Re: [DNSOP] draft-huston-kskroll-sentinel - naming format?

2017-10-31 Thread Paul Vixie
Joe Abley wrote: If a format is going to be specified that specifically prohibits a zone cut, doesn't it make more sense to choose one that can't possibly involve one because there are no potential label boundaries? +1. -- P Vixie ___ DNSOP mailin

Re: [DNSOP] draft-huston-kskroll-sentinel - naming format?

2017-10-31 Thread Joe Abley
On 31 Oct 2017, at 11:01, Ray Bellis wrote: > On 31/10/2017 14:56, Joe Abley wrote: > >> Perhaps I missed something, but how do you ensure that _ta is an >> empty non-terminal? > > By having that be part of the required server logic to implement the > sentinel mechanism? If a format is going t

Re: [DNSOP] draft-huston-kskroll-sentinel - naming format?

2017-10-31 Thread Geoff Huston
> On 31 Oct 2017, at 6:34 pm, Tony Finch wrote: > > Ray Bellis wrote: >> On 30/10/2017 17:40, Evan Hunt wrote: >> >>> IIRC we discussed it, and were concerned that _ta. could be cached as >>> nonexistent by servers implementing QNAME minimization. >> >> How would that happen, at least so long

Re: [DNSOP] draft-huston-kskroll-sentinel - naming format?

2017-10-31 Thread Geoff Huston
> On 31 Oct 2017, at 6:34 pm, Tony Finch wrote: > > Ray Bellis wrote: >> On 30/10/2017 17:40, Evan Hunt wrote: >> >>> IIRC we discussed it, and were concerned that _ta. could be cached as >>> nonexistent by servers implementing QNAME minimization. >> >> How would that happen, at least so long

Re: [DNSOP] draft-huston-kskroll-sentinel - naming format?

2017-10-31 Thread Ray Bellis
On 31/10/2017 14:56, Joe Abley wrote: > Perhaps I missed something, but how do you ensure that _ta is an > empty non-terminal? By having that be part of the required server logic to implement the sentinel mechanism? That said, I'm not sure this would be consistent with the draft's proposed use

Re: [DNSOP] draft-huston-kskroll-sentinel - naming format?

2017-10-31 Thread Ray Bellis
On 31/10/2017 14:34, Tony Finch wrote: > It's NXDOMAIN. (It'll also fall foul of RFCs 8020 and 8198.) > > The problem occurs if you have a validator behind a cache. The cache will > prevent downstream id._ta. queries from reaching the root, so any > downstream trust anchor variation will be los

Re: [DNSOP] draft-huston-kskroll-sentinel - naming format?

2017-10-31 Thread Joe Abley
On Oct 31, 2017, at 07:27, Ray Bellis wrote: >> On 30/10/2017 17:40, Evan Hunt wrote: >> >> IIRC we discussed it, and were concerned that _ta. could be cached as >> nonexistent by servers implementing QNAME minimization. > > How would that happen, at least so long as _ta responds like any other

Re: [DNSOP] draft-huston-kskroll-sentinel - naming format?

2017-10-31 Thread Tony Finch
Ray Bellis wrote: > On 30/10/2017 17:40, Evan Hunt wrote: > > > IIRC we discussed it, and were concerned that _ta. could be cached as > > nonexistent by servers implementing QNAME minimization. > > How would that happen, at least so long as _ta responds like any other > empty non-terminal? It's N

Re: [DNSOP] draft-huston-kskroll-sentinel - naming format?

2017-10-31 Thread Ray Bellis
On 30/10/2017 17:40, Evan Hunt wrote: > IIRC we discussed it, and were concerned that _ta. could be cached as > nonexistent by servers implementing QNAME minimization. How would that happen, at least so long as _ta responds like any other empty non-terminal? Ray __

Re: [DNSOP] draft-huston-kskroll-sentinel - naming format?

2017-10-30 Thread Evan Hunt
> I see that this draft uses a syntax similar to RFC 8145 Trust Anchor > Telemetry RFC (which uses _ta-) albeit without the leading > underscore, i.e. .ta-. > > I'd like to propose instead ._ta. > > This would allow _ta to be registered as a standalone entry in the > underscore label registry, wh

[DNSOP] draft-huston-kskroll-sentinel - naming format?

2017-10-30 Thread Ray Bellis
I see that this draft uses a syntax similar to RFC 8145 Trust Anchor Telemetry RFC (which uses _ta-) albeit without the leading underscore, i.e. .ta-. I'd like to propose instead ._ta. This would allow _ta to be registered as a standalone entry in the underscore label registry, whilst also avoid