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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jay Warner
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 6:45 PM
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Excel vs Quattro Pro
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DAHeiser
"Jay Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
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> SNIP
> What is critical, nonetheless, is that most of them are initially
unaware of
> the terms, ISO9000 or Baldrige Award. A few more have heard the term,
> Six-Sigma. And these folks live in the ci
I feel sorry for the students in question, too. However, they are not as
unemployable as you suggest. I also deal with business students in a stat
class. their numeracy, as well as statistical understanding, is weak. the
stat understanding may improve with my course, or it may not.
What is cr
I feel sorry for your students if what you say is true. They just don't have
much of a future.
In today's marketplace, with the almost unbeleivable whirlwind of Six Sigma
Balck Belt (and related) activity out there in both manufacturing AND
service organizations, anyone who doesn't understand and
> "GG" == Gus Gassmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> There are plenty of reasonable FREE packages, ViSta and R come
>> to mind.
GG> That's all fine and good, but I can see kenmlin's point. Yes,
GG> excel is lousy at statistics, yes, their attitude towards
GG> errors in t
"A.J. Rossini" wrote:
> > "k" == kenmlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> k> Sorry I pissed everyone off. My argument is more relevant to
> k> teaching introductory statistics course to non-stat majors who
> k> might not have access to stat packages at their own department
>
Sorry I pissed everyone off. My argument is more relevant to teaching
introductory statistics course to non-stat majors who might not have access to
stat packages at their own department or when they leave school. I felt that
teaching Excel is beneficial in a sense that they might actually be ab
> "k" == kenmlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
k> Sorry I pissed everyone off. My argument is more relevant to
k> teaching introductory statistics course to non-stat majors who
k> might not have access to stat packages at their own department
k> or when they leave school. I f
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That has certainly been my experience. Often it is people who don't even
understand spreadsheets either.
"Ken K." wrote:
> Whenever I s
Whenever I see statistics training using Excel it immediately make me
suspect that people who don't understand/use statistics are making the
software decision.
As you said, a modern Windows-based statistical software application
(MINITAB, JMP, SPSS, etc...) has so much more to offer the user.
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I concur.
http://www.spss.com/education/
gives many options for student packages or rental.
I didn't go through the details, but if memor
this is about the most irrelevant argument i have heard ... as though the
only stat package is SAS ...
there are many excellent stat packages ... even their "student" trimmed
down versions are better that excel add ons ...
and, hundreds of institutions have cheap software purchase options ...
Why bother teaching students SAS if nobody can afford their annual license fee?
Spreadsheets works because many people owns MS Office and chances of their
using skills learned in class is greater.
Ken
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Excel is a microsoft product. Microsoft's approach is to take existing concepts
and re-package them. (e.g., MSDOS followed most of the co
Modstat is a statistical software package that does not require any
programming on the part of the user. It is completely menu driven and can
handle over 300 statistical tests and routines. It also automatically can
run and/or suggest follow up tests for further analysis. There is a one-time
"Dennis Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
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> >This is an interesting discussion, but the line between a spreadsheet and
> >stats package is not so clear-cut these days. If you look at how the
major
> >stats packages have developed over the la
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James Huntington wrote:
> Excel spreadsheet package is still head-and-shoulders above any other
> similar product in terms of ease of u
>rse?
>
>This is an interesting discussion, but the line between a spreadsheet and
>stats package is not so clear-cut these days. If you look at how the major
>stats packages have developed over the last decade, you can see how they
>have copied more and more features from Excel. In fact almost a
"Dennis Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
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> i don't know the answer to this but ... i have a general question with
> regards to using spreadsheets for stat analysis
>
> why? ... why do we not help our students and encourage our students to u
> "DR" == Dennis Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DR> i don't know the answer to this but ... i have a general
DR> question with regards to using spreadsheets for stat analysis
DR> why? ... why do we not help our students and encourage our
DR> students to use tools design
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Spreadsheets are fine for minor business/commercial data analysis. They are not
designed to be statistical packages. A package like SPSS
Dennis Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in sci.stat.edu:
>why? ... why do we not help our students and encourage our students to use
>tools designed for a task ... rather than substituting something that may
>just barely get us by?
If God had meant us to use Excel to do statistic analysis, he
there is a lot of packages that are half-way between spreadsheets and
formal programming languages: SAS, SPSS, Stata. anything is better than
spreadsheets.
On 8 Jan 2002, Kenmlin wrote:
> >i don't know the answer to this but ... i have a general question with
> >regards to using spreadsheets fo
most stat packages have nothing to do with programming anything ... you
either use simple commands to do things you want done (like in minitab ...
mtb> correlation 'height' 'weight') or, select procedures from menus and
dialog boxes
At 12:27 AM 1/8/02 +, Kenmlin wrote:
> >i don't know the
>i don't know the answer to this but ... i have a general question with
>regards to using spreadsheets for stat analysis
Many students are computer illiterate and it might be easier to teach them how
to use the spreadsheet than a formal programming language.
===
i don't know the answer to this but ... i have a general question with
regards to using spreadsheets for stat analysis
why? ... why do we not help our students and encourage our students to use
tools designed for a task ... rather than substituting something that may
just barely get us by?
we
Does anyone know if Quattro Pro suffers the same statistical problems as Excel?
Cheers. ECD
___
Edward C. Dreyer
Political Science
The University of Tulsa
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