Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment

2007-01-18 Thread Arthur
Ivan Krstić wrote: I don't think I can actually figure out what you're saying here. I am happy to have a discussion, but that requires understanding what's being discussed; please consider rephrasing your concerns in very simple, non-philosophical terms. If it is any consolation, you are

Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment (Why Educational Technology Has Failed Schools)

2007-01-18 Thread Bert Freudenberg
Thanks Paul, I know of Steiner, we have a son who went to a Waldorf school. We choose a Montessori school for our other kids, which I like much better. Anyway, I was specifically looking for someone both knowledgable in education *and* technology, and writing about the intersection of the

Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment

2007-01-18 Thread kirby urner
On 1/18/07, Arthur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: kirby urner wrote: Honk honk! --- goose noise AFLAK! Talk about interesting terminology ;) Art I maybe should've elaborated, when I talked about not having OLPC in my active namespace... We call our program CP4E, with an emphasis on the E

Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment (Why Educational Technology Has Failed Schools)

2007-01-18 Thread Paul D. Fernhout
I guess you have your work cut out for you then to write one. :-) Thanks for the comments on Babelfish. --Paul Fernhout P.S. I did find that John Holt's _How Children Learn_ has been translated to fourteen languages -- not sure what they are though: http://www.holtgws.com/johnholtpage.html

Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment (Why Educational Technology Has Failed Schools)

2007-01-18 Thread Bert Freudenberg
Am Jan 18, 2007 um 19:39 schrieb Paul D. Fernhout: I guess you have your work cut out for you then to write one. :-) Thanks for the comments on Babelfish. --Paul Fernhout P.S. [... links ...] I'll have a look there. I was actually hoping for a personal recommendation, but if you don't

Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment (vs. Apprenticeship)

2007-01-18 Thread kirby urner
Kirby U. here sounds like he does that. But, there is no realistic way a person can really have 30 apprentices, let alone 150 as is typical in high school (one teacher with five classes of thirty kids each). One or two apprentices is quite doable, even up to five, maybe. Much more than that,

Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment (vs. Apprenticeship)

2007-01-18 Thread Jason Cunliffe
kirby urner wrote: This might happen virtually, i.e. a protege could show up for a few minutes on YouTube from time to time, introducing some geek topic of special interest, show how it's done. Others could then chime in with their offerings, using IRC to chat about their relative merits,

Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment (vs. Apprenticeship)

2007-01-18 Thread kirby urner
On 1/18/07, Jason Cunliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ooh... *mathcasting* Nice one ! I like the sound of that Kirby. Jason Thanks Jason, though I make no claims to inventing the term. If you've spent much time on YouTube, you've started to build up a sense of the genre, at least in its

[Edu-sig] An OLPC comment

2007-01-17 Thread Arthur
Hate being the grunch. I hope the OLPC accomplishes everything it sets out to and more. What I suspect is that - having learnt something about complexity and dynamic systems from computers - that the most profound effects of the initiative will be unintended ones. Let's hope they are mostly

Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment

2007-01-17 Thread Bert Freudenberg
Hi Art, if you are interested in a serious discussion with OLPC, rather than just about OLPC, their open forum might be a better place than Python edu-sig. See http://mailman.laptop.org/mailman/listinfo You might even get a response ;-) - Bert - Am Jan 17, 2007 um 15:15 schrieb Arthur:

Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment

2007-01-17 Thread kirby urner
Grunch with a u is from Gander of Geese, saw some other funny ones, Oh drat sorry, meant Gaggle of Geese not Gander. This guy Haim (aka Zorro) on Math Forum always heckles me when I get that wrong. Here's an official government web page to help us out in the future:

Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment

2007-01-17 Thread ajsiegel
- Original Message -From: kirby urner I'll leave it to Arthur to nail down his affiliation.I am not now, nor have I ever been.Art ___ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig

Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment

2007-01-17 Thread Ivan Krstić
Arthur wrote: Particularly given this, I don't understand the embedded need, as part of the process, to the compromise on some basic ideas - normally called science. [...] Or - maybe more what he was suggesting - is that until there is empricial evidence that leads us in a certain and

Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment (Why Educational Technology Has Failed Schools)

2007-01-17 Thread Paul D. Fernhout
Art- It is funny to see the learning just in case educators crying out for more testing just in case. Like the Albany Free School, or John Holt, or The Hole in the Wall project or various other success stories relating to learning on demand which the OLPC project supports did not exist. No

Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment (Why Educational Technology Has Failed Schools)

2007-01-17 Thread Arthur
Yes, Paul: School sucks. Any kid worth his salt knows that And yes Paul: The possibilities for meaningful testing are indeed limited. Are we influencing someone to be more or less creative, more or less independent, etc. Implicit in the design of any test is our values -i.e. for what are

Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment (vs. Apprenticeship)

2007-01-17 Thread Paul D. Fernhout
Art- I think one issue is here is the difference between apprenticeship and teaching. Perhaps there is a middle position of mentoring between those too, as apprenticeship can often be exploitive, plus take many years. One of the best ways to learn a skill (like programming) might be to be

Re: [Edu-sig] An OLPC comment (Why Educational Technology Has Failed Schools)

2007-01-17 Thread Paul D. Fernhout
Laura- That's a good sentiment to use testing to see how we the tester is succeeding at communicating. I totally agree with the benefit to any presenter of feedback about whether the audience gets what they are trying to present. Refining presentations and presentation skills is important. On