Re: forums, mailing lists and other tools

Hello there! > On 16. Jan 2018, at 13:57, Max Mehl wrote: > > # Daniel Pocock [2018-01-16 13:43 +0100]: >>> Discourse is somewhat overwork as we would have to patch various parts >>> of it to either remove JS or free/libreate it. >> Would packaging the Discourse JavaScript into Debian satisfy th

Re: forums, mailing lists and other tools

On 18/01/18 10:13, Mirko Boehm wrote: > Hello there! > >> On 16. Jan 2018, at 13:57, Max Mehl > > wrote: >> >> # Daniel Pocock [2018-01-16 13:43 +0100]: Discourse is somewhat overwork as we would have to patch various parts of it to either remove JS or free/li

Re: forums, mailing lists and other tools

Hello, > On 18. Jan 2018, at 10:28, Daniel Pocock wrote: > >> The client-side Javascript to me is not a >> relevant issue anymore since JS is an open standard and browsers are >> sandboxed these days. >> > > > There is an issue: > a) if the JavaScript is distributed as minified blobs and we c

Re: forums, mailing lists and other tools

On 18/01/18 10:38, Mirko Boehm wrote: > Hello, > >> On 18. Jan 2018, at 10:28, Daniel Pocock > > wrote: >> >>> The client-side Javascript to me is not a >>> relevant issue anymore since JS is an open standard and browsers are >>> sandboxed these days. >>> >> >> >> There

Re: forums, mailing lists and other tools

Hi, > On 18. Jan 2018, at 10:45, Daniel Pocock wrote: > > The real questions: > > - can you trust a container to be available in the future the same > extent that you can trust a package in a stable Linux distribution? > > - can you trust upstream developers to ensure they never put anything

Re: breaking bad habits like Doodle and Facebook with, plugins?

> [...] > help people avoid visiting or linking to things like Facebook, Meetup, > Twitter and Doodle? > [...] > As well as blocking, does it give the user any encouragement to use alternatives? > is there a way a plugin could reward people for doing the right thing? > Rewards are more effecti

Re: breaking bad habits like Doodle and Facebook with, plugins?

On 18/01/18 11:30, Mat Witts wrote: >> [...] >> help people avoid visiting or linking to things like Facebook, Meetup, >> Twitter and Doodle? >> [...] > >> As well as blocking, does it give the user any encouragement to use > alternatives? > >> is there a way a plugin could reward people for d

Re: forums, mailing lists and other tools

On 01/18/2018 11:02 AM, Mirko Boehm wrote: Hi, On 18. Jan 2018, at 10:45, Daniel Pocock > wrote: The real questions: - can you trust a container to be available in the future the same extent that you can trust a package in a stable Linux distribution? - can you tr

Re: breaking bad habits like Doodle and Facebook with, plugins?

Je 2018-01-18 10:30:47, Mat Witts skribis: > This type of complaint in the context of software is that an > individuals or corporate's right to develop proprietary software is > being 'drowned out' or 'silenced' by all this talk of software > freedom. > > The argument is advanced by showing how ex

Re: forums, mailing lists and other tools

On 18/01/18 12:14, Carsten Agger wrote: > 2. However, I find containers to be black magic. How can you trust them > to be 100% free software if you don't build them yourself? I honestly > don't know if Debian's packaging model is a perfect fit for distributing > JavaScript, which is, I suppose,

Re: forums, mailing lists and other tools

On 01/18/2018 12:45 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote: If an organization like FSFE wants to know that the software, dependencies and build tools are all really free software then the "shortcut" to take is to use a Debian package because then you know somebody has checked all those things. Discourse i

Re: forums, mailing lists and other tools

On 18/01/18 13:10, Carsten Agger wrote: > > > On 01/18/2018 12:45 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote: > >> If an organization like FSFE wants to know that the software, >> dependencies and build tools are all really free software then the >> "shortcut" to take is to use a Debian package because then you

Re: forums, mailing lists and other tools

> On 18/01/18 12:14, Carsten Agger wrote: > >> 2. However, I find containers to be black magic. How can you trust them >> to be 100% free software if you don't build them yourself? I honestly >> don't know if Debian's packaging model is a perfect fit for distributing >> JavaScript, which is, I sup

Re: breaking bad habits like Doodle and Facebook with, plugins?

Le 18/01/2018 à 12:41, Carmen Bianca Bakker a écrit : I don't find this argument very strong at all. What about a man's rights to hold slaves? What about a man's rights to sell oneself into slavery? I am aware that the comparison isn't 100% apt, but it relies on the same core argument: People

Re: breaking bad habits like Doodle and Facebook with, plugins?

> I don't find this argument very strong at all. I agree that is is not axiomatic under all conditions, and is only salient in restricted circumstances - for example when FS adviocates attempt to manipulate computer users towards software they believe is better (ie/ free software) or prevent pe

Re: forums, mailing lists and other tools

I see this JS issue as somewhat more problematic than it is, perhaps because I'm too much in the website visitor/guest side? :D These are the notes I have taken so far on the subject: 1. most web developers nowadays don't have stablished a standard as to how to display copyright and license no

Re: breaking bad habits like Doodle and Facebook with, plugins?

Using technological measures to purposely prevent someone to use non-free software, or to connect to sites not friendly to free/libre software, if and only if for the sake of "keeping software freedom" is indeed problematic. This paragraph must not be confused with: - not recommending a given item

Re: breaking bad habits like Doodle and Facebook with, plugins?

On 18/01/18 13:06, Stephane Ascoet wrote: > These are two of the main differences between libre software > advocacies(Linus Torvalds and Eric Raymond for the first, RMS for the > second) and I think it would be hardly solved now and here.. I think the Torvalds / RMS split is an example of this inte

Re: forums, mailing lists and other tools

> The client-side Javascript to me is not a relevant issue anymore since JS is > an open standard and browsers are sandboxed these days. Hi I'd like to disagree with this statement. Mandating javascript is a problem for several reasons: * Webbrowsers have gotten enormously complex, and not

Re: breaking bad habits like Doodle and Facebook with plugins?

On Wednesday 17. January 2018 11.56.21 Daniel Pocock wrote: > > One thing that comes to mind: are there browser plugins and Thunderbird > email plugins that can help people avoid visiting or linking to things > like Facebook, Meetup, Twitter and Doodle? I'm not talking about giving > electric sho

Re: forums, mailing lists and other tools

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 04:34:50PM +0100, marc wrote: > > The client-side Javascript to me is not a relevant issue anymore since JS > > is an open standard and browsers are sandboxed these days. > > I'd like to disagree with this statement. I fully agree with Marc here. I would also like to add

Re: forums, mailing lists and other tools

On 01/18/2018 06:32 PM, Paul Hänsch wrote: On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 04:34:50PM +0100, marc wrote: The client-side Javascript to me is not a relevant issue anymore since JS is an open standard and browsers are sandboxed these days. I'd like to disagree with this statement. I fully agree with

Re: forums, mailing lists and other tools

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 07:27:19PM +0100, Carsten Agger wrote: > Technically, with browser plugins, if the JavaScript is available in a > non-minimized form, it /is/ possible to modify it as it runs in your > browser. If you interact with a number of specific sites, you could even > program these m