Re: Artifacts in stats: (Was Student's t vs. z tests)

2001-04-30 Thread Art Kendall
In my experience, students benefit from the individual and group _production_ of summaries, "syndicate notes", and cheat sheets. Reviewing the summaries produced by students gives a teacher feedback on what is or is not understood, and whether the relative emphasis of the lessons _as received_ i

Re: Artifacts in stats: (Was Student's t vs. z tests)

2001-04-27 Thread Herman Rubin
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Alan McLean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Herman Rubin wrote: >> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, >> Alan McLean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >"Robert J. MacG. Dawson" wrote: >> >> > Alan McLean wrote: >> >> The p value is a direct measure of 'strength of eviden

Re: Artifacts in stats: (Was Student's t vs. z tests)

2001-04-26 Thread Alan McLean
Herman Rubin wrote: > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > Alan McLean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >"Robert J. MacG. Dawson" wrote: > > >> > Alan McLean wrote: > >> The p value is a direct measure of 'strength of evidence'. > > >> and Lise DeShea responded: > > ..

Re: p- values Was: Re: Artifacts in stats: (Was Student's t vs. z tests)

2001-04-26 Thread dennis roberts
At 10:16 AM 4/26/01 -0500, Herman Rubin wrote: >A p-value tells me nothing of importance. i agree if this means practical and of benefit say to society > It is in no way >a measure of strength of evidence. are you saying p tells you nothing? ===

Re: Artifacts in stats: (Was Student's t vs. z tests)

2001-04-26 Thread Herman Rubin
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Alan McLean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >"Robert J. MacG. Dawson" wrote: >> > Alan McLean wrote: >> The p value is a direct measure of 'strength of evidence'. >> and Lise DeShea responded: ... >There is certainly no con

p- values Was: Re: Artifacts in stats: (Was Student's t vs. z tests)

2001-04-26 Thread Herman Rubin
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Lise DeShea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Alan McLean wrote: >> ... In general, I emphasise the use of p values - in >> many ways it is a more natural way than using critical values to carry >> out a test. The p value is a direct measure of 'strength of evidence'.

Re: Artifacts in stats: (Was Student's t vs. z tests)

2001-04-26 Thread Herman Rubin
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Robert J. MacG. Dawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >"Paul W. Jeffries" wrote: > What are >> list members views on teaching students to use tables. In the computer >> age, tables are an anachronism. T

Re: Artifacts in stats: (Was Student's t vs. z tests)

2001-04-26 Thread Herman Rubin
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Paul W. Jeffries <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Robert Dawson said that one of his approaches to dealing with z test is to >treat it as a historical anecdote. I like that approach and must give it >a try. It is almost the other way around. The z test comes up as an

Re: Artifacts in stats: (Was Student's t vs. z tests)

2001-04-25 Thread Robert J. MacG. Dawson
dennis roberts wrote: > > At 11:35 PM 4/24/01 -0300, Robert J. MacG. Dawson wrote: > > > Yes. That is, in my experience, students, small dogs, and > > most white > > mice can use a t table, at least for values that actually turn up. > > Interpolating loses a few students and the mice;

Re: Artifacts in stats: (Was Student's t vs. z tests)

2001-04-25 Thread Robert J. MacG. Dawson
dennis roberts wrote: > > as for the use of t tables ... or any other ... > > 1. one issue is can the student USE the table ... that is, you specify some > from the table and you want to know if they can find it Yes. That is, in my experience, students, small dogs, and most wh

Re: Artifacts in stats: (Was Student's t vs. z tests)

2001-04-25 Thread dennis roberts
as for the use of t tables ... or any other ... 1. one issue is can the student USE the table ... that is, you specify some from the table and you want to know if they can find it 2. another issue is what the student knows about what happens in the table as df changes 3. another issue is whe

Re: Artifacts in stats: (Was Student's t vs. z tests)

2001-04-25 Thread Robert J. MacG. Dawson
"Paul W. Jeffries" wrote: What are > list members views on teaching students to use tables. In the computer > age, tables are an anachronism. The vast majority of students will never > use a t table. Were it only so...

Re: Artifacts in stats: (Was Student's t vs. z tests)

2001-04-25 Thread jim clark
Hi On 25 Apr 2001, Alan McLean wrote: > I agree - although students do need tables in (written) exams... But > we use a computer program called Tuteman in our teaching and testing, so > the natural way to find critical values or p-values is via the computer > - we use Excel mainly. In general