On 27 Oct 2020, at 19:38, lists wrote:
> And which email clients can do this?
Microsoft Outlook and Mail (Windows 10 and iOS) and Apple Mail in macOS and iOS
and iPadOS, at least.
> A defacto standard needs to be adopted. If I don't provide SPF or DKIM, I am
> likely to be deemed spammy, henc
going to code my own.
Original Message
From: sebast...@sebbe.eu
Sent: October 27, 2020 5:56 PM
To: dovecot@dovecot.org
Reply-to: dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: SV: SV: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP mail
server
>>Whatever Gmail wants is essentially a defacto standard.
>>Whatever Gmail wants is essentially a defacto standard.
Gmail have solved it with a Oauth authorization scheme. Basically, first time
setting up mail, you are asked to authenticate by 2FA in a webview, then a
shared secret is established, that is used during SMTP and IMAP time.
Both Hotmail an
e
in the real world, so whatever Google wants, I comply.
Original Message
From: jtam.h...@gmail.com
Sent: October 27, 2020 3:57 PM
To: dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Re: SV: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP mail
server
On Tue, 27 Oct 2020, Sebastian Nielsen
On Tue, 27 Oct 2020, Sebastian Nielsen wrote:
Kind of stupid that there doesn't exist some common standard for 2FA that
works in email clients.
You can bodge it for HOTP/TOTP hardware token generators. Dovecot allows
custom plugins to check passwords. The plugin can take passwords of
the for
> "lists" == lists writes:
lists> Ditto this. I pay for a VPS because I don't want my home facing
lists> the internet. If the VPS gets hacked, that is as far as they
lists> get.
Same here, I do this as well.
lists> You could do a mail server on a $5 Digital Ocean or Linode VPS
lists> if yo
>>EU have very strict laws on the security of email and the requirement to
keep it archived and to ensure the data cannot get out.
No.
GDPR is very organization-specific, meaning that a small organization or
non-profit with 5 employees, don't need the same security as a 100 employee
multi-million
2020 15:57
Till: dovecot mailing list
Ämne: Re: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP mail server
On 25 Oct 2020, at 22:47, Sebastian Nielsen wrote:
> The second way, is to not have webmail at all, but instead have a
authentication gateway in browser, where you must auth with 2FA a
> On 26 Oct 2020, at 09:11, R. Diez wrote:
>
>>>
>>> I would not advice any company that is continuously being fined for
>>> breaking the law.
>
>> This is not only an overstatement, it is completely irrelevant. Given the
>> OP problem
>> statement (small business, part-time admin, newbie
>> Running an unmaintained mail server is a BAD thing.
Of course. You maintain it.
>>I think you are confusing gmail and google apps (or whatever it is called
now, seems to change all the time).
Google apps uses the same restrictions. What I recall, you can disable SPF
and DKIM checks for truste
On 25 Oct 2020, at 22:51, Sebastian Nielsen wrote:
>>> why not just point them at a hosting service like google apps, and let
>> google keep things up to date?
>
> Costs money,
Yes. That is a *good* thing. Running an unmaintained mail server is a BAD thing.
> and also the problem is that gmail
On 25 Oct 2020, at 22:47, Sebastian Nielsen wrote:
> The second way, is to not have webmail at all, but instead have a
> authentication gateway in browser, where you must auth with 2FA and captcha.
> The only purpose of this gateway, is to authenticate users with 2FA before
> their IP is whitel
ficial/acme.shThis saves you Python headaches.From: gr...@sloop.netSent: October 26, 2020 6:01 PMTo: dovecot@dovecot.orgReply-to: gr...@sloop.net; dovecot@dovecot.orgSubject: Re: Looking for a guide to collect al
First of all, I want to learn how to do it, just for fun.
If you want to do this yourself for fun, here is what I believe a good way
to do it:
1. install and configure Dovecot with one account for each user; see for
example https://doc.dovecot.org/configuration_manual/quick_configuratio
The reason there's no pretty complete how-to is because what you're doing seems
completely insane to the vast majority of people who'd look at your problem and
select your way of approaching solving it.
Yeah, you can also host your own website off of a DSL line, using a rasp-pi
connected via a
Am 26.10.20 um 21:55 schrieb Robert Schetterer:
see https://blog.sys4.de/abholdienst-fur-mail-de.html
OP considers his/her ISPs spam/antivirus filter adequat. Doing such on
his/her own burdens the setup with quite some maintainance. Perhaps
though, getmail trumps fetchmail, I don't now.
--
2. install and configure OfflineIMAP to synchronize the IMAP folders between your ISP IMAP server and your Dovecot server; see for example
http://www.offlineimap.org/doc/quick_start.html
OfflineIMAP is not the way to go. Many ISPs have very low size limits for the mailbox sizes. The one I am
PM
To: dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP mail
server
Hi all:
I am evaluating mail server solutions for a small business. The trouble
is, I am only a part-time admin and a newbie to mail servers.
Most guides I have seen are rather unrealistic: they enco
no spam/virus filtering ? Virtual suicide these days :P
On Monday, 26/10/2020 at 16:13 R. Diez wrote:
> Start of a HOWTO:
>
> 1) Install dovecot, create virtual accounts for all of your users
> 2) Install fetchmail, make it pull the ISPs IMAP and deliver locally
> 3) Install postfix as a smar
Start of a HOWTO:
1) Install dovecot, create virtual accounts for all of your users
2) Install fetchmail, make it pull the ISPs IMAP and deliver locally
3) Install postfix as a smart relay and deliver locally to locals
Feel free to fill in the details ;)
And I thought you guys had nothing e
Marc Roos skrev den 2020-10-26 15:04:
and forward- and reverse DNS records for your mailserver match.
do even googles ips confirm to this standard?
i have never seen spf helo pass from google envelope senders
hint to owner of this maillist here
Dave McGuire:
I'm sorry buddy, your credibility hit rock bottom in your first post,
and your subsequent posts aren't helping.
Have a nice day. *plonk*
Thank you for your kind words. Have a nice day, too.
First of all, I want to learn how to do it, just for fun.
Okay, that was not what you initially said. Some comments below,
nonetheless.
I will not recommend Google. Ever heard of data protection and data
confidentiality?
Your data is stored confidentially by Google, obviously. O
I too would strongly advise you to use Google Workspace (the recent new
name for G Suite, previously known as Google Apps). It's cheap, very
reliable, and has all features you can dream of, including an
autoresponder. It's unrealistic to think that it's possible to beat a
service that costs
I too would strongly advise you to use Google Workspace (the recent new
name for G Suite, previously known as Google Apps). It's cheap, very
reliable, and has all features you can dream of, including an
autoresponder. It's unrealistic to think that it's possible to beat a
service that costs
Hi,
I am evaluating mail server solutions for a small business. The trouble
is, I am only a part-time admin and a newbie to mail servers.
I too would strongly advise you to use Google Workspace (the recent new
name for G Suite, previously known as Google Apps). It's cheap, very
reliab
On 10/26/20 7:53 PM, Jochen Bern wrote:
On 26.10.20 17:45, Mihai Badici wrote:
So I guess it is not trivial to sort again all the mails and
deliver each one in a mailbox after you mixed all together in a single
catchall mailbox. Could be done for sure but it is some work to do...
Determining th
On 26.10.20 17:45, Mihai Badici wrote:
> So I guess it is not trivial to sort again all the mails and
> deliver each one in a mailbox after you mixed all together in a single
> catchall mailbox. Could be done for sure but it is some work to do...
Determining the intended recipient of a specific *
> Btw., why is an open port 25 evil if the MTA is configured correctly?
> Can you elaborate, please?
He does not know, that is why he assumes this. He first needs to aquire
some basic principles and learn, as he wrote.
I remember back in the dialup era there was a small company in Timisoara
who tried to sell this kind of solution. (They started to sell servers
after a while so I guess they didn't have much success selling their
workaround) So I guess it is not trivial to sort again all the mails and
deliver
Am 26.10.20 um 11:24 schrieb R. Diez:
Hello R, I only wrote about the incoming side - of course, you also
want to
send mail to remote users, and that includes users with an address of
…@myisp.com. They will go to the ISP and be fetched to local from there.
That is not what I had in mind. My
[...]
> I could not find anything there related to multidrop or "catch all" mailboxes.
[...]
> Nothing like that there either.
[...]
> This is a huge document with little introduction. It seems to be
> mostly about fighting spam. I did not find anything like the setup I
> described.
looks like
save money keep my private data on
a random server who knows where = insecure data.
Steve hanselman
-Original Message-
From: dovecot On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 8:30 AM
To: dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Re: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP m
There are plenty of guides available. I don't know your mother tongue,
but seeing your last name, I assume you may be speaking German. Take a
look at these German language guides:
I do speak German, thanks for the links.
https://www.it-management-kirchberger.at/manuals-tutorials/server-centos
On 10/26/20 11:24 AM, Gregory Heytings wrote:
Your data is stored confidentially by Google, obviously. Otherwise
nobody would use their services.
My keyboard is now COMPLETELY saturated with coffee. Some hit my
display this time, too.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensin
> That's nonsense. I will give one example: Airbus, the European
aerospace corporation, uses Google Workspace.
What do they store there? That is the question, maybe some irrelevant
data, I doubt if they store CAD drawings online or data that is
protected by GDPR legislation.
And even when,
On 10/26/20 11:07 AM, Marc Roos wrote:
> It's hard to imagine anyone being that dumb, but then this society
has been surprising me a lot in recent years.
If I tell some woman in the store that she is about to buy an energy
drink promoted by/having a picture of a convicted rapist. They look a
On 10/26/20 11:09 AM, Gregory Heytings wrote:
I too would strongly advise you to use Google Workspace (the recent
new name for G Suite, previously known as Google Apps). It's cheap,
very reliable, and has all features you can dream of, including an
autoresponder. It's unrealistic to think tha
I would not advice any company that is continuously being fined for breaking
the law.
This is not only an overstatement, it is completely irrelevant. Given the OP
problem
statement (small business, part-time admin, newbie to mail
servers), I do not think there is a better solution
A smal
> It's hard to imagine anyone being that dumb, but then this society
has been surprising me a lot in recent years.
If I tell some woman in the store that she is about to buy an energy
drink promoted by/having a picture of a convicted rapist. They look at
me weird and the most stupid respons
> Yes, you all want me to open ports. I'm sorry guys, but I won't
budge:
> 1) Opening a port means reconfiguring the firewall. You may find it
funny, but some non-profits have no firewall, just a standard ADSL
router. The ones that the telecom company provides often has no IP
filtering abil
On 10/26/20 10:26 AM, Gregory Heytings wrote:
I too would strongly advise you to use Google Workspace (the recent new
name for G Suite, previously known as Google Apps). It's cheap, very
reliable, and has all features you can dream of, including an
autoresponder. It's unrealistic to think tha
Besides, the way you suggest means opening a SMTP port to the outside
world. A security risk and more work at the firewall etc.
You can just allow some ip addresses of your provider to connect, not?
Nothing outside world.
Yes, you all want me to open ports. I'm sorry guys, but I won't budg
Your approach is ok but is more complicated. That's why I suggested this
setup, which is simplest but indeed need a little help from your
provider ( for no matter which provider, in fact).
On 10/26/20 4:16 PM, R. Diez wrote:
Why don't you configure all stuff internally and ask your provider t
> I too would strongly advise you to use Google Workspace (the recent
new name for G Suite, previously known as Google Apps).
> It's cheap, very reliable, and has all features you can dream of,
including an autoresponder.
> It's unrealistic to think that it's possible to beat a service that
> 26. 10. 2020 v 15:12, R. Diez :
>
> Thanks for the hint. I initially discarded Mailcow because of this:
>
> "mailcow: dockerized comes with multiple containers"
>
> The installation instructions mention that Docker Compose is required. Not
> long ago I learnt enough to launch one Docker conta
On 10/26/20 4:16 PM, R. Diez wrote:
Why don't you configure all stuff internally and ask your provider to
relay
the e-mails from and to you via "smart relay"? You will communicate
only via smtp and only with your provider,
> [...]
When you are a small business or a volunteer-run club or c
> When you are a small business or a volunteer-run club or charity, you
don't ask your provider.
> You have no leverage. You may not even be able to change provider so
easily.
Just ask, I will bet they do it. They do not need to configure that much
even I think. By default smtp servers ar
I know. I am not stating this.
-Original Message-
From: lists [mailto:li...@lazygranch.com]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 3:17 PM
To: dovecot
Subject: Re: SV: SV: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the
ISP mail server
As I previously stated the reverse pointer does not
-korte.org; dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: RE: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP mail server
you should ask your ip provider to set a proper reverse lookup for you.
If I would get a lot of spam from upcloud.host ips, I would also
consider blocking upcloud.host reverse dns
> Besides, the way you suggest means opening a SMTP port to the outside
world. A security risk and more work at the firewall etc.
You can just allow some ip addresses of your provider to connect, not?
Nothing outside world.
client2.com. Most
servers would just have a reverse pointer to host.com.
Original Message
From: m.r...@f1-outsourcing.eu
Sent: October 26, 2020 7:04 AM
To: build+dove...@de-korte.org; dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: RE: SV: SV: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP
Why don't you configure all stuff internally and ask your provider to relay
the e-mails from and to you via "smart relay"? You will communicate only
via smtp and only with your provider,
> [...]
When you are a small business or a volunteer-run club or charity, you don't ask your provider. Y
Have a look at Mailcow too, it comes with almost everything.
I’ve been running it for a year now, after many years of usin
a self-assembled stack, and it’s a bliss.
Thanks for the hint. I initially discarded Mailcow because of this:
"mailcow: dockerized comes with multiple containers"
The i
> and forward- and reverse DNS records for your mailserver match.
do even googles ips confirm to this standard?
> email does not get silently dropped or moved to spam when working with
gmail.
Gmail is dropping email on purpose?
t: October 26, 2020 3:22 AMTo: li...@lazygranch.comCc: build+dove...@de-korte.org; dovecot@dovecot.orgSubject: Re: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP mail server On 26. Oct 2020, at 11.36, lists <li...@lazygranch.com> wrote:Actually the reverse pointer doesn't have to m
Ketola [mailto:s...@ketola.io]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 11:22 AM
To: lists
Cc: Arjen de Korte; Dovecot Mailing List
Subject: Re: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP mail
server
On 26. Oct 2020, at 11.36, lists wrote:
Actually the reverse pointer doesn&#
more most likely to choose cheap.
-Original Message-
Cc: N; dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Re: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP mail
server
26. 10. 2020 v 12:15, R. Diez :
>
> I would be happy to take a pre-packaged mail server solution like
iRedMail which in
26. 10. 2020 v 12:15, R. Diez :
>
> I would be happy to take a pre-packaged mail server solution like iRedMail
> which includes RoundCube or whatever.
Have a look at Mailcow too, it comes with almost everything. I’ve been running
it for a year now, after many years of using a self-assembled sta
What you are looking for would be a very advanced setup
> [...]
I don't think so. But we'll see!
I would be happy to take a pre-packaged mail server solution like iRedMail
which includes RoundCube or whatever.
I just need a "easy", practical guide to reconfigure it to 1) download e-mails f
You look spammy if you don't have SPF or DKIM, and hopefully both.
> [...]
I don't want to worry about spam, SPF, DNS or the lot. That is what the ISP is there for. Most of them actually do a pretty good job for very little
money in my experience. If not, you can always switch to another ISP
That way your users can create their vacancies with the ISP portal,
But then internal e-mails need to go out to the ISP,
don't they? Because, if internal e-mails get delivered locally, the
vacation autoresponses on the ISP will not trigger, will they?
Hello R, I only wrote about the inco
> On 26. Oct 2020, at 11.36, lists wrote:
>
> Actually the reverse pointer doesn't have to match. In fact this is
> impossible if you are setting up virtual accounts on one server for different
> domains. You just need to have a reverse pointer.
>
> Most email servers look to seen if the re
d
blocks those.
Original Message
From: build+dove...@de-korte.org
Sent: October 26, 2020 2:02 AM
To: dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Re: SV: SV: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP
mail server
Citeren Sebastian Nielsen :
> Because when I email to friends th
.@pamas.de
Sent: October 26, 2020 1:09 AM
To: rdiezmail-2...@yahoo.de; p...@myzel.net
Cc: dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Re: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP mail server
Hello R.,
Sunday, October 25, 2020, 11:12:48 PM, you wrote:
RD> I was hoping that there would be a
> On 26. Oct 2020, at 11.08, lists wrote:
>
> I have no problems with Gmail from Digital Ocean. But I have both spf, DKIM,
> DMARC and a reverse pointer. You need to not look spammy.
>
> One advantage to using a VPS is your IP is unique. That is you don't share it
> with a spammer. Not so
ssage
From: m.r...@f1-outsourcing.eu
Sent: October 26, 2020 1:06 AM
To: dovecot@dovecot.org; sebast...@sebbe.eu
Subject: RE: SV: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP mail
server
> and also the problem is that gmail imposes heavy spam filters and
"reputation bloc
> On 26. Oct 2020, at 11.02, Arjen de Korte wrote:
>
> Citeren Sebastian Nielsen :
>
>> Because when I email to friends that are using gmail, my mail ends up in
>> spam unless my friends put me in whitelist. Seems to vary however, and
>> seems to get better with time.
>
> In order to preven
Citeren Sebastian Nielsen :
Because when I email to friends that are using gmail, my mail ends up in
spam unless my friends put me in whitelist. Seems to vary however, and
seems to get better with time.
In order to prevent ending up in spam in GMail, it is necessary to
have working DKIM and
Till: dovecot ; sebastian
Ämne: RE: SV: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP mail
server
> and also the problem is that gmail imposes heavy spam filters and
"reputation blocks"
> meaning smaller providers with low email volumes, are put in the spam
folder, even
Hello R.,
Sunday, October 25, 2020, 11:12:48 PM, you wrote:
RD> I was hoping that there would be a complete mail server setup
RD> guide somewhere for this kind of setup. But I guess I'll have to piece all
these
RD> information snippets together.
There are plenty of guides available. I don't kno
> and also the problem is that gmail imposes heavy spam filters and
"reputation blocks"
> meaning smaller providers with low email volumes, are put in the spam
folder, even if
> they never send spam, just because their email volume is so low (ergo,
they must
> prove they don't spam before g
Amen to that!
-Original Message-
From: lists [mailto:li...@lazygranch.com]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 7:09 AM
To: Dovecot Mailing List
Subject: Re: SV: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP
mail server
Good luck with all that coding. I have four years now of
t
list :) ) in your LAN.
Original Message
From: rdiezmail-2...@yahoo.de
Sent: October 25, 2020 10:57 AM
To: dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP mail server
Hi all:
I am evaluating mail server solutions for a small busine
At 26 October, 2020 Sebastian Nielsen wrote:
>
> >> why not just point them at a hosting service like google apps, and let
> google keep things up to date?
Oh they most certainly do :)
> Costs money, and also the problem is that gmail imposes heavy spam filters
> and "reputation blocks" meaning
llect all e-mail from the ISP mail server
>>"Never use a browser for email."
I don't agree.
In fact, using a browser for email or atleast initial setup, is actually more
secure. This because SMTP/IMAP clients normally don't support 2FA, so you would
have to "hack
>> why not just point them at a hosting service like google apps, and let
google keep things up to date?
Costs money, and also the problem is that gmail imposes heavy spam filters
and "reputation blocks" meaning smaller providers with low email volumes,
are put in the spam folder, even if they ne
>>"Never use a browser for email."
I don't agree.
In fact, using a browser for email or atleast initial setup, is actually more
secure. This because SMTP/IMAP clients normally don't support 2FA, so you would
have to "hack" a solution to enable 2FA for email.
This can be made in 2 ways: Either,
At 25 October, 2020 R. Diez wrote:
>
> I am too afraid, I would not expose any such port on the Internet. Who knows
> if the mail server stays months without an update. If I am to recommend or
> implement any such mail server solution to a small business, I would insist
> that the e-mail server is
malware.
Original Message
From: rdiezmail-2...@yahoo.de
Sent: October 25, 2020 3:25 PM
To: li...@lazygranch.com
Cc: dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Re: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP mail server
> You need SPF and DKIM for your outgoing email to be accepted.
>
Hello R,
reply inline below:
Am 25.10.20 um 23:12 schrieb R. Diez:
That way your users can create their vacancies with the ISP portal,
> [...]
That's a good idea. But then internal e-mails need to go out to the ISP,
don't they? Because, if internal e-mails get delivered locally, the
vac
You need SPF and DKIM for your outgoing email to be accepted.
> [...]
I don't understand why that is the case (but keep in mind that I am a newbie).
Is it not possible to set up some internal SMTP server that only relies the e-mails to the external ISP SMTP server? The internal SMTP server w
Your goal does not sound weird.
OK, thanks for the confirmation.
The most painless way might be to fetch incoming messages from
the ISP's IMAP and deliver them to your local dovecot.
A shortened fetchmailrc would read:
poll remote.server …
user …, password …
folder 'INBOX'
fetc
ssh to
maintain my server.
Original Message
From: rdiezmail-2...@yahoo.de
Sent: October 25, 2020 10:57 AM
To: dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Looking for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP mail server
Hi all:
I am evaluating mail server solutions for a small
Hello R,
Your goal does not sound weird. The most painless way might be to fetch
incoming messages from the ISP's IMAP and deliver them to your local
dovecot. A shortened fetchmailrc would read:
poll remote.server …
user …, password …
folder 'INBOX'
fetchall
idle
ssl
mda "HOME=%T /u
for a guide to collect all e-mail from the ISP mail
server
Hi all:
I am evaluating mail server solutions for a small business. The trouble
is, I am only a part-time admin and a newbie to mail servers.
Most guides I have seen are rather unrealistic: they encourage you to
expose your e-mail serv
Hi all:
I am evaluating mail server solutions for a small business. The trouble is, I
am only a part-time admin and a newbie to mail servers.
Most guides I have seen are rather unrealistic: they encourage you to expose your e-mail server to the Internet, and hope that you have the resources
to
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