast yourself, that's what it's for.
Ques
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 17:01:45 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Consider
class C { ... client code ... }
alias T = RefCounted!C;
... more client code ...
For reference counting to work transparently, access to the
symbol "C" must be restricted. RefCounted obviously needs
access to it.
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 16:15:44 UTC, Manu wrote:
I can't overload on 'scope'. How can I create a scope
constructor/destructor/postblit that doesn't perform the ref
fiddling?
On a tangent, can I pass rvalues to ref args now? That will
massively
sanitise linear algebra (matrix/vector)
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 16:37:15 UTC, Manu wrote:
But it IS a way forwards... can you suggest another way
forwards using
a sufficiently fancy GC? While there are no visible
alternatives (as
has been the case for as long as I've been here), I don't think
complexity can be considered a roa
On 2/22/15 8:36 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
On 22 February 2015 at 13:53, Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
"Manu via Digitalmars-d" wrote in message
news:mailman.7037.1424565826.9932.digitalmar...@puremagic.com...
I personally think ARC in D is the only way forwards. That is an
u
On 2/22/15 7:16 AM, Daniel Murphy wrote:
"Benjamin Thaut" wrote in message news:mcco2v$1bpg$1...@digitalmars.com...
Are there any performance comparisons? E.g. how long das DDMD take to
compile phobos vs regular DMD?
Some numbers can easily be gathered from looking at the autotester times.
On 2/22/15 6:49 AM, "Marc =?UTF-8?B?U2Now7x0eiI=?= "
wrote:
No. There's also returning the reference from a member function, storing
it in a passed-in reference (pointer, ref, out or slice), and passing it
to other functions that in turn leak the reference, as well as throwing
it. And leaking cl
On 2/22/15 3:39 AM, John Colvin wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 00:43:47 UTC, Manu wrote:
On 22 February 2015 at 05:20, JN via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=02202015a
Interesting...
Apple is dropping GC in favor of automatic reference counting. What
are the
On 22 February 2015 at 21:31, Jakob Ovrum via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 00:43:47 UTC, Manu wrote:
>>
>> D's GC is terrible, and after 6 years hanging out in this place, I
>> have seen precisely zero development on the GC front.
>
>
> You must have missed RTInfo, Rainer'
On 22 February 2015 at 14:25, deadalnix via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 00:43:47 UTC, Manu wrote:
>>
>> I personally think ARC in D is the only way forwards. That is an
>> unpopular opinion however... although I think I'm just being realistic
>> ;)
>
>
> I've considered a
On 22 February 2015 at 13:53, Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> "Manu via Digitalmars-d" wrote in message
> news:mailman.7037.1424565826.9932.digitalmar...@puremagic.com...
>
>> I personally think ARC in D is the only way forwards. That is an
>> unpopular opinion however... although I thin
On 22 February 2015 at 12:13, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> On 2/21/2015 4:43 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>>
>> D's GC is terrible, and after 6 years hanging out in this place, I
>> have seen precisely zero development on the GC front. Nobody can even
>> imagine, let alone success
"Andrei Alexandrescu" wrote in message
news:mccu03$1ger$1...@digitalmars.com...
I think we should target 2.068 at the earliest. -- Andrei
Oh yeah, certainly not as the default. But we could provide an experimental
zip that lets people try out ddmd with their projects.
"Joakim" wrote in message news:tyyiuqdewulqpikhi...@forum.dlang.org...
I hope it goes through more quickly from now on.
Haha we'll see.
Second, this would be a great opportunity to benchmark ddmd with some of
the comparisons bearophile asked for and write something up with the
results. It
On 2/21/15 7:09 PM, Daniel Murphy wrote:
"Jeremy DeHaan" wrote in message
news:wsowtbjrocqkdpnhf...@forum.dlang.org...
This is awesome! Does that mean we're going to see a DDMD release for
2.067?
It's possible if someone wants to update the release scripts and
coordinate with Martin.
I thi
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 14:54:26 UTC, Peter Alexander
wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 14:49:37 UTC, Marc Schütz wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 14:41:43 UTC, Peter Alexander
wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 04:19:32 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
On Saturday, 21 February 2015 at
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 03:32:38 UTC, Daniel Murphy wrote:
The next step is probably to get
https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dmd/pull/3970 in, and
force everybody to get their host D toolchain configured.
I'm all for doing that once the 2.067-related dust has settled
down.
D
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 12:55:17 UTC, Benjamin Thaut wrote:
1) We need full percise pointer discovery, even for pointers on
the stack.
2) We need write barriers.
1) Is a really complex task for a language like D. There is a
reason why java has so a small feature set.
Worse than comple
"Benjamin Thaut" wrote in message news:mcco2v$1bpg$1...@digitalmars.com...
Are there any performance comparisons? E.g. how long das DDMD take to
compile phobos vs regular DMD?
Some numbers can easily be gathered from looking at the autotester times.
https://auto-tester.puremagic.com/?project
"Vladimir Panteleev" wrote in message
news:ueqnmyfvntkjybclh...@forum.dlang.org...
-I.. should fix that, I think
It would if the package was called 'src'.
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 14:49:37 UTC, Marc Schütz wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 14:41:43 UTC, Peter Alexander
wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 04:19:32 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
On Saturday, 21 February 2015 at 22:13:09 UTC, Peter
Alexander wrote:
malloc+free can be trusted if w
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 14:18:31 UTC, bearophile wrote:
Benjamin Thaut:
Are there any performance comparisons? E.g. how long das DDMD
take to compile phobos vs regular DMD?
Yes, there are several performance comparisons I'm curious
about, like binary size, compilation speed, compilati
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 14:41:43 UTC, Peter Alexander
wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 04:19:32 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
On Saturday, 21 February 2015 at 22:13:09 UTC, Peter Alexander
wrote:
malloc+free can be trusted if wrapped in something like a ref
counted pointer, no?
Foo bazoom
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 04:19:32 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
On Saturday, 21 February 2015 at 22:13:09 UTC, Peter Alexander
wrote:
malloc+free can be trusted if wrapped in something like a ref
counted pointer, no?
Foo bazoom;
class Foo {
void bar() {
bazoom = this;
}
}
void
Benjamin Thaut:
Are there any performance comparisons? E.g. how long das DDMD
take to compile phobos vs regular DMD?
Yes, there are several performance comparisons I'm curious about,
like binary size, compilation speed, compilation speed of the
compiler, max memory to compile Phobos without
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 07:11:24 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 02:27:30 UTC, Peter Alexander
wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 01:24:09 UTC, Almighty Bob
wrote:
a += b; // Compiles with no ERROR!
Please tell me that's a bug?
Not a bug. From spec:
http://dla
Am 21.02.2015 um 15:02 schrieb Daniel Murphy:
https://auto-tester.puremagic.com/?projectid=10
This is a pretty big milestone for the project. For the first time, an
unpatched dmd can build ddmd, and that ddmd can build druntime and
phobos and pass all the test suites.
Hopefully in the next cou
Congratulations!!!
I did send you a first draft of the variable number of parameters
chapter on Friday, on your gmail address. Did you get it ?
Am 22.02.2015 um 10:48 schrieb Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d:
On Sun, 2015-02-22 at 10:21 +0100, Benjamin Thaut via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
Am 22.02.2015 um 03:13 schrieb Walter Bright:
Nobody thinks GC is suitable for hard realtime.
I think you should know manu good enough by now that you kn
On Saturday, 21 February 2015 at 16:17:03 UTC, Daniel Murphy
wrote:
almost works now, except I recently put all the source into a
'ddmd' package and now rdmd can't find it as it's not in a
'ddmd' directory.
-I.. should fix that, I think
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 00:43:47 UTC, Manu wrote:
On 22 February 2015 at 05:20, JN via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=02202015a
Interesting...
Apple is dropping GC in favor of automatic reference counting.
What are the
benefits of ARC over GC? Is it just abo
On 2/22/15, deadalnix via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> 2 years ago, I had this discussion with Andrej
Nope. Andrei. :p
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 00:43:47 UTC, Manu wrote:
D's GC is terrible, and after 6 years hanging out in this
place, I
have seen precisely zero development on the GC front.
You must have missed RTInfo, Rainer's precise heap scanner and
Sociomantic's concurrent GC.
On 2015-02-22 10:48, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
If the D GC really is quite so bad, why hasn't a cabal formed to create
a new GC that is precise, fast and efficient?
It's like with everything else that hasn't been done. No one has cared
enough do to something about it.
There are
On 2015-02-22 03:23, Walter Bright wrote:
- RC has further performance and code bloat problems when used with
exception handling
Exceptions in Objective-C are basically like Errors in D. Should not be
caught and should terminate the applications.
Swift doesn't event have exceptions.
--
/Ja
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 09:59:36 UTC, ponce wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 02:27:30 UTC, Peter Alexander
wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 01:24:09 UTC, Almighty Bob
wrote:
are semantically equivalent to:
a = cast(typeof(a))(a op b)
Seems questionable to me. Anyone know t
"deadalnix" wrote in message news:wzpgqlnevhdmhsylu...@forum.dlang.org...
The rationale make sens for things like :
byte a; a += 1;
Here, because of type promotion, a + 1 is an int, and if VRP of a is
unknown, you can't cast implicitly back to byte.
It is true that this create questionable
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 02:32:38 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 02:15:29 UTC, Almighty Bob wrote:
what bothers me is any automatic conversion from float to int.
It should never be automatic.
Should 5.5 + 5 compile? I suppose it arguably shouldn't but
that'd pr
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 09:48:16 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
On Sun, 2015-02-22 at 10:21 +0100, Benjamin Thaut via
Digitalmars-d
wrote:
Am 22.02.2015 um 03:13 schrieb Walter Bright:
>
> Nobody thinks GC is suitable for hard realtime.
I think you should know manu good enough by now that yo
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 02:27:30 UTC, Peter Alexander
wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 01:24:09 UTC, Almighty Bob wrote:
a += b; // Compiles with no ERROR!
Please tell me that's a bug?
Not a bug. From spec:
http://dlang.org/expression.html#AssignExpression
Assignment operator ex
On Sun, 2015-02-22 at 10:21 +0100, Benjamin Thaut via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> Am 22.02.2015 um 03:13 schrieb Walter Bright:
> >
> > Nobody thinks GC is suitable for hard realtime.
>
> I think you should know manu good enough by now that you know he is not
> talking about hard realtime but soft rea
Am 22.02.2015 um 03:13 schrieb Walter Bright:
Nobody thinks GC is suitable for hard realtime.
I think you should know manu good enough by now that you know he is not
talking about hard realtime but soft realtime instead. (e.g. games)
There are GCs which handle this situation pretty well but
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 02:20:03 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 02:14:04 UTC, Walter Bright
wrote:
With 'return ref', which is now implemented, you can create a
memory safe RefCounted type. However, nobody has bothered. Are
you up for it? :-)
wait what? These
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 06:37:45 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 2/21/2015 10:07 PM, weaselcat wrote:
Excuse my ignorance,(I read the DIP btw)
How does 'return ref' address issues like
http://forum.dlang.org/thread/pagpusgpyhlhoipld...@forum.dlang.org#post-ewuwphzmubtmykfsywuw:40forum.dlang.
On 2/21/2015 11:06 PM, deadalnix wrote:
On Sunday, 22 February 2015 at 06:37:45 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 2/21/2015 10:07 PM, weaselcat wrote:
Excuse my ignorance,(I read the DIP btw)
How does 'return ref' address issues like
http://forum.dlang.org/thread/pagpusgpyhlhoipld...@forum.dlang.org
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