Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-01.txt

2009-04-24 Thread Paul Hoffman
Thanks, Paul. At 11:32 AM -0400 4/24/09, Paul Wouters wrote: So it seems to me that using 1024 bit RSA keys for ZSK, and 2048 bit keys for KSK, assuming RFC 4641 rollover periods, are still many orders of magnitude safe for our use within the DNSSEC realm. In fact, it seems RFC4641, as written in

Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-01.txt

2009-04-24 Thread Jelte Jansen
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Hoffman wrote: At 11:32 AM -0400 4/24/09, Paul Wouters wrote: So it seems to me that using 1024 bit RSA keys for ZSK, and 2048 bit keys for KSK, assuming RFC 4641 rollover periods, are still many orders of magnitude safe for our use within

Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-01.txt

2009-04-24 Thread Evan Hunt
That is fine, but so is 1024 bit KSKs. The text in RFC 4641bis makes it clear that KSKs should be rollable in case of an emergency; the effort to do so is greater, but not that much greater, than rolling a ZSK. Considering the necessity of getting new DS/DLV records into the parent/DLV zones

Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-01.txt

2009-04-24 Thread Edward Lewis
At 9:42 -0700 4/24/09, Paul Hoffman wrote: a) KSKs longer than ZSKs because KSKs are thought of as needing to be stronger b) KSKs the same strength as ZSKs because neither should be weak enough to be attacked I prefer (b), but (a) keeps coming up in this discussion. The reason (a) is held

Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-01.txt

2009-04-24 Thread Paul Wouters
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009, Evan Hunt wrote: a) KSKs longer than ZSKs because KSKs are thought of as needing to be stronger b) KSKs the same strength as ZSKs because neither should be weak enough to be attacked I prefer (b), but (a) keeps coming up in this discussion. It's a little imprecise, but

Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-01.txt

2009-04-24 Thread Joe Abley
On 24 Apr 2009, at 16:03, Paul Wouters wrote: I don't see a cryptographic reason for Paul Hoffman's I'd like the keys to be of equal size. Unless you'd argue that the KSK could easilly also be 1024bit, and that the additional 11 months of validity of the KSK is negligable compared to the

Re: [DNSOP] dns data exchanged between host and local dns-sever

2009-04-24 Thread David Conrad
Ed, On Apr 23, 2009, at 9:52 AM, Edward Lewis wrote: I figure stub resolvers were needed when cpu/bandwidth/memory were a bit more expensive than now. It seems a shame to constrain our architecture to the '80s... OTOH, for the one of the same reasons DHCP is so popular, that is

Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-01.txt

2009-04-24 Thread Paul Hoffman
At 7:53 PM -0400 4/24/09, Joe Abley wrote: It seems fruitless to debate whether 1024 bits is sufficient if there's no real cost to just choosing (say) 4096 bits and avoiding the discussion. Please read the text: larger keys incur a real cost to people validating. --Paul Hoffman, Director --VPN

Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-01.txt

2009-04-24 Thread Joe Abley
On 24 Apr 2009, at 21:17, Paul Hoffman wrote: At 7:53 PM -0400 4/24/09, Joe Abley wrote: It seems fruitless to debate whether 1024 bits is sufficient if there's no real cost to just choosing (say) 4096 bits and avoiding the discussion. Please read the text: larger keys incur a real cost

Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-01.txt

2009-04-24 Thread Paul Hoffman
At 9:46 PM -0400 4/24/09, Joe Abley wrote: On 24 Apr 2009, at 21:17, Paul Hoffman wrote: At 7:53 PM -0400 4/24/09, Joe Abley wrote: It seems fruitless to debate whether 1024 bits is sufficient if there's no real cost to just choosing (say) 4096 bits and avoiding the discussion. Please read the

Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-01.txt

2009-04-24 Thread Joe Abley
On 24 Apr 2009, at 22:18, Paul Hoffman wrote: If there is a practical limit to key size due to concerns about peoples' validators running out of steam, then I think it needs to be stated clearly. Otherwise as a zone administrator my instinct will be to use keys that are as large as

Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes

2009-04-24 Thread bmanning
Yo Joe, many moons back, it was pointed out to me by some cryto folks that there is an interesting relationship btwn key length and signature duration. One could make the argument that for persistent delegations, you might want to ensure longer length keys and possibly longer

Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-01.txt

2009-04-24 Thread Paul Hoffman
At 10:25 PM -0400 4/24/09, Joe Abley wrote: My point is that given the choice between doing what is currently considered safe and exceeding what is currently considered safe by a factor of four with no additional cost to you I think many otherwise uninformed zone administrators are conditioned

Re: [DNSOP] Key sizes was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc4641bis-01.txt

2009-04-24 Thread Paul Wouters
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009, Joe Abley wrote: What benefit is there of keeping the KSK small (e.g. 1024 bits) instead of EDNS0 is a prerequisite for DNSSEC, if memory serves, so it's presumably not TCP fallback we're worried about with larger DNSKEY RDATA. I might run into some rally strange